Separation Advice

armstrongracer

Not the best start to the year.


My partner and mother to our 4 year old twins is demanding a separation. The moment this process started was the day she resigned from her job in October. Unfortunately she has a history of depression & partying and her life has followed a fairly consistent pattern of a major breakdown every 3-5 years followed by running away and 'reinventing' herself. In the past this reinvention has taken her to the UK, Australia, the USA and the West of Ireland. This time it's different, she has kids in tow.

Nothing I say or do will make her seek medical advice. Her family won't help either, she had a fairly wild past & my impression is that it was easier to let her run away than to deal with the issues, doing anything now would be an admission of guilt. So reluctantly I'm resigned to her moving out and taking the children. Financially the moment she resigned we were fairly screwed, I've a good job that I love but it's with a start-up so my pay is back to what I was on pre-2000. I take home less than €3k per month and our rent is €1450. Also my partner left her job without any safety net or savings and can't even sign on. The childrens allowance goes directly into her credit union account to pay off her car, I got rid of mine as a belt tightening exercise some while ago.

If we split access will not be an issue, she want's shared parenting and for us to live in close proximity, I'm a capable, hands-on dad and love them to bit's. The kids are very bright and high energy, in the past we had a childminder but in the three months she has been a full time mum after leaving her job, I can see the toll that looking after them all day is taking on her. Financially I think she will get a shock. I'm determined to maintain here as the family home, and a safe place for the childen should their mother's mental state get worse under the strain of living as a lone parent on social welfare. This house is an unfurnished rental, I had a house in the past and 90% of the furniture and possessions were mine from before we met. Moving everything would be a nightmare, to save €200 in rent would cost €2K in moving costs.

She wants to sort the separation out through the mediation service, rather than the courts. I'm not sure which way to go. For the sake of her and the childrens future I want her to deal with with her depression and drink problems, I feel that I can push the issue in court. Mediation is just there to work through the nuts & bolts of the split. Also there's the question of maintenance, we are not married. I only have to support the children not put a roof over her head. If I have them 50% of the time and still have to maintain a house for myself, how much would be reasonable with my current income/expenditure being so tight.

Orion

Moved to Relationship Issues

Miss Fluff

Forget about Mediation, you need to go through the Courts. You may also need to prepare yourself to have custody of the children if she is deemed unfit due to her drink problem and depression.

Taltos

I wouldn't write off mediation - but I would seek immediate legal advice on the care of your children. Leaving them with her is not a wise choice and I think based on your description you need to do everything you can to protect them.

armstrongracer

To be fair, she is a great mother and I would never try to separate her from the kids. The issue I have is that when she is partying she is a danger to herself. I've witnessed her cycling up a one way street drunk, oblivious to oncoming traffic and have had to carry her comatose out of taxis on numerous occasions. She admitted after a night out recently, to vaguely remembering some random man trying to push her into a car outside the pub. That would be shocking enough behavior for a 20 year old, let alone a 40 year old mother of young children.

She would have to do something pretty terrible for me to get custody of the kids the way courts are set against the father in this country. Depression & drinking runs in my family and the high/low manic behavior is well known to me. I was responsible for getting my sister to finally seek help for depression/drug issues. She's bipolar & since going on meds has turned her life around in an amazing way. My partners pattern of behavior is the same as my sisters was, her current 'high' after a particularly bad christmas is Yoga & green tea, she always self treats after a breakdown. She is very attractive and vain about her figure, the downside of the meds is weight gain, she's acutely aware of this through my sister and Sinead O'Connor. She would have to be forceably comitted to get her onto meds. That aint going to happen, she'll breeze into court a picture of health & happiness and I will get laughed out of the room. My only way is to protect myself enough financially to provide a safe refuge for the kids and wait until she hit's rock bottom and sorts herself out. Hopefully the children won't get caught up in the train wreck.

LegacyUser

Go to mediation. It's about sorting things out in a way that's best for everybody.

With mediation, you must check out legal advice with your solicitor and nothing is binding until you decide to sign the final agreement.

So, try it. You can always leave the process and go to court anyway.

armstrongracer

Cheers, We're booked in for mediation next week. I'd like to go in prepared so does anyone know a good family law practice in Dublin that won't charge a small fortune. Or a large one for that matter.

Abi

armstrongracer wrote: »

Not the best start to the year.


My partner and mother to our 4 year old twins is demanding a separation. The moment this process started was the day she resigned from her job in October. Unfortunately she has a history of depression & partying and her life has followed a fairly consistent pattern of a major breakdown every 3-5 years followed by running away and 'reinventing' herself. In the past this reinvention has taken her to the UK, Australia, the USA and the West of Ireland. This time it's different, she has kids in tow.

Nothing I say or do will make her seek medical advice. Her family won't help either, she had a fairly wild past & my impression is that it was easier to let her run away than to deal with the issues, doing anything now would be an admission of guilt. So reluctantly I'm resigned to her moving out and taking the children. Financially the moment she resigned we were fairly screwed, I've a good job that I love but it's with a start-up so my pay is back to what I was on pre-2000. I take home less than €3k per month and our rent is €1450. Also my partner left her job without any safety net or savings and can't even sign on. The childrens allowance goes directly into her credit union account to pay off her car, I got rid of mine as a belt tightening exercise some while ago.

If we split access will not be an issue, she want's shared parenting and for us to live in close proximity, I'm a capable, hands-on dad and love them to bit's. The kids are very bright and high energy, in the past we had a childminder but in the three months she has been a full time mum after leaving her job, I can see the toll that looking after them all day is taking on her. Financially I think she will get a shock. I'm determined to maintain here as the family home, and a safe place for the childen should their mother's mental state get worse under the strain of living as a lone parent on social welfare. This house is an unfurnished rental, I had a house in the past and 90% of the furniture and possessions were mine from before we met. Moving everything would be a nightmare, to save €200 in rent would cost €2K in moving costs.

She wants to sort the separation out through the mediation service, rather than the courts. I'm not sure which way to go. For the sake of her and the childrens future I want her to deal with with her depression and drink problems, I feel that I can push the issue in court. Mediation is just there to work through the nuts & bolts of the split. Also there's the question of maintenance, we are not married. I only have to support the children not put a roof over her head. If I have them 50% of the time and still have to maintain a house for myself, how much would be reasonable with my current income/expenditure being so tight.

Taltos wrote: »

I wouldn't write off mediation - but I would seek immediate legal advice on the care of your children. Leaving them with her is not a wise choice and I think based on your description you need to do everything you can to protect them.

Sorting this out through mediation will mean that you can get a (simpler) separation agreement, all parties agreeing to the financial side and co-owned property, and the matter of access. If it cannot be sorted out this way, you are then looking at a judicial separation. The court will see both sides of the story and make a decision for you.

In terms of what you can afford to pay, well this will be sorted out in court if you cannot agree between yourselves. You'll be required to fill out a form where you've to enter your income and your expenditure. If you have any documentation for your expenses this will help also. Try to think of literally everything, and included the expenses incurred when the children come stay with you. It doesn't matter how small or trivial, back it up. The judge will only ask you to pay what you can realistically on your wage.

Im sorry that this has happened to you OP, and I do hope she gets her act together, for the childrens sake. In a small way, she reminds me a little of myself when I was married. Please don't take this the wrong way, because the reason for her going off the wall may be completely different - but I felt trapped. This was my lot. I felt like I'd lost my individuality. I expect your boys will probably be going to school in September, so that will give her a bit of a break in the mornings. With twin boys, I would imagine that you've both had your hands full with them. One newborn + lack of sleep for parents can be a challenge for most couples, but two..

Unless you've evidence of child neglect or physical harm etc, its unlikely you'd ever have full custody. Not to say thats what you're aiming for, as you said yourself - despite her faults she is a good mother.

I'd talk to her, but be careful that it doesnt turn into a finger pointing session. Let her know that you'll be there for her, but you're worried about her and the boys. Try out the mediation, but get yourself educated on the steps that may follow in the event that you can't agree.

armstrongracer

Thanks Abi, there's some similarities there, she's never had a relationship longer than three years before this and although she has brothers & sisters was essentially brought up as an only child, which shows in her behavior sometimes. Maybe she felt stifled in a relationship but I certainly never kept her on a tight leash with respect to her mates. 5 different jobs in 6 years may be a clue to where her head's at.

Mediation may fail though, I want to play hardball and make any financial agreement subject to her seeking treatment. Which is somewhat against the spirit of the process. I'ts for her own good, however I think she'll run a mile and take the court route if I try that. In the past anyone that has tried to even discuss her issues, family included has been dropped like a stone.

Abi

armstrongracer wrote: »

Thanks Abi, there's some similarities there, she's never had a relationship longer than three years before this and although she has brothers & sisters was essentially brought up as an only child, which shows in her behavior sometimes. Maybe she felt stifled in a relationship but I certainly never kept her on a tight leash with respect to her mates. 5 different jobs in 6 years may be a clue to where her head's at.

No problem AG. The bit high-lighted is something I can associate with. I frequently changed jobs. I felt somewhat uneasy in my own life, akin to wearing shoes that didn't fit. If truth be told, I didn't know where I fit in, or what direction I was going in, other than I wasn't happy with just 'settling'. That must sound terribly selfish, Im sorry if it does. I can't relate to the drugs side of things, or having being pulled from taxi's with strange men, but I can relate to leaning to alcohol to blot things out. I have used it in the past in order to 'forget' the world I lived in, or just be not part of it for a while. I suspect thats the mode she might be in, and while all of that is not playing a part she functions perfectly well as a mother.

Mediation may fail though, I want to play hardball and make any financial agreement subject to her seeking treatment. Which is somewhat against the spirit of the process. I'ts for her own good, however I think she'll run a mile and take the court route if I try that. In the past anyone that has tried to even discuss her issues, family included has been dropped like a stone.

You've the right idea if you ask me, be prepared. Especially if even her family don't want to help her face some truths. Game face on.

armstrongracer

She initiated a conversation tonight regarding access, prior to next week's mediation meeting. Basically 2 nights every week + every second weekend. I want them more than that but she's been speaking to a solicitor and reminded me that as an unmarried father I have no access rights at all. Also, should I push for shared guardianship.

Abi

armstrongracer wrote: »

She initiated a conversation tonight regarding access, prior to next week's mediation meeting. Basically 2 nights every week + every second weekend. I want them more than that but she's been speaking to a solicitor and reminded me that as an unmarried father I have no access rights at all. Also, should I push for shared guardianship.

Can I just say I'm really pissed off for you? You seem like a nice guy, and have put up with a lot, but above all a great Dad. Yes, push for shared guardianship

armstrongracer

Talking about the nuts n bolts of access has knocked me for six, this process is just killing me. I came to fatherhood quite late in life and just love the mundane everyday stuff of being a da. I the thought of being one of those weekend fathers you see at the Zoo or McDonalds buying affection with a laser card just makes me feel so sad. I can see why so many fathers just walk away from the whole process.

I'll definately push for shared guardianship, Don't want her family laying claim on the kids should anything happen. I'm also fairly sure it would stop her from moving abroad with them, should she wish.

Orion

Do not confuse Guardianship with custody or access. Guardianship purely gives you recognition as a guardian of the child. It grants you no rights to either custody or access. You should get declared guardian anyway - it gives you rights to kids getting passports and leaving the country. It also recognises you as a parent should anything happen to her.

If she will sign and notarise a declaration of guardianship that's all that is required. If she won't the the family court will pretty much grant it automatically unless you're a convicted serial killer

Shared custody is a whole different kettle of fish. That, from the sounds of it, you will need to fight for and your gender is against you.

aidan24326

OP, to be honest if she's offering you 2 nights per week plus every second weekend that's really not bad. If she got nasty and fought you in court you might not even get that. You know how biased the Family Law Court is in favour of mothers.

By my reckoning it means you'd have them 12 out of every 28 nights. 4 nights this week, 2 the next, 4 the next and so on. By all means go for joint custody if you wish but it's doubtful you'd get it. If I was you I'd be happy enough with what she's offering. She'll have a little bit more than you but not an awful lot.

And if you can sort the whole thing out between you amicably and avoid the courts it will save alot of trouble not to mention money, so hopefully she'll realise that and be fair to you as you seem to be with her.

LegacyUser

OP, first of all I am sorry that you are in this situation. It is never easy and it is never clean. You mentioned that you would like to tie maintenance to your partner/ex-partner receiving help for the issues that you perceive she has. You will not be able to do this whether you do through mediation, negotiate of a maintenance agreement or have the Court decide the terms of same. The maintenance that you pay will be based on what is necessary to keep your children in the manner to which they are used to. As you know you will not have to pay maintenance for your partner/ex-partner. As you are not married you cannot apply for or negotiate a separation. Regarding maintenance the factors that will be considered are the needs of your children, your income and expenditure, your partners income and expenditure and the cost of running two households. The Family Law Courts never link maintenance to access or to one party's behaviour. Pretty much the only way to ensure that the behaviour you are uncomfortable with is remedied is to take the Mother out of the situation by claiming that the Mother is unfit and look for custody or involve Social Services. Be very aware though that as other posters have said the Family Law Courts lean towards the Mother 95 times out of 100 and while there is evidence that attitudes are changing they are not changing quickly enough nor is the sweep of the change broad enough. I don’t mean to offend OP but I would also sit back and take a clinical look at my position on this is I were you. You were with this woman for quite some time and I assume that at times she was taking care of the children by herself. You have lived with this situation but now that you are ending the relationship this has become a big issue. Perhaps it is not quite as big an issue as you thought? If your partner is drinking or taking drugs to excess and you have genuine concerns about your children then contact Social Services, and keep contacting Social Services until the matter is dealt with. Again be cautious if you use this option. If your perception of events does not meet with the perception of Social Services it will, without doubt, go against you in Court.
OP, I strongly suggest that you go to mediation and negotiate between yourselves the outstanding issues. I would also suggest that you provide as much emotional comfort as you can to your partner/ex-partner. If she is as volatile and vulnerable as you have outlined, then in order to protect your children, you need to provide every element of stabilisation that you can. If you threaten her she will become more entrenched and you have no idea how she can, unfortunately with the greatest of ease make your life difficult. You love your children OP and you want to keep them safe so think of the practical things that you can do to provide stability. Ask her, in writing, for a Guardianship Agreement. It sounds unlikely that she will agree but document it in any event. If she refuses make an application to Court for Guardianship. This will be held in a private Court and if you are fairly confident then you can represent yourself, if not get yourself a Solicitor. You are 99% likely to be granted it. When you are granted that you have a platform to enforce the other rights that you, as a Father have. As you are aware there are not too many of them but they are worth maintaining and fighting for.
The very best of luck.

armstrongracer

Bump..

Anyone know of a good family law practice in Dublin that won't require the selling of a limb to pay their bill.

Abi

armstrongracer wrote: »

Bump..

Anyone know of a good family law practice in Dublin that won't require the selling of a limb to pay their bill.

Im not so sure that is something we're allowed to post here, but it would be fair to say that the messier it is between you and your ex the more it will cost to sort out in court. This is why mediation is a good idea first.

If you've worked out your expenses etc and what you're left with is very little, you may be entitled to legal aid.


Worth checking out: FLAC http://www.flac.ie/whatwedo/

and these are the legal aid centres around Dublin http://www.legalaidboard.ie/lab/publishing.nsf/Content/Contact_Det_Dublin

WhyGoBald

Try FLAC, they can point you to specific resources. I'm pretty sure there are community family law centres around Dublin as well.

armstrongracer

Thanks for the advice Amnesia. I'm pretty resigned now for it to it being a fairly clinical process. I actually wan't to keep the family together and make things work. My partners the one that's initiating the split. Her issues were managable and until now, didn't affect the kids. I was the steadying influence that kept everything together. Which ultimately is what she resents me for.

I'll try flac but I don't think I will qualify for legal aid though, I'm in a reasonably well paid job but slap bang in that typical middle income pit. Pay too much tax relative to my income, half of what's left goes on rent and I'm currently supporting a partner that's not working & can't claim dole. It's a negative balance but as far as the system is concerned I'm not breadline.

armstrongracer

P.S.
I need to know where to pitch child maintenance so it's fair but at the same time I'm not being screwed. Does anyone out there know what a single parent with two pre-school kids in Dublin will get on social welfare & rent allowance? Childrens allowance she already gets direct into her account.

Abi

armstrongracer wrote: »

P.S.
I need to know where to pitch child maintenance so it's fair but at the same time I'm not being screwed. Does anyone out there know what a single parent with two pre-school kids in Dublin will get on social welfare & rent allowance? Childrens allowance she already gets direct into her account.

She gets about 280 in children's allowance, her SW is means tested, so whatever you pay her, she will be docked appropriately. Rent allowance varies, and is also means tested.