Drivers looking the wrong way.

redzone

Has anyone else noticed this,

I have given up counting how many times this has happened to me. I'm cycling on the main road going straight ahead passed a left turn.
The motorist is coming out from the turn, so they are at a T junction.

Whether the car is turning left or right usually the driver looks to the left first then to the right as they are still moving forward.

At this point the car is on course for a collision with the cyclist as more often than not they don't see you or they get a shock when they do.It is also common for the large mirrors and A posts on SUVs hide their view of a cyclist.

I'm always pro-active and always presume the driver hasn't seen me and several times I have been proven right.

Is this just bad driving habits or is there another reason ? I'm sure you all have similar experiences!

redzone

redzone wrote: »

Has anyone else noticed this,

I have given up counting how many times this has happened to me. I'm cycling on the main road going straight ahead passed a left turn.
The motorist is coming out from the turn, so they are at a T junction.

Whether the car is turning left or right usually the driver looks to the left first then to the right as they are still moving forward.

At this point the car is on course for a collision with the cyclist as more often than not they don't see you or they get a shock when they do.It is also common for the large mirrors and A posts on SUVs hide their view of a cyclist.

I'm always pro-active and always presume the driver hasn't seen me and several times I have been proven right.

Is this just bad driving habits or is there another reason ? I'm sure you all have similar experiences!

Yup. I tend to move out two foot or three, if possible, when going by a junction which is particularly blind.

Donnelly117

I would imagine, at least it is what i do...but i look to the right, then left and right again. Could it be that by the time you see the driver they have already looked right, and then check left and right again without you noticing the first look to the right?

Wishbone Ash

It's also a problem on one way streets with contra-flow cycle lanes. Drivers turning onto the one way street tend to look only in the direction they expect motorised traffic to be coming from.

Lusk Doyle

Happened to beasty and myself earlier tonight. Damn fool nearly ruined our KOM attempts!

doozerie

It's basically bad driving. The pillars of some cars certainly can make it more difficult to see the likes of cyclists from certain angles but that should be quite obvious to the car driver so they should make allowances/extra effort when they think that is a risk on any given manoeuvre.

Any time I've been on the receiving end of this kind of behaviour my impression has been that the driver was in a hurry and/or impatient to move and simply put their haste ahead of all other considerations including safe and considerate driving. I've had motorists do it to me when I've been driving my car but those instances are quite rare by comparison which suggests to me that when it is in the driver's interest to see something (such as large object like a car that might cause them some harm/damage) they'll make the effort to see it and hold back accordingly whereas when there is something there like a cyclist that they perceive as posing little in the way of danger, they feel less compelled to make any effort to hold their position and just drive out instead. Selfish driving is usually bad driving. Thankfully not all drivers are as bad as that but there are certainly enough of them to be a problem.

nak

I see drivers look the wrong way all the time, a lot of pedestrians seem to cross the road that way too for some reason.

gman2k

It's actually a psychological action at play;
Car drivers expect to see cars on the road, and that is what the brain looks for in the image. If there is no car, the brain will think the road is clear, and the cyclists are simply not registered.
Women drivers are more at fault at similar T junction collisions, as they are often multi tasking more, and can tend to lose concentration easier than men.
BTW, these are not my theories, but are part of the training given to Fire Tender drivers...

BostonB

Donnelly117 wrote: »

I would imagine, at least it is what i do...but i look to the right, then left and right again. Could it be that by the time you see the driver they have already looked right, and then check left and right again without you noticing the first look to the right?

+1 thats what I think too. Driver scans right as they approach then left then right again.

That said even if someone head is towards you, they might be looking past you and not see you. So that no certainty either. Even a wave might be a gesture because they are the phone. Assume nothing is my rule.

You get the other scenerio too where a cyclist or driver, sees you and pulls out anyway, misjudging the speed of your approach. Most often when they are going in the same direction with you.

coolbeans

This is why i always have a decent light flashing up front no matter what the time of day. It's small and bright and I reckon it's been the difference a dozy driver pulling out or staying put on several occasions. Road positioning is critical though. If you hug the kerb approaching a junction you're asking for bother.

Kintarō Hattori

gman2k wrote: »

It's actually a psychological action at play;
Car drivers expect to see cars on the road, and that is what the brain looks for in the image. If there is no car, the brain will think the road is clear, and the cyclists are simply not registered.
Women drivers are more at fault at similar T junction collisions, as they are often multi tasking more, and can tend to lose concentration easier than men.
BTW, these are not my theories, but are part of the training given to Fire Tender drivers...

You could be right. I was hit by a driver last year, coming off of a side road and onto the main road that I was on. I was wearing a full Hi-viz jacket, the road had nothing on it apart from me. I asked her how she didn't see me and the reply was 'I just didn't see you'.

I guessed at the time that she was looking for cars, I didn't register and when she saw no cars she just moved out onto the road.

redzone

Doozerie, I think your point probably explains it the best. Impatient driving.

Gman2k, I agree with your point about what the brain expects to see. However I happen to work in the fire brigade and drive fire trucks as part of my duties. To back up Doozerie's point I don't get to many cars pulling out of junctions when a truck travelling at speed is approching.

I was never informed about women drivers at junctions while doing my training, good luck with that one

BostonB

Bigger things are generally easier to see.

Lumen

Road positioning is everything.

gman2k

Road positioning, lighting, visibility etc are very important.
But, probably the most important whether you are a driver or cyclist is to look for eye contact as you approach a car coming out from a side road.
Keep watching the drivers head and eyes, if they don't make eye contact with you, then they probably haven't seen you.

Wishbone Ash

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I was wearing a full Hi-viz jacket, the road had nothing on it apart from me. I asked her how she didn't see me and the reply was 'I just didn't see you'

Hi viz jackets are generally only effective when illuminated. If she was coming from a side road her vehicles lights wouldn't be shining on you and, as you say there was no other vehicles around, you weren't illuminated by the lights of any other vehicle either.

BostonB wrote: »

Bigger things are generally easier to see.

I used to drive artics and buses and heard the same excuses then.

Tenzor07

May sound cliched, but expect the unexpected, don't assume a car driver will/has seen you, car window pillars obstruct visibilty, and a bicycle being a small vehicle on the road does not always register on the car drivers brains, esp.when they are just looking out for other cars...

I have a 200 lumen light on flicker mode when i am cycling in traffic, certainly seems to have the desired effect, i will also move the bars side to side which seems to enhance my noticabilty on the road... Though far from being complacent I will always try and catch the eye of the driver just as i pass in case they are distracted by using a mobile/changing radio stations or dealing with passengers at the same time....

check_six

gman2k wrote: »

Road positioning, lighting, visibility etc are very important.
But, probably the most important whether you are a driver or cyclist is to look for eye contact as you approach a car coming out from a side road.
Keep watching the drivers head and eyes, if they don't make eye contact with you, then they probably haven't seen you.

After you've made eye contact, you need to try to assess if the driver who is the kind of person who will see you and pull out anyway! We've all seen it happen:

"Me see bike.
Bike slow.
Bike so slow it look like it not move, not less you look long time.
Me go now....
*CRUNCH*
...Why man on bonnet?"

On a related theme, NEVER make eye contact with pedestrians who look like they are about to cross the road in front of you. I have learned that this is the universal sign for "Leap out in front of me. My brake pads needed testing anyway!". Dark or mirrored sunglasses are particularly effective at putting enough doubt in a persons mind to not try to risk running out in front of you.

It's the same with salmon cyclists. Don't try to make them give you room to proceed by attempting "the stare" or other similar techniques (Like roaring "Gerrouddameway!"). A simple thousand yard stare into the distance as you plow along in full aero-tuck mode will make them pull in. Acknowledging them only encourages them!

studiorat

Have to agree with Trezor07 and Check, eye contact is very important. It makes it more certain that they see you.

droidus

You also have to look out for psychopaths. I was cycling North through Phibsbrough and was approaching des kellys ahead on my left, and the closest traffic to me was about 50m behind. As I went through the lights I noticed an old lady in a hatchback attempting to pull out of the car park from Des Kellys. She was edging forward and staring right at me, screaming and banging the steering wheel at (I assume) frustration as I was preventing her from pulling into the gap in traffic. I sped up and got past as quickly as I could, but for a few seconds as I passed I wondered if she was going to drive straight into me...

petethedrummer

gman2k wrote: »

Road positioning, lighting, visibility etc are very important.

Shouting helps too. Saved me a couple of times.

BostonB

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Hi viz jackets are generally only effective when illuminated. If she was coming from a side road her vehicles lights wouldn't be shining on you and, as you say there was no other vehicles around, you weren't illuminated by the lights of any other vehicle either.

Thats the reflective strips. The colour itself is intended to increase visibility during the day, when not illuminated. That said if some ones not looking at you, doesn't matter what you are wearing or how many lights you have. (A lesson I learned the hard way) . Thats why road position to get someone to look at you is so important.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I used to drive artics and buses and heard the same excuses then.

Excuse or not its a truisim. Hence the eye test chart with bigger and smaller letters.

BostonB

check_six wrote: »

After you've made eye contact, you need to try to assess if the driver who is the kind of person who will see you and pull out anyway! We've all seen it happen:

"Me see bike.
Bike slow.
Bike so slow it look like it not move, not less you look long time.
Me go now....
*CRUNCH*
...Why man on bonnet?"

On a related theme, NEVER make eye contact with pedestrians who look like they are about to cross the road in front of you. I have learned that this is the universal sign for "Leap out in front of me. My brake pads needed testing anyway!". Dark or mirrored sunglasses are particularly effective at putting enough doubt in a persons mind to not try to risk running out in front of you.

It's the same with salmon cyclists. Don't try to make them give you room to proceed by attempting "the stare" or other similar techniques (Like roaring "Gerrouddameway!"). A simple thousand yard stare into the distance as you plow along in full aero-tuck mode will make them pull in. Acknowledging them only encourages them!

LOL all so true. THough the person on the Dublin Bike this morning, decided to pull out in front of me regardless! Also a taxi, on a one way pulled right across as if to do a U- turn, only to reverse and park perpendicular to the curb. (where there wasn't perpendicular parking).

Though I'm having one of those days. I asked someone to email me a screen grab. They took the screen grab, printed it, scanned it back, in as a PDF then emailed me the PDF. Similarly a while back someone faxed me a copy of a screen grab, then emailed me to tell me they'd sent the fax. Then imagine these people on the road.

droidus

BostonB wrote: »

LOL all so true. THough the person on the Dublin Bike this morning, decided to pull out in front of me regardless! Also a taxi, on a one way pulled right across as if to do a U- turn, only to reverse and park perpendicular to the curb. (where there wasn't perpendicular parking).

Though I'm having one of those days. I asked someone to email me a screen grab. They took the screen grab, printed it, scanned it back, in as a PDF then emailed me the PDF. Similarly a while back someone faxed me a copy of a screen grab, then emailed me to tell me they'd sent the fax. Then imagine these people on the road.

OT, but I think you'll like this site: http://clientsfromhell.net/

doozerie

BostonB wrote:

LOL all so true. THough the person on the Dublin Bike this morning, decided to pull out in front of me regardless! Also a taxi, on a one way pulled right across as if to do a U- turn, only to reverse and park perpendicular to the curb. (where there wasn't perpendicular parking).

Though I'm having one of those days. I asked someone to email me a screen grab. They took the screen grab, printed it, scanned it back, in as a PDF then emailed me the PDF. Similarly a while back someone faxed me a copy of a screen grab, then emailed me to tell me they'd sent the fax. Then imagine these people on the road.

Ha! That taxi driver in particular sounds like the kind of person that would "cut out the middle man" by trying to shove the monitor through the fax machine directly, pushing harder when it met some "resistance", and would blame the resulting mess on inferior fax machine technology.

souter

I find the risk seems magnified at night. Happened to me a few weeks back, admittedly a sh!tty night weather wise, but going past 2 side roads and the first clipped my rear wheel and the 2nd pulled up in front of me with a sheepish apology at the next junction.

Ironically I'd been boasting about the latest addition to my lighting roster, but had my helmet mounted light (cheapo head torch from Argos) swiped a couple days earlier.

So immediately mounted my backup light on the helmet. The only problem is it's a bit heavy so tends to slip down, forcing me to frantically oscillate my head like a demented Apache pilot whilst trying to aim the beam at any driver coming out of a side road. It's the nocturnal variant of making eye contact.

Incidently, the 2nd driver that night is a colleague who explained, "I didn't see you - you should wear hi viz". Rather than being morally right but lying on the road I've since swapped my matt yellow jacket for an eye searing hi viz yellow jacket.

Wishbone Ash

BostonB wrote: »

Excuse or not its a truisim. Hence the eye test chart with bigger and smaller letters.

I think you've picked me up incorrectly. I wasn't implying that what you stated was an excuse but that when I drove large vehicles, other drivers used to still say "Sorry, I didn't see you".

BostonB

Ah. I getcha now. There was a video of cyclist pulling out in front of bus on stephens green here recently. If your distracted, its surprising what you don't see.

Kintarō Hattori

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Hi viz jackets are generally only effective when illuminated. If she was coming from a side road her vehicles lights wouldn't be shining on you and, as you say there was no other vehicles around, you weren't illuminated by the lights of any other vehicle either.

Indeed I'm aware I wouldn't have been illuminated by a light source. My point in mentioning it was that it should have been fairly easy to see me heading in her direction as it is a very garish colour.

Dermot Illogical

I see this regularly enough. As you pass a side road, someone will approach the junction with the main road while looking to their left. I've always thought it a bit bizarre as their nearest danger will generally be approaching from the right.
There's a variation which never fails to make me smile. It's the motorist with the iron grip on the steering wheel approaching the T junction while staring straight ahead. This one refuses to look either left or right until they're right on top of the junction and have successfully thrown out the anchors. Who knows what horrors might befall them if they were to look around?
But the one I really love is the one who approaches the junction at speed and brakes sharply. Obviously a person in a hurry. But what they don't seem to understand is that they're going to clear the junction much slower because of that approach. Traffic, especially bikes, on the main road is going to assume that if this person is stupid enough to approach a junction aggressively then they're capable of reaching greater heights. The natural reaction is to slow and cover your brakes until you're absolutely sure you know what they're going to do. Then you pass, slowly, with caution. Result? They make slow, hastily.

Bunnyhopper

check_six wrote: »

…Acknowledging them only encourages them!

This approach is actually the best argument in favour of wearing a helmet, because, as we all know, hair movement is a sign of weakness.

mikemac1

gman2k wrote: »

It's actually a psychological action at play;
Car drivers expect to see cars on the road, and that is what the brain looks for in the image. If there is no car, the brain will think the road is clear, and the cyclists are simply not registered.
Women drivers are more at fault at similar T junction collisions, as they are often multi tasking more, and can tend to lose concentration easier than men.
BTW, these are not my theories, but are part of the training given to Fire Tender drivers...

Very true
You learn this on motorcycles too
The car driver at the junction sees you but you just don't register with them and so they pull out

If I was driving an articulated lorry they'd wake up

check_six

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

This approach is actually the best argument in favour of wearing a helmet, because, as we all know, hair movement is a sign of weakness.

Indeed. Wavy hair, rolling shoulders, swively eyeballs; all to be avoided.

A good slathering of Euro Rules Approved hair gel in your golden mane will have the desired effect also!