No place for Murtagh in Ireland squad

Cremated

http://www.espncricinfo.com/world-twenty20-qualifier-2012/content/story/553465.html?CMP=chrome

Brave call by the selectors, Niall isn't in and Murtagh isn't in the 14. Brave call, if not a huge call.

It will also be interesting to see Joyce play T20 , I imagine an anchor role, someone to bat through the innings...

djimi

Whatever about not selecting Murtagh as he has never played for Ireland, I dont understand the logic behind not selecting O'Brien. Unless there was some rule that said he was not allowed to be selected because of his involvelent in the BPL?

Given his performance in Kenya I would have though Van Der Merwe would have earned a place in the squad?

TrueDub

djimi wrote: »

Whatever about not selecting Murtagh as he has never played for Ireland, I dont understand the logic behind not selecting O'Brien. Unless there was some rule that said he was not allowed to be selected because of his involvelent in the BPL?

Given his performance in Kenya I would have though Van Der Merwe would have earned a place in the squad?

The selectors said they wanted the same squad for the IC match in Kenya, the ODIs in Kenya, the training camp in SA and the qualifier itself. Niall was aware of this when he signed for the Bangladesh Premier League, and has said he understands and accepts the selectors' decisions.

Albert wasn't in the squad for the T20 stuff, and is first reserve for the squad. It's tough on him, as he was brilliant in the IC match, but selectors stuck with the chosen squads. His chance will definitely come.

djimi

I have to say I find that to be a rather nonsense decision on the part of the selectors wrt O'Brien. I can see what they are saying but surely as he is one of our best players and has been around the squad for a very long time they would want to get him playing whatever games he can for Ireland in the 20/20 qualification? Its not like including him with him having not played the IC game is going to cause some sort of massive disruption to the squad.

Correct me if Im wrong but isnt our first game of the qualifiers something like a fortnight after the BPL ends?

wicorthered

Agree 100% with the selectors. Niall O Brien choose playing in Bangladesh over representing his country. I believe O Brien sold out. He might say it's to improve his game but at 30 surely there's not much improvement left.

If Ireland are ever going to progress as a cricketing nation we can't have players, no matter how good they are deciding when and where they play. This is far from the first game he has missed to play for a county/club side is it. I think Ireland is way down his list of priorities.

TrueDub

wicorthered wrote: »

Agree 100% with the selectors. Niall O Brien choose playing in Bangladesh over representing his country. I believe O Brien sold out. He might say it's to improve his game but at 30 surely there's not much improvement left.

If Ireland are ever going to progress as a cricketing nation we can't have players, no matter how good they are deciding when and where they play. This is far from the first game he has missed to play for a county/club side is it. I think Ireland is way down his list of priorities.

I don't agree that Ireland is down his list of priorities, or that he "sold out", to use your phrase. He had an opportunity to play in the BPL, and he was hoping that that could be accomodated by the selectors. He was willing to play the ODIS/training camp/Qualifiers, but the selectors decided against it. I think they made the right decision, and Niall was aware of what the story was from the get-go. He issued a statement afterwards saying he understood the decision, accepted it and would be available for Ireland whenever he was next selected.

It's a problem you see the world over (e.g. the Indian players preferring IPL, Chris Gayle doing the same etc.) and it's something we will have to start coping with as we produce better players.

wicorthered

TrueDub wrote: »

I don't agree that Ireland is down his list of priorities, or that he "sold out", to use your phrase. He had an opportunity to play in the BPL, and he was hoping that that could be accomodated by the selectors. He was willing to play the ODIS/training camp/Qualifiers, but the selectors decided against it. I think they made the right decision, and Niall was aware of what the story was from the get-go. He issued a statement afterwards saying he understood the decision, accepted it and would be available for Ireland whenever he was next selected.

It's a problem you see the world over (e.g. the Indian players preferring IPL, Chris Gayle doing the same etc.) and it's something we will have to start coping with as we produce better players.

Just because other players do it doesn't make it right. Once he knew the Irish Cricket Unions stance he could of backed out of the BPL if playing for Ireland meant that much to him. He more or less ruled himself out of the qualifiers.

If Ireland qualify for The T20 world cup, I don't think he should be part of the squad! Gayle is the West Indies best player and they don't pick him!! Your coutry should come first.

djimi

Why do you feel they made the right decision? To me it feels like they are cutting off their nose to spite their face; we could have one of our better players available for the tournament that decides whether or not we play in a major tournament, but instead we decide not to let him play at all because he chose to play BPL over an IC match in Kenya?

I think the ICU are going to have to get a bit realistic about this issue. If they are going to start offering ultimatums like this to players then Id be surprised if they dont find that players choose the bigger tournaments and the payday over playing for Ireland. Its the Joyce/Morgan debate all over again; we all want to believe that playing for Ireland is the most important thing to these guys, and I know deep down it really is, but when offered the chance to play on a bigger stage with bigger exposure, against better players and for more money, most players will not turn that down. The difference in this case is that the ICU had the choice to be flexible, and allow O'Brien his chance to play BPL as well as having him back playing for Ireland in what is a very important qualifying tournament, and I just feel that they have made the wrong decision just for the sake of sending out a message or whatever their reasoning behind it was.

djimi

wicorthered wrote: »

Just because other players do it doesn't make it right. Once he knew the Irish Cricket Unions stance he could of backed out of the BPL if playing for Ireland meant that much to him. He more or less ruled himself out of the qualifiers.

If Ireland qualify for The T20 world cup, I don't think he should be part of the squad! Gayle is the West Indies best player and they don't pick him!! Your coutry should come first.

The difference is that the West Indies can afford to not select players on principle; we on the other hand really cannot afford to tell our best players that they cannot play for us (at least not for something like this). Like I said above we need to get realistic. Expecting players to pick the Intercontental Cup over a big tournament like the BPL is laughable, and we need to accept that players will not turn down opportunities like that. Its not selling out, its not turning their back on Ireland; for a player like Niall O'Brien its about him taking a chance to play in a tournament with and against the top players and to get a decent pay packet, which at 30 years of age he probably isnt going to get too many more chances to do.

wicorthered

djimi wrote: »

The difference is that the West Indies can afford to not select players on principle; we on the other hand really cannot afford to tell our best players that they cannot play for us (at least not for something like this). Like I said above we need to get realistic. Expecting players to pick the Intercontental Cup over a big tournament like the BPL is laughable, and we need to accept that players will not turn down opportunities like that. Its not selling out, its not turning their back on Ireland; for a player like Niall O'Brien its about him taking a chance to play in a tournament with and against the top players and to get a decent pay packet, which at 30 years of age he probably isnt going to get too many more chances to do.

It's not about picking the Intercontinental cup it's about picking you're country. Once O Brien knew the ICU's stance on the matter he knew he was missing the qualifiers, he still choose the BPL. Lets face it the BPL is not exactly the IPL is it? Bar Gayle there's no real current stellar players playing. O Brien isn't even getting a game over there!

Letting O Brien pick and choose sets a precedent. What happens if Stirling wants to miss internationals to play in Zimbabwe or Dockrell in Dubai? The ICU has done amazing work to create a solid platform to move Irish cricket up top the next level. If Ireland is ever going to play test cricket, whether that be in 2020 or 2030, at some point the players will have to make sacrifices. Kevin O Brien could have played in the BPL but his priority was Ireland.

If Ireland qualify and O Brien stills goes to the world cup what's to stop him missing ODI qualifiers because he knows he'll go to the world cup regardless .

djimi

I get what youre saying, Im just not sure I agree that our principles are more important at this moment in time than having our best players available. Simple question: who has lost out from this; Niall O'Brien or the Ireland team? If we dont come through this qualifying tournament and dont make it to the 20/20 WC then who has lost out? Not that I think he alone will be the difference between us qualifying or not qualifying but do you get my point?

wicorthered

I think both have lost out. At 30 Niall mightn't have many major international tournaments left, especially with the ICC not too keen on including associates. Obviously Ireland are a better team when Niall plays but he isn't so we'll move on.

Looking at Irish cricket short term, ya maybe he should have been accommodated but long term I think it's the right decision.

BTW I think Murtagh should have been included now that he's eligible. But like O Brien he needs to show long term commitment!!

kryogen

Eh, should I possibly pick now to point out that O Brien could actually have 10 years left in him? he will have at least 5 or 6 at a minimum, plenty of time for him to play for Ireland, you cannot fault him for his decision, you have got to do whats right for you and your family. Playing the BPL gave him a nice pay packet and really shouldnt have interfered with the qualifiers, the board has taken the decision to use the same squad.

Thats their choice, as has been said already, Van Der Merwee isnt in the squad either and based on performance he should be, the board could pick him, they are not though.

I understand their decision but I cant say I agree with it on either player tbh. O Briend shouldnt be punished for what he did, and VDM shouldnt be discounted from the qualifiers regardless of how well he plays.

TrueDub

kryogen wrote: »

Thats their choice, as has been said already, Van Der Merwee isnt in the squad either and based on performance he should be, the board could pick him, they are not though.

I understand their decision but I cant say I agree with it on either player tbh. O Briend shouldnt be punished for what he did, and VDM shouldnt be discounted from the qualifiers regardless of how well he plays.

Albert's position is much less clear-cut - he was the second spinner in a side that only ever expected to play one. He was brought in and grabbed his chance, fair play to him, but one match doesn't mean you reshuffle everything.

And he hasn't been discounted - he's a non-travelling reserve, meaning any injury could see him on his way to SA or SL overnight.

wicorthered

kryogen wrote: »

Eh, should I possibly pick now to point out that O Brien could actually have 10 years left in him? he will have at least 5 or 6 at a minimum, plenty of time for him to play for Ireland

The next ODI world cup is 2015, the next one again is 2019. So that's 2 50 over world cups he might be involved in. In 2019 he'll be 37 so will he even be about?? Are associates guaranteed any spots in 2019? They're lucky to have them for 2015. So there's a good chance he has 1 50 over world cup in him.

T20 world cups are more frequent. Again however the ICC are reluctant to give many places to associates. If Ireland qualify for 2011 will he be granted a place having missed the qualifiers? Joyce, Johnson, Cusack, White and Mooney are not exactly spring chickens. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dockrell and Stirling play for England, so by the time 2013 rolls round will Ireland still be the associate powerhouse? If the ICC keeps the numbers of associates low Ireland could struggle to qualify!

10 years ago no one predicted Kenyan cricket would be in it's current state. They were closer to test status than Ireland are. So it's possibly a golden age for Irish cricket. If Irish cricket continues to prosper, it'll be because of talented youngsters emerging. Will a 34-35 year old Niall O' Brien be able to keep with them? Who knows maybe he will or maybe he won't.

So I'll stick to my point he mightn't have many major international tournaments in him! I hope he has lots left because that'll mean we're still doing well. But he shouldn't take his national team for granted!

TheDrog

I think they did the right thing by not having Murtagh in the squad straight away, he needs to show he'll be around first.

The Niall O'Brien thing is disppointing because I think we really do need him for this tournament but I do understand why he did it.

I'm worried though about only having one frontline spinner, there's a good chance the wickets will be spin friendly and Dockrell and the part timers might not be enough

SD7792

I must say some of the points made in this thread have been absolutely ridiculous. Comparing Niall O Brien to the Gayle situation and saying he's betrayed his country?

Even though his reasoning may have been slightly more selfish, I see Nobby playing in the BPL as something positive. Hopefully this will lead to IPL contracts in the near future and if the BCCI see Indians taking a liking to Irish players then, who knows, we might get the odd ODI in the sub continent.

On the issue of the Irish T20 squad I think the selectors were right not to bring in Albie or Murtagh for the sake of team unity etc. However I feel they've made a mistake by leaving out NOB.

He's proven himself as one of Ireland's finest players and as somebody above said, it's hardly as if he's a relative newcomer who might upset squad dynamics. Not to mention that he will be in T20 mode following the BPL and the only player to have practice in the sub continent conditions since the World Cup this time last year..