Emergency Services Driving and Parking

PCPhoto

Right .... First and foremost I do not intend for this to be an attempt to bash the emergency services - they have a difficult job at the best of times and I regularly see some of the scum they have to deal with...and they are expected to treat them as human (my personal opinion is that these scumbags are sub-human).

....but (and there has to be a but in this case)

In the last week I have experienced two events which annoyed me:

1. Gardai parked in a disabled bay (when there were loads of empty spaces in the car park)

2. A Fire Engine taking an illegal right turn (going across traffic).... while using lights/sirens (perfectly legal if they were en route to an emergency)....but this particular time I noticed the engine/truck/van go down the street and stop in traffic lights and wait for lights to change(so clearly the emergency was not that important - if it ever existed)

Is there any point in complaining to the Garda Ombudsman/Fire Dept about these..... The Gardai are supposed to be enforcing the traffic laws yet they are regularly flouting the law (I can give daily examples of stuff that I have witnessed - I work near a Garda Station so see quite a lot)

Ps. in both events I have images to back-up my claims

Hooch

PCPhoto wrote: »

Right .... First and foremost I do not intend for this to be an attempt to bash the emergency services - they have a difficult job at the best of times and I regularly see some of the scum they have to deal with...and treat as a person.

....but (and there has to be a but in this case)

In the last week I have experienced two events which annoyed me:

1. Gardai parked in a disabled bay (when there were loads of empty spaces in the car park)

2. A Fire Engine taking an illegal right turn (going across traffic).... while using lights/sirens (perfectly legal if they were en route to an emergency)....but this particular time I noticed the engine/truck/van go down the street and stop in traffic lights and wait for lights to change(so clearly the emergency was not that important - if it ever existed)

Is there any point in complaining to the Garda Ombudsman/Fire Dept about these..... The Gardai are supposed to be enforcing the traffic laws yet they are regularly flouting the law (I can give daily examples of stuff that I have witnessed - I work near a Garda Station so see quite a lot)

Ps. in both events I have images to back-up my claims

I can only offer opinions firstly.

In regards the AGS issue, there is no point in complaining to the GSOC as AGS members are exempt, but you could complain to the local supt and outline the issue. I totally agree in regards disabled bays, I have zero tolerance for people in them. If parked in them your getting towed, if stopped in them your getting a ticket....simply no excuse. Im not taking the moral high ground but most Gardaí would rather double park than park in a disabled bay. Its down right selfish and rude.

In regards the Fire Service my only suggestion is they could have been going to a fire and were cancelled on route. Happens us all the time. Looks terrible but what else do we do when cancelled......at it seriously ALWAYS happens at lights!!:)

source

PCPhoto wrote: »

Right .... First and foremost I do not intend for this to be an attempt to bash the emergency services - they have a difficult job at the best of times and I regularly see some of the scum they have to deal with...and they are expected to treat them as human (my personal opinion is that these scumbags are sub-human).

....but (and there has to be a but in this case)

In the last week I have experienced two events which annoyed me:

1. Gardai parked in a disabled bay (when there were loads of empty spaces in the car park)

2. A Fire Engine taking an illegal right turn (going across traffic).... while using lights/sirens (perfectly legal if they were en route to an emergency)....but this particular time I noticed the engine/truck/van go down the street and stop in traffic lights and wait for lights to change(so clearly the emergency was not that important - if it ever existed)

Is there any point in complaining to the Garda Ombudsman/Fire Dept about these..... The Gardai are supposed to be enforcing the traffic laws yet they are regularly flouting the law (I can give daily examples of stuff that I have witnessed - I work near a Garda Station so see quite a lot)

Ps. in both events I have images to back-up my claims

Search function mate, this topic has been done to death here.

But I will say emergency services are exempt from all road traffic legislation, except drunk driving and dangerous driving while acting as part of their duty.

You don't know why the Garda car was parked in the disabled spot, I don't condone it but we do t know why they parked there, I'm sure they had a very good reason and as for the fire engine it often happens that units get stand down calls while on the way to an emergency.

PCPhoto

I was not aware GSOC/AGS members were exempt from illegal parking - I understood while in the course of duty members are exempt from ROTR, but these members were at a premises which would not or are extremely unlikely to have any need to call AGS....the only reason being that a shoplifter/robbery was taking place and the members left without a suspect so I would suggest they were not on official duty.

@source .... I was not aware that Emergency Services might get calls cancelling the emergency and it could be a reason for what I witnessed.....as for the search function, I wanted to discuss what I witnessed and ask other peoples opinions and didn't want to jump on someone elses thread.

@source ... any chance you could give me examples of why a member would/could park in a disabled bay - when there were loads of spaces a bit further away from the door....the place in question ..if it makes a difference is a Garden Center.

Gareth2011

When I was driving vans I was in athlone and I was going to park in a loading bay as I was unloading and loading stock so I was legally entiled to do so. Upon getting there there is a ordinary ford mondeo in it parked smack bam in the middle so I try to go in behind him. The driver can see me trying to get in behind him but does he move nooooooo. I end up tipping a lampost im trying to squeeze in that much so I move off and park further down the road. I walk back up and I walk over to the driver and ask him why didn't move up when he could see me trying to get in behind him. He spouts out he is a garda on duty. I said like **** you are your here waiting for your wife to come out with her shopping. He says to me "come here you" and shows me his badge and says if I keep it up il be arrested. I said yeah right and walked off and he got back into his car. And guess what, sure enough a woman walks out minute after with her shopping bags and into the car and off they go.

Was this guy in the wrong? Because he sure as hell wasn't in the right just because he was a guard especially when he could have moved up literally 5 foot to let me in and not been such a prick parking in a loading/unloading bay waiting for his fcuking girl to come out with her shopping.

are you serious

I'm not saying this is the reason for parking in a disabled bay but picture the scenario of the gardaí possibly responding to a panic alarm in the garden centre... In honesty do you really think the member is going to bother checking where he is parking while stopping the car?

Calls are constantly cancelled when on the way with lights, some times there could be other members at scene and they cancel everyone else, some times alarms go off staff then call to cancel, there are a 101 reasons why on the way you could get cancelled to go to a call.

esf2012

PCPhoto wrote: »

I was not aware GSOC/AGS members were exempt from illegal parking - I understood while in the course of duty members are exempt from ROTR, but these members were at a premises which would not or are extremely unlikely to have any need to call AGS....the only reason being that a shoplifter/robbery was taking place and the members left without a suspect so I would suggest they were not on official duty.

They were in a Garda car so they were either

A, on duty or
B, stole it

which do you think it was?

Bosh

And around and around we go again....

PCPhoto

esf2012 wrote: »

They were in a Garda car so they were either

A, on duty or
B, stole it

which do you think it was?

As I mentioned earlier I suspect they were on duty but were not called to the Garden Centre.... mainly because I cannot think of any other reason for them to be called to a garden centre other than a shoplifter or an attempted robbery.....the place in question has a large car-park so they should have been plenty of spaces for them to park in.

What I'm wondering is ...is there any point in me complaining to the ombudsman ? (Yes its a trivial matter - parking in a disabled bay - trivial to most except those that require disability parking ...but its the attitude of doing so which irritates me, as I also mentioned I work near a Garda Station and regularly see Gardai breaking traffic laws (I cant tell if they are on duty or not.)

my issue is .... what's the point in reporting it to the ombudsman when the gardai will come up with an excuse/reason for being there which may or may not be true but it will be accepted..... Personally I think that more and more people should report "trivial" things like this in the hope that the ombudsman will investigate.....I get irritated that the attitude of "we enforce the law so we make the rules" seems to appear when dealing with "some" members....the vast majority adhere to the laws but when the laws are broken the gardai "do a catholic church" and push the blame around and blame everyone but themselves.

PCPhoto

garkane wrote: »

I'm not saying this is the reason for parking in a disabled bay but picture the scenario of the gardaí possibly responding to a panic alarm in the garden centre... In honesty do you really think the member is going to bother checking where he is parking while stopping the car?

Calls are constantly cancelled when on the way with lights, some times there could be other members at scene and they cancel everyone else, some times alarms go off staff then call to cancel, there are a 101 reasons why on the way you could get cancelled to go to a call.

Is there any way of me checking with the Gardai if a panic alarm was set off by someone in the Garden Centre at the time/date in question ....I'd like to check it out so that I can rule it out - any other scenarios which the Gardai could have reason to be in a garden centre ? if this scenario is true then there's no reason to report the matter ...if it is not true then, its time to look for another reason or assume they were abusing their job and should be reported to the ombudsman and/or Super.

I cant remember if the members had purchases with them or not when leaving - so I will assume they didn't, they were exiting the building as I was entering.

Bosh

Anyway, even GSOC aren't bothered anymore...

Here

Terrontress

PCPhoto wrote: »

garkane wrote: »

I'm not saying this is the reason for parking in a disabled bay but picture the scenario of the gardaí possibly responding to a panic alarm in the garden centre... In honesty do you really think the member is going to bother checking where he is parking while stopping the car?

Calls are constantly cancelled when on the way with lights, some times there could be other members at scene and they cancel everyone else, some times alarms go off staff then call to cancel, there are a 101 reasons why on the way you could get cancelled to go to a call.

Is there any way of me checking with the Gardai if a panic alarm was set off by someone in the Garden Centre at the time/date in question ....I'd like to check it out so that I can rule it out - any other scenarios which the Gardai could have reason to be in a garden centre ? if this scenario is true then there's no reason to report the matter ...if it is not true then, its time to look for another reason or assume they were abusing their job and should be reported to the ombudsman and/or Super.

I cant remember if the members had purchases with them or not when leaving - so I will assume they didn't, they were exiting the building as I was entering.

It is not up to you to decide whether it warrants investigating. All you can do is tell the GSOC and if they decide it is worth looking at then they can check out panic alarms and things like that.

Of course, if they were not there on official business then there is the question of what they are doing there while being paid from the public purse so be careful which can of worms you open.

Vikings

PCPhoto wrote: »

Is there any way of me checking with the Gardai if a panic alarm was set off by someone in the Garden Centre at the time/date in question ....I'd like to check it out so that I can rule it out - any other scenarios which the Gardai could have reason to be in a garden centre ? if this scenario is true then there's no reason to report the matter ...if it is not true then, its time to look for another reason or assume they were abusing their job and should be reported to the ombudsman and/or Super.

I cant remember if the members had purchases with them or not when leaving - so I will assume they didn't, they were exiting the building as I was entering.

Plenty of different scenarios. Taking a statement from a staff member, enquiring about CCTV, following a known criminal into the place... take your pick. It's police work at the end of the day and it's not always in black and white. Why always assume the worst?

Now if the were carrying out a bag of soil and some geraniums then I would be asking questions but they could have been doing any number of different scenarios of official business.

Gareth2011

Me thinks there is a victor meldrew inside PC wanting to get out

PCPhoto

Vikings wrote: »

Plenty of different scenarios. Taking a statement from a staff member, enquiring about CCTV, following a known criminal into the place... take your pick. It's police work at the end of the day and it's not always in black and white. Why always assume the worst?

Now if the were carrying out a bag of soil and some geraniums then I would be asking questions but they could have been doing any number of different scenarios of official business.

maybe because I try to follow the rules of the road, I would hope that those who enforce the laws should lead by example and not abuse their position.

on the flipside I thought I'd throw in there that it was great to see two sets of Gardai on the N4/Chapelizod bypass yesterday catching people driving in the bus lane at rush hour.

two batches of Gardai - so the people that jumped into the bus lane after passing the first guy were caught....well done to the Gardai there, considering sending a letter to the local station to congratulate them for their efforts and that I hope to see them out more often.

PCPhoto

Gareth2011 wrote: »

Me thinks there is a victor meldrew inside PC wanting to get out

I'm beginning to think similar (I will definitely be a curtain twitcher when I'm older/retired)

I do also think that because so many of the people reading on this forum will be members of the ES and Gardai - who want to protect their own.

Celticfire

PCPhoto wrote: »

2. A Fire Engine taking an illegal right turn (going across traffic).... while using lights/sirens (perfectly legal if they were en route to an emergency)....but this particular time I noticed the engine/truck/van go down the street and stop in traffic lights and wait for lights to change(so clearly the emergency was not that important - if it ever existed)

Nice of you to assume that it was illegal....

There's not a chance in hell that anyone driving a Fire appliance would casually turn on the light for the craic and cut illegally across traffic. If you hit someone or they hit you and you haven't been dispatched by control to an incident your ass is grass..

So to address you second point regarding sitting at the lights, sometimes it's more dangerous especially at a big junction or if traffic is backed up to try to force your way through. People panic when a big truck is on their bumper with lights and sirens blazing. The last thing you want to cause is an unnecessary accident.

That's of course if an incident ever existed :rolleyes:

bluetop

PCPhoto wrote: »

Is there any way of me checking with the Gardai if a panic alarm was set off by someone in the Garden Centre at the time/date in question ....I'd like to check it out so that I can rule it out - any other scenarios which the Gardai could have reason to be in a garden centre ? if this scenario is true then there's no reason to report the matter ...if it is not true then, its time to look for another reason or assume they were abusing their job and should be reported to the ombudsman and/or Super.

I cant remember if the members had purchases with them or not when leaving - so I will assume they didn't, they were exiting the building as I was entering.

I cannot believe this guy, are you for real checking to see if there was a call or not, who are you the Garda snoop or what, this has gone around the clock yet again we have the same nonsense yet again, and prob from the same nutter that put the other post up as well, best thing to do is ignore this guy and his post, or else one of the mods close this topic, as this has been flogged to death, we all know the emergency services are exempt from parking while executing their duties, and as AGS are on duty technically 24/7 should not be a problem. PCPhoto get a life m8, there is other things you could do beside watching the local emergency services, how about doing some snooping on the people that need locking up, maybe they would appreciate you posting about them.

kub

PCPhoto wrote: »

I was not aware GSOC/AGS members were exempt from illegal parking - I understood while in the course of duty members are exempt from ROTR, but these members were at a premises which would not or are extremely unlikely to have any need to call AGS....the only reason being that a shoplifter/robbery was taking place and the members left without a suspect so I would suggest they were not on official duty.

@source .... I was not aware that Emergency Services might get calls cancelling the emergency and it could be a reason for what I witnessed.....as for the search function, I wanted to discuss what I witnessed and ask other peoples opinions and didn't want to jump on someone elses thread.

@source ... any chance you could give me examples of why a member would/could park in a disabled bay - when there were loads of spaces a bit further away from the door....the place in question ..if it makes a difference is a Garden Center.

PC, I might be able to asist you with your recent observation of a patrol car parked in a loading bay outside a garden centre.

You may be aware that there is a huge shortage of vehicles in AGS fleet. On that particular day, some other members asked to borrow the patrol car for a few minutes, while the regular car crew were on their break.
These lads needed to borrow the car as they needed to go and get some refreshments themselves, you see, they are members of the special branch....:D

bluetop

kub wrote: »

PC, I might be able to asist you with your recent observation of a patrol car parked in a loading bay outside a garden centre.

You may be aware that there is a huge shortage of vehicles in AGS fleet. On that particular day, some other members asked to borrow the patrol car for a few minutes, while the regular car crew were on their break.
These lads needed to borrow the car as they needed to go and get some refreshments themselves, you see, they are members of the special branch....:D

Hope ya brought treesare green back something nice as well, we all know what the branch are like for parking they would park on a twig

sgt.bilko

Just on a side note, a Dublin Fire Brigade response car was in a bad accident at Foxrock tonight.

Hope the guys are ok as it didn't look great according to a colleague of mine.

kub

bluetop wrote: »

Hope ya brought treesare green back something nice as well, we all know what the branch are like for parking they would park on a twig

And of course, if it was a branch car in the first instance, there would be no Thread at all.

So what ya reckon? a future clamper, warden or tax inspector?

bluetop

PCPhoto wrote: »

I was not aware GSOC/AGS members were exempt from illegal parking - I understood while in the course of duty members are exempt from ROTR, but these members were at a premises which would not or are extremely unlikely to have any need to call AGS....the only reason being that a shoplifter/robbery was taking place and the members left without a suspect so I would suggest they were not on official duty.

@source .... I was not aware that Emergency Services might get calls cancelling the emergency and it could be a reason for what I witnessed.....as for the search function, I wanted to discuss what I witnessed and ask other peoples opinions and didn't want to jump on someone elses thread.

@source ... any chance you could give me examples of why a member would/could park in a disabled bay - when there were loads of spaces a bit further away from the door....the place in question ..if it makes a difference is a Garden Center.

New this guy was looking for a story, pity he did not get what he was looking for, another media guru looking for a break, at the expense of the emergency services.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58427105&postcount=8

Kub try media giant on the backs of the ES services !!

bluetop

You wont believe this guy he has just opened another thread with the exact same post, what a nob, think he really needs to get a life and get out more, and not twitching the curtains every time he sees a ESV passing or parking

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77122824

kub

Well spotted Bluetop, I see the moaner did not even get one favourable response on that thread either.

Just goes to prove, they can see him for what he is.

SerialComplaint

Vikings wrote: »

Plenty of different scenarios. Taking a statement from a staff member, enquiring about CCTV, following a known criminal into the place... take your pick.

In two out of those three scenarios, there is no reason to park in a disabled parking bay, other than arrogance and laziness of course.

kub wrote: »

Well spotted Bluetop, I see the moaner did not even get one favourable response on that thread either.

Let's hope you're not involved in gathering evidence for a living.

PCPhoto wrote: »

I do also think that because so many of the people reading on this forum will be members of the ES and Gardai - who want to protect their own.

Oh it's more than just 'protecting their own'. They really don't like the possibility that people will stand up to them, or ask legitimate questions. They want to keep you downtrodden, tugging your forelock and saying 'Yes Guard No Guard Thank you Guard'. Unfortunately, they are shortsighted enough to think that this is best way to enhance the reputation and credibility of the Gardai.

kub

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Let's hope you're not involved in gathering evidence for a living.


Thank you for your concern, just for the record, I am not.

For your own point of view though, I pray that you are not in a position some day when some low life is scaring the Sh** out of you and you are waiting for the Gardai to arrive. But the lads have to keep going around the block because they cannot park in the disabled parking spot that is empty and just outside your door.

SerialComplaint

kub wrote: »

For your own point of view though, I pray that you are not in a position some day when some low life is scaring the Sh** out of you and you are waiting for the Gardai to arrive. But the lads have to keep going around the block because they cannot park in the disabled parking spot that is empty and just outside your door.

No need to twist the issue. No-one is objecting to use of disabled parking or any parking by the Gardai for urgent issues. Some people don't like abuse of disabled parking by Gardai for non-urgent issues. Is it really that difficult for Gardai to distinguish between urgent and non-urgent business?

goldie fish

kub wrote: »

And of course, if it was a branch car in the first instance, there would be no Thread at all.

So what ya reckon? a future clamper, warden or tax inspector?

I take great offence to that. A tax inspector actually has real power.:)

source

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Is it really that difficult for Gardai to distinguish between urgent and non-urgent business?

No it's not difficult at all, they have a radio, on which another Garda who answers a phone and takes the details of a call, relays the details to the Gardai in the car. They know from this radio message as to how urgent the call is.

The person on the street doesn't have access to this radio, so has no idea what the Gardai are doing parking where they parked. The OP is just presuming to know what is going on, when in reality he hasn't got a clue what's happening in this scenario. The only people who know what happened in this incident are those that were directly involved. They are the only ones who can correctly answer this question, all the rest of us can do is discuss legislation, best practice and the morality of the situation.

SerialComplaint

source wrote: »

The person on the street doesn't have access to this radio, so has no idea what the Gardai are doing parking where they parked. The OP is just presuming to know what is going on, when in reality he hasn't got a clue what's happening in this scenario. The only people who know what happened in this incident are those that were directly involved. They are the only ones who can correctly answer this question, all the rest of us can do is discuss legislation, best practice and the morality of the situation.

That's true, all right. Though I get the impression that some posters take considerable offence at the suggestion that a punter might possibly raise a query about the Garda parking. There is no need for people to be so defensive. If the Gardai were dealing with an urgent matter, there will be no problem. If they were dealing with a routine matter, or doing a bit of personal shopping, then they'll get their wrists slapped.