Emigration to Scotland in 1916?

Fittle

My dad was born in Paisley, Scotland in 1917, as his parents travelled there from Cavan in 1915/16. He was reared in Co. Cavan however, and moved to Dublin as a 19yr old after a family argument (about the farm) and never returned. None of our family (including my mother) ever met any of his family, despite me doing some research over the years (I've located a couple of his brothers and am trying to get in contact).

But my real question is how - or why - my dads parents might have travelled to Scotland from Cavan over 94yrs ago, and why they might have returned when he was a toddler (around 1921, I believe). Are there many records on how people would have gotten the money for travelling and so on, back then?

Any ideas?

shanew

The most common reason for people moving from Ireland was for work. Ireland didn't have the resources (coal and iron) needed for an Industrial Revolution so there were far more opportunities in England and Scotland. In Victorian times Paisley had had large textile mills which presumably required large numbers of people, and there were also several ship-yards.

As for the 'how' part of the question... there were numerous ships running services across the Irish sea.


Shane

Waitsian

My mother's grandparents left Newtownhamilton, Co. Armagh in the 1890s to move to Uddingston near Glasgow. I've found the father and his eldest son in the 1911 Scottish Census working in a coal mine, both employed as hewers (you might want to look that up; I had to!) The family returned to live in Bessbrook in the 1920s.

So the answer to your first question is work. As for the second - they would have saved for passage on a ship. I daresay my ancestors left from Newry.

pinkypinky

Fittle wrote: »

But my real question is how - or why - my dads parents might have travelled to Scotland from Cavan over 94yrs ago, and why they might have returned when he was a toddler (around 1921, I believe). Are there many records on how people would have gotten the money for travelling and so on, back then?

Any ideas?

There's no records of movements during that period - we were all the same country. Apart from personal letters, I can't think of anything that would tell you how they got the money. It would either be saving it themselves, getting it from a family member or charity (not very likely from Scotland to Ireland but possible the other way).

Victor

Fittle wrote: »

But my real question is how - or why - my dads parents might have travelled to Scotland from Cavan over 94yrs ago, and why they might have returned when he was a toddler (around 1921, I believe).

The war lead to a lot of people working in factories especially. Wages in Britain were substantially higher in Britain than in Ireland and probably more so in the case of rural Ireland. Ulster had a tradition (that continues) of people working in Scotland, especially Glasgow.

Are there many records on how people would have gotten the money for travelling and so on, back then?

I'm not sure what you mean. I highly doubt there would be bank records or the like. While people may not have been well off, the cost of travel for that distance wouldn't have been prohibitive if people were going for work, although travel home might at best be yearly.

Cavan was connected to Belfast by railway via Ballyhaise, Clones, Armagh and Portadown and there would have been ferries to Glasgow or via Larne to Stranraer.

Fittle

Thanks for your replies.

My dad was the youngest a family of 7, and apparently his parents brought the other six kids to Scotland with them for those few years.

I 'found' (although haven't made proper contact yet) two of his older brothers who are still alive, though quite elderly, through a 2nd cousin of theirs who still lives in Cavan, and she was able to tell me that they all went to Scotland, but returned after my dad was born. Both emigrated many years ago, but are still alive and 'well' (they would be 96 and 97 now, but both have large families who might be able to give me more of the history).

I am of course reminded of 'The Field' and the anger that can stay with families over feuds that happened over farms a very long time ago...my dad never mentioned his family to any of us (he died when I was 18) and my biggest regret is that I didn't push him a bit more about them.

As an aside, I had his Birthcert at one point in time, but have moved a few times myself over the years and can't find it, so would like to get it again. How do I get his BC from Paisley?

Thanks again for info.

Fittle

Victor wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean. I highly doubt there would be bank records or the like. While people may not have been well off, the cost of travel for that distance wouldn't have been prohibitive if people were going for work, although travel home might at best be yearly.

Sorry I didn't mention in my original post that his parents brought 6 kids with them, and his mother was possibly pregnant with my dad.

I just think it must have been a massive upheaval for a family of 8 to move to Scotland, for what turned out to be only 4/5 years before they came back again - and also a very expensive move! I would love to get to the bottom of why they left and was just wondering if it was a common enough practice at that time.

Coolnabacky1873

Local history publications/parish histories for the relevant area of Cavan might give some insight.

There might have been a tradition of people from your ancestors area of Cavan moving to that part of Scotland that was documented in these types of publications.

You can get some incredibly specific local information from these sources and any oral history interviews might detail how people saved for the trip, common passage routes etc..

Victor

Most people making such trips would have been unmarried 14-25 year olds and married men. However, I did see something about people bemoaning the having to have two pay for households in such situations - of course many such workers lived in crowded conditions in boarding houses, but spent much of their wages in pubs.

Fittle

Victor wrote: »

- of course many such workers lived in crowded conditions in boarding houses, but spent much of their wages in pubs.

I'm completely confused as to how that might relate to my dads family

Victor

Sorry, I'm generalising.

Bringing the family to Scotland would have meant that only one household would have to be kept, instead of two.

Waitsian

Fittle wrote: »

As an aside, I had his Birthcert at one point in time, but have moved a few times myself over the years and can't find it, so would like to get it again. How do I get his BC from Paisley?

Thanks again for info.

Here: http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/famrec/bdm.html

or here: http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/