Champion Chase, 14-03-12

TheMilkyPirate

Champion Chase 2m Grade 1 Chase

The Queen Mother Champion Chase is a Class A Grade 1 chase run over two miles. It is open to horses aged 5 years old and upwards. The total prize fund in 2011 was £320,000. For many, this is the most exciting race of the fours days as it provides the thrilling spectacle of the best two mile chasers flying the Cheltenham fences at break neck speed.

Latest odds:

Sizing Europe (5/4) , Big Zeb (6) , Finians Rainbow (6) , Somersby (12) , Al Ferof (20) , Peddlers Cross (20) , Gauvain (25) , Hold Fast (25) , Kauto Stone (25) , Realt Dubh (25) , Wishfull Thinking (25) , Ghizao (33) , Forpadydeplasterer (40) , Blazing Tempo (50) , Im So Lucky (66) , Oiseau de Nuit (66) , Imsingingtheblues (80) , Nacarat (80) , Dan Breen (100)

Sizing while looking the most obvious winner as it stands, I will take him on at 5/4. For me it's an e/w bet on Somersby.

RichieLawlor

Somersby goes in the Ryanair

hucklebuck

Big Zeb

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Somersby goes in the Ryanair

Is that confirmed Richie? He is still in the markets for both.

longshotvalue

Big Zeb

Looking at that market, really brings home the fact that Sizing looks great value at 5/4.. There is simply nothing of interest at all to take him on.. The only to that could give him a run are novices that wont be running...

premierstone

Big Zeb

I actually think sizing is nearly a better bet at that price than the three perceived bankers; HF, BB and the mare.

Huntey

Sizing is probably the best 2 mile chaser of the last decade. *Edit - Considering how consistent MM was that is probably an unfair evaluation actually.

Foot perfect jumper and finds absolutely stones off the bridle. His ability to quicken from the front is fabulous to watch.

HigginsJ

Big Zeb

ah Moscow Flyer G.O.A.T

Huntey

HigginsJ wrote: »

ah Moscow Flyer G.O.A.T

Totally forgot about him aswell :pac:

premierstone

Big Zeb

Huntey wrote: »

Sizing is probably the best 2 mile chaser of the last decade. *Edit - Considering how consistent MM was that is probably an unfair evaluation actually.

Foot perfect jumper and finds absolutely stones off the bridle. His ability to quicken from the front is fabulous to watch.

Well Chief and Azertyuiop both had higher ratings aswell and Big Zeb has reached the same as Sizing, of course ratings dont tell us eveything and are really only an indicator, but I think it is fair to say the two miler division is considerably weaker now than back when Moscow was strutting he's stuff.

RichieLawlor

Huntey wrote: »

Sizing is probably the best 2 mile chaser of the last decade. *Edit - Considering how consistent MM was that is probably an unfair evaluation actually.

Foot perfect jumper and finds absolutely stones off the bridle. His ability to quicken from the front is fabulous to watch.

Moscow Flyer, Azertyioup, Well Chief, Master Minded were better, maybe even Voy Por Ustedes aswell

Huntey

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Moscow Flyer, Azertyioup, Well Chief, Master Minded were better, maybe even Voy Por Ustedes aswell

Couldn't have VPU ahead of him at all.

On his best day I would have him right up there with Azertyioup and Well Chief but for his lack of consistency it is probably only fair to rate them higher than him at this stage.

RichieLawlor

Huntey wrote: »

Couldn't have VPU ahead of him at all.

On his best day I would have him right up there with Azertyioup and Well Chief but for his lack of consistency it is probably only fair to rate them higher than him at this stage.

All a matter of opinion i suppose but i think Azertyioup and WC were far better 2 mile chasers tha Sizing Europe.

HigginsJ

Big Zeb

Yea i'd have Sizing Europe below

Moscow Flyer
Master Minded
Azertyioup
Well Chief

in that order.

Its a hard call between Voy Por Ustedes, Big Zeb and Sizing Europe. I'd prob take Voy Por Ustedes but its prob a close run thing.

Colonel Sanders

Big Zeb

I certainly don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Azertyioup would be ahead of Well Chief. The only time Azertyioup finished ahead of him was Well Chief's 3rd run over fences.

Both horses put up great weight carrying performances in top handicaps.

Sorry, this is all off topic but that truly was a golden age of 2m chasers. The 2004 Tingle Creek is still my favourite horse race off all time. Moscow Flyer was always my favourite horse but Kauto Star is damn close to toppling him

RichieLawlor

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I certainly don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Azertyioup would be ahead of Well Chief. The only time Azertyioup finished ahead of him was Well Chief's 3rd run over fences.

Both horses put up great weight carrying performances in top handicaps.

The only reason id have Azertyuiop ahead was that he won the 2m championship and Well Chief didn't.

Also, not certain but didn't Azertyuiop beat Well Chief in the Game Spirit right after WC carried 20 stone in the VC

mdwexford

Azertyuiop is the best two mile chaser ive seen. (I bummed him so my judgement may be slightly biased)

Him, Moscow Flyer and Master Minded are certainly all better than SE.

Dont think SE is anything special really.

hucklebuck

Big Zeb

My favourite would be Well Chief and yes I may well be putting him to the top following his 2009 Champion Chase performance, to come back after 2 years and to only go down 7 lengths to a horse rating 186 was phenominal.

I wouldn't have Voy Por ahead of Sizing Europe either.

To be honest I am expecting a career best performance from Sizing at Cheltenham, his last two performances have been awesome.

UrbanSea

I think this crop of 2 mile chasers are quite poor, not that Sizing Europe is a super star.

I was also a big Voy Por fan, his inconsistency was down to a broken bone that he had for over a year that had gone unnoticed. However, his best performance for me was over two and a half miles, when he absolutely hammered Master Minded in the Melling

HigginsJ

Big Zeb

Re-watced the 2004 Tingle Creek this morning. What a cracking race. 3 horses all running up to their best. Unreal.

Loved that come back run by Well Chief against MM. Just shows what a lost career he really was. One can only wonder what he could have achieved had he stayed fit.

mallachyrivers

Well Sizing Europe has to be considered a great horse, the only reason he doesn't always look so good is because of changes in trip! By far the best two miler around and was very close to winning the JNWine chase for the last two years, a great bet at 5/4!

Brianderunner

mdwexford wrote: »

Azertyuiop is the best two mile chaser ive seen. (I bummed him so my judgement may be slightly biased)

Him, Moscow Flyer and Master Minded are certainly all better than SE.

Dont think SE is anything special really.

Ah now how can you say Azertyuiop was better than Moscow. Nothing to back up that statement at all. Moscow would have laughed at him the year Azertyuiop won if he hadnt fallen.

Not convinced re Master Minded, think he got a couple of handy CC wins and was found out in Punchestown by Big Zeb (even though he luckily beat him). Big Zeb then showed he was a better horse the next season.

SE was the best of them over hurdles, he's not finished yet, he may win 3 CC's and be regarded as the GOAT.

Morgans

Cant have the Aqertyuiop better than Moscow. There wasnt much between them at their peak, but wherever you have Azertyuiop, you have to have Moscow 2l ahead IMO.

I think Master Minded at his best might have taken both. But it looks like he never really did repeat the first cheltenham performance.

I wouldnt underestimate Moscow Flyer's hurdles form either. Looked to have Istabraq in serious trouble before falling two out at Leopardstown one day.

Still remember believing Id seen a great horse in Big Zeb when he won his maiden hurdle, lumping on at Punchestown ew and getting beaten. Couldnt believe I could be so wrong, found out it was Sizing Europe he was chasing home.

RichieLawlor

Brianderunner wrote: »

Ah now how can you say Azertyuiop was better than Moscow. Nothing to back up that statement at all. Moscow would have laughed at him the year Azertyuiop won if he hadnt fallen.

Not convinced re Master Minded, think he got a couple of handy CC wins.

Right, all of this is wrong.

While I do believe that Moscow was better than Azertyuiop, there is no chance in hell anything would have 'laughed' at Azertyuiop over 2m round Cheltenham. He was one of the best jumpers I've seen ever I think, right up there with Best Mate. It was a serious performance that day and if Moscow had stood up it would have been some race.

Also regarding Master Minded getting a couple of soft Champion Chases, while neither was that strong in depth, Pegasus wouldn't have beaten him that day in 08

HigginsJ

Big Zeb

Azertyioup simply wasn't as good as Moscow. Only a few lb's in it but the only time neither of them had an excuse was the Tingle Creek and Moscow won.

Agreed no horse would have got with-in 3/4 lengths of Master Minded the day he beat Voy Por Ustedes in the Champion Chase.

prettyboy81

Sizing Europe is going to take some beating in this race but last years arkle second Finians Rainbow & the record Arkle runners have the following year in this make him my pick to beat Sizing Europe!

RichieLawlor

prettyboy81 wrote: »

Sizing Europe is going to take some beating in this race but last years arkle second Finians Rainbow & the record Arkle runners have the following year in this make him my pick to beat Sizing Europe!

Arkle winners have a brilliant record. Had an Arkle 2nd ever won the race? If it has I can't remember it.

hucklebuck

Big Zeb

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Arkle winners have a brilliant record. Had an Arkle 2nd ever won the race? If it has I can't remember it.

Cheers Richie, couldn't think of one recently and google was frustrating me...

mdwexford

Brianderunner wrote: »

Ah now how can you say Azertyuiop was better than Moscow. Nothing to back up that statement at all. Moscow would have laughed at him the year Azertyuiop won if he hadnt fallen.

Not convinced re Master Minded, think he got a couple of handy CC wins and was found out in Punchestown by Big Zeb (even though he luckily beat him). Big Zeb then showed he was a better horse the next season.

SE was the best of them over hurdles, he's not finished yet, he may win 3 CC's and be regarded as the GOAT.

Yes there is, Azertyuiop was jumping him into the ground in the 04 Champion Chase until MF tipped up.

They never met at their peak imo, Azertyuiop was never at his best round Sandown.

If you think Big Zeb is better than Master Minded at their respective bests than you dont watch races very well.

Regardless if he does it wont mean much unless he slams an unbeaten Sprinter Sacre this time next year.

HigginsJ wrote: »

Azertyioup simply wasn't as good as Moscow. Only a few lb's in it but the only time neither of them had an excuse was the Tingle Creek and Moscow won.

Agreed no horse would have got with-in 3/4 lengths of Master Minded the day he beat Voy Por Ustedes in the Champion Chase.

Disagree.

Dont know about that either anymore. Hard to judge when he never really did anything like it again.

Brianderunner

VPU clearly underperformed in the CC that day, which was shown by the Aintree reversal a few weeks later. It's nice to think we saw a superstar that day in March '08 but all the evidence since says otherwise.

No i think MM has been shown up to be the good, but not brilliant horse he was initially thought of as over the last few seasons. A few pounds behind the Moscow/Az/WC triumverate for sure. That being said he was one of my fav horses and i was sad to see his demise in the KG this season. Who's to say Big Zeb wasnt a better horse all along? it looks that way now from my perspective anyway.

Finally Moscow only ever did just enough to win against the 2 lads (WC and AZ) Who knows if he had more in the locker? Can any of you honestly see AZ jumping the last 3 or 4 lengths clear of Moscow the year MF fell? no i can't either. The "put him on the floor" comments from John Hales were an admission that they were the inferior horse imo. To me that comment suggested that the only way they could beat MF was if he fell.

RichieLawlor

Brianderunner wrote: »

VPU clearly underperformed in the CC that day, which was shown by the Aintree reversal a few weeks later.

All wrong again. Are you just making this stuff up or what.

Voy Por Ustedes didn't 'clearly' underperform. He finished 19 lengths adrift of MM but 16 lengths and more ahead of Fair Along, Schindlers Hunt, Twist Magic which is as good as he was.

But now that you mention underperforming Master Minded 'clearly' underperformed at Aintree that year.

longshotvalue

Big Zeb

Masterminded was in the end a horse who could perform to an exceptional level only once a year really. Its mainly his jumping, on his day jumping straight and fast he was dam near unbeatable. Only Moscow Flyer of the recent 2 milers in my opinion could live with him on his day.

As for Moscow/Az/WC, clearly Moscow was the most proven of them, and the feeling was there that he would have done whatever was required to beat whatever came at him in his prime. Getting past him after the last was never done really.

Unfortunately Sizing Europe, really hasn't anything to beat this year or last, but in my view he is well clear of Big Zeb, thats only my view but his manner of victory last year was impressive and also this years Tingle Creek.

HigginsJ

Big Zeb

Yea the CC Master Minded blew away Voy Por Ustedes has to be taken in context of how Voy por Ustedes blew eveything else away. It was a 2 horse race coming down the hill. I had hoped that MM would not find much for pressure but he was amazing that day.

I am a huge Moscow Flyer fan but on that day i think MM was unbeatable.

convert

Poll added.

sonnky

Finian's Rainbow

To be honest this isn't the best of CC's and will probably be won by either Big Zeb or Sizing. While Sizing beat him by 15l- Big Zeb was probably eased after being beat and this is probably his last shot at this as he will be 12 year old next year!

ft9

Big Zeb

Colm Murphy has supposedly confirmed there is a virus in the yard.

Seals the deal for SE imo, if true.

Nulty

ft9 wrote: »

Colm Murphy has supposedly confirmed there is a virus in the yard.

Seals the deal for SE imo, if true.

Link?

ft9

Big Zeb

Nothing in writing yet, hence the 'supposedy' part and 'if true'.