Ridiculous nature of Nicky Mackay ban

Lapin

Would the stewards have prefered it if the horse went crashing through the rails and ploughed into the crowd at Wolverhampton today?

A 10 day ban for use of the whip is excessive to begin with but in this particular case it smacks of outright stupidity.

From the Racing Post.

hucklebuck

Lapin wrote: »

Would the stewards have prefered it if the horse went crashing through the rails and ploughed into the crowd at Wolverhampton today?

A 10 day ban for use of the whip is excessive to begin with but in this particular case it smacks of outright stupidity.

From the Racing Post.

Pure stupidity. He had a serious job trying to steer he back to the inside rail when she made a break for the 7f exit. The steward even suggested the remedy of pulling the whip through, and what strike a horse on the side she was veering from.

This is going to seriously harm racing, next time Mackay or another jockey is riding and this happens, do you think they will:

A) Risk overusing the whip OR
Pull the horse up on the grounds of health and safety

Stupid assholes keep getting it so wrong :mad:

strik

Absolute disgrace!

Winning Ways Racing

I didn't see the race so cannot comment on it but the whole whip debacle is surely down to the lack of common sense. Where a horse is clearly drifting, a jock should be entitled to take corrective action and this should not count as a strike. The issue is with the jocks is that corrective action is two-fold, stop pushing out and use to whip to correct. Most jocks will keep riding out while trying to use the whip to correct. Therein lies the problem. Until jocks cop on that corrective action involves two actions, and not just one, there will always be a problem.

It is also important to note that a jock could use this as an excuse. Consider a tight finish. If the jock wants to give the horse another crack he could claim it was drifting slightly and he gave it a slap down the shoulder when he knew corrective action was not required. but the stewards will have trouble if there is a rule to say corrective action is allowed when considering use of the whip.

Jocks could count to 12 before, so they should be able to count to 7 now. Whether 7 is the right number is open to debate. However, stewards should be given some latitude to interpret the rules. If in doubt, they should refer it directly to the BHA for ruling rather than guessing. This would mean that the BHA can carefully consider it with the benefit of time and more expertise than the stewards on the day.

hucklebuck

Surely the only remedy is for the owners & jockeys to set up a new body for horseracing, the BHA is an old boys clubs with one stupid decision after another and with a new body making proper decisions racing won't be lost as a sport as it's on the road to ruin.

sting60

This is my biggest hate in racing[stewards] I tend to lose the rag on it to be fair.Let me explain what is endemic in stewardship of racing here and across the pond.When growing up most young lads like myself would play all sports almost all the time and go to the local races,go to alot of point to points and we had great fun doing so.There was one lad who never kicked a ball never watched his county in an all Ireland final and hated horse racing[would not know what a horse looked like].His father was a steward at our local track and died a number of years ago.This man was handed down this honor from his father,his first ever time at a race meeting he was sitting in on enquiries.This guy was telling Murtagh,Smullen,Kinane,Swan,Walsh,Carberry what they were doing wrong.If you see the ATR interview with the Wolves steward this smacks off above.He was saying that the jockey was in no danger yet in the jockeys interview he said he was.My obvious question is ,how does the steward know that the jockey was not in danger,does his indept experience in the saddle going at the speeds these flat horses go at tell him and his cohorts.or did he read it in a book .Sorry for the long winded story but you get the point.Wait for Cheltenham.

fr wishy washy

What a kockk up by the Stewards,the jockey was over sympathetic on the horse if anything and did really well to win the race considering the amount of ground lost by going wide on 2 turns and hanging badly in the straight.

The Stewards are ruining the sport to appease the once a year TV viewers.:mad:

Winning Ways Racing

sting60 wrote: »

If you see the ATR interview with the Wolves steward this smacks off above.He was saying that the jockey was in no danger yet in the jockeys interview he said he was.

To play devil's advocate, the jock is hardly going to say anything different....is he?

I've done some basic riding but it doesn't mean I can't look at the facts in front of me and make a decision. I do it as a horse owner and I do it in my business life. I'm not a lawyer or a tax expert but I've pulled them up on docs they've produced. My father is a great fan of "common sense". It generally solves all problems.

Winning Ways Racing

fr wishy washy wrote: »

The Stewards are ruining the sport to appease the once a year TV viewers.:mad:

This is just a broad opinion but is there not a cultural difference. Recently all the Irish horse industry bodies (owners, trainers, jocks, etc) met to discuss the use of the whip in Ireland and it was determined that (a) we didn't have a whip problem (generally because we only race flat out in the last two furlongs) and (b) Irish society does not have as big a problem as English society with horse racing in general.

So Irish people are looking at an English problem with different glasses on. Media is very influential over there. It is an industrial and financial services country. Most Irish people know someone with an agricultural/animal background. It might be a neighbour at home or through friends/family or just in the parish. In London, you could spend a while trying to find anyone that knows anyone that has any connection to agri/animals. So they see Ballabriggs swaying after winning the National, or Frankie beating the bejaysus out of Rewilding in Royal Ascot (24 times he hit it) and they get a little upset. I can understand that. I don't think the public would ever shut down racing in Ireland, but they could in the UK so they need to pander a little more to them in order to ensure survival.

Huntey

The rules almost make a jockeys position untenable.

What would have happened if the Mackay put the whip down and left her crash through the rails? In that instance he isn't riding with care and consideration so isn't fulfilling his role as a jockey.

The other option would have been to pull her up because she was too dangerous to control. He would be fulfilling his duties in that instance but he would get hammered for not riding out a finish.

These rules have increased the risk of injury to riders and done little for the horses welfare.

sting60

Winning Ways Racing wrote: »

This is just a broad opinion but is there not a cultural difference. Recently all the Irish horse industry bodies (owners, trainers, jocks, etc) met to discuss the use of the whip in Ireland and it was determined that (a) we didn't have a whip problem (generally because we only race flat out in the last two furlongs) and (b) Irish society does not have as big a problem as English society with horse racing in general.

So Irish people are looking at an English problem with different glasses on. Media is very influential over there. It is an industrial and financial services country. Most Irish people know someone with an agricultural/animal background. It might be a neighbour at home or through friends/family or just in the parish. In London, you could spend a while trying to find anyone that knows anyone that has any connection to agri/animals. So they see Ballabriggs swaying after winning the National, or Frankie beating the bejaysus out of Rewilding in Royal Ascot (24 times he hit it) and they get a little upset. I can understand that. I don't think the public would ever shut down racing in Ireland, but they could in the UK so they need to pander a little more to them in order to ensure survival.

The so called English problem will become a very serious Irish problem starting with Cheltenham and going onto the English flat season.UK whip bans stand here, correct me if Im wrong.The real welfare of the racehorse has not been addressed and continues to swept under the mythical carpet.

HigginsJ

I actually had a small e/w wager on the runner up and i think it's a disgrace that he got to hit the winner 2 more times than the runner-up, clearly they should have reversed the result as well!!!!

In all fairness he did a great job and if you watch the last 50 yards he doesnt hit the horse once, so he knew he had reached his limit. There is no way you could describe him as careless or excessive with use of the whip.

It was a cracking ride and to win considering he must have covered 1f more than any other horse in the race was fantastic. He will win ride of the week on ATR next week just to prove a point.

Stewards are clueless.

fr wishy washy

Winning Ways Racing wrote: »

. So they see Ballabriggs swaying after winning the National, or Frankie beating the bejaysus out of Rewilding in Royal Ascot (24 times he hit it) and they get a little upset. I can understand that. I don't think the public would ever shut down racing in Ireland, but they could in the UK so they need to pander a little more to them in order to ensure survival.

Throw in that muppet Big Mac (longtime supporter of coursing & fox hunting) who has attached his sinking media career to this "cause" and a few other do gooders and hey presto- you've the sport as we know it (in the UK) changed with bans being handed out like confetti.

sting60

fr wishy washy wrote: »

Throw in that muppet Big Mac (longtime supporter of coursing & fox hunting) who has attached his sinking media career to this "cause" and a few other do gooders and hey presto- you've the sport as we know it (in the UK) changed with bans being handed out like confetti.

Why add coursing to your post????

Huntey

sting60 wrote: »

Why add coursing to your post????

Many would see coursing and fox hunting as far more detrimental to animal welfare then the whip debacle. It is kind of ironic.

sting60

Huntey wrote: »

Many would see coursing and fox hunting as far more detrimental to animal welfare then the whip debacle. It is kind of ironic.

You know nothing about coursing,please in future stop printing rubbish.If you have intelligent facts like most posters have, please make them.

Huntey

sting60 wrote: »

You know nothing about coursing,please in future stop printing rubbish.If you have intelligent facts like most posters have, please make them.

I know you can't back an 18/1 shot after he has won anyway for a start. :pac:

Furthermore, I don't want to know anything about it, hence why I am posting in the Horse Racing forum about horses. I was simply answering the question you put forward, no need to start acting like the clown you usually portray yourself as.

ft9

Since Huntey has joined boards I have backed a good few winners as a result of his advice/insight.

He has finished up his log in the gambling forum as a result of people like you coming on trying to pick holes in everything he posts, probably because his posts can sound arrogant. If you can manage to read beyond this you will discover his posts are straight to the point, well constructed and delivered with confidence.

This is much better imo than someone coming on and

1) Posting a tip for an 18/1 shot after the race

2) Lays 3 of the biggest hot-shots in Cheltenham for ridiculous money (can't remember exact figures but something like €8000 each)

3) Claims to be €20,000 in profit which is laughable after point number 2 above.

Could you please show me anywhere Huntey has posted anything like this sh!t you have?

This forum needs more people like him, who understand and are involved in the industry.

So please Sting , you go away and leave the people who know what they are on about alone.

Originally Posted by sting60
DO NOT ,have any bet until the day.U are a fool like everyone else bar the bookies.Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease wait.Im not so sure about ,the stayers,Champion hurdle,Gold Cup, all three favs will not win.I think ,layed Big Bucks wont win to 7,000e.Hurricane fly lay 4,570e, Long Run lay 8,5750e .I think my nap is Big Bucks not to to win [.GET ON]

FFS!

Huntey

I appreciate the post ft9 although you have probably painted me in a better light than I am worthy of.

Sting, I do not claim to know everything about horse racing and often get assessments wrong or misjudged. Only earlier I suggested SE was the best 2 mile chaser of the last decade which is actually an exaggerated assessment of his credentials on my part.

I have plenty of time for intelligent discussion and enjoy different reasoned opinions, however, I have zero time for idiocy.

I am quite bullish in my opinions and make no qualms about that, but you will rarely see me post some of the junk with which your posts are littered with.

P.S. apologies for dragging another thread off topic.

hucklebuck

Winning Ways Racing wrote: »

they could in the UK so they need to pander a little more to them in order to ensure survival.

I agree with what you are saying up to this point, I can't see this happening and if they tried to you could be sure Lizzie would use to influence.

convert

Yet another reminder to everyone to please report problem posts rather than take matters into your own hands. Thanks. C

Winning Ways Racing

hucklebuck wrote: »

I agree with what you are saying up to this point, I can't see this happening and if they tried to you could be sure Lizzie would use to influence.

I'd agree with you there but the risk is still there. Racing in the UK is like the Communists in China, having to accept a little change to survive. As far as I can see, this idea of letting a banned rider ride on a Grade 1 day is causing half the problems. A ban is a ban.

hucklebuck

Winning Ways Racing wrote: »

I'd agree with you there but the risk is still there. Racing in the UK is like the Communists in China, having to accept a little change to survive. As far as I can see, this idea of letting a banned rider ride on a Grade 1 day is causing half the problems. A ban is a ban.

Fair point. I think the ban bipassing Grade 1 days is lunacy. They should look at longer bans on the big race days where Joe Public will be tuning in.

Stupid long bans on normal days will go under Joe Public's radar, it's not as if they decide one day to look at the racing pages.

Shelflife

Personally i find the new whip rules silly, while WWR raises some good points as to the issues in the UK and how they are pandering to the media, i feel that they would be better suited to trying to educate the media and the public as to how well looked after these animals are.

As an owner I have no problem with my horse getting the whip at the business end of the race, that said I dont want some eejit of a jockey tearing strips off him either, but as long as the horse responds to the whip I am happy with that.

To see the way that they are cared for and looked after by the stable staff is wonderful, they literally want for nothing so if my horse needs the whip 10 or 12 times to get him home so be it, and then he can go back to his luxurious lifestyle for another few weeks until we run him again.

The problem is that the media (in the interests of balance) give face time to the loonyside as well where they want racing banned altogether as its not natural, cleverly forgetting that if racing was banned tomorrow morning all these animals would be culled as they no longer have a function.

so joe public sees this side of things and just assumes that the horses are not treated well.

Horse racing uk needs to get smarter in its efforts to educate and show the other side of the arguement, they need to become more media savey as regards the threat that these loonies bring and it is a real thraet as WWR has said.

Unfortuneatley they are happier to pander to the loonies and by doing so they give credence to their arguements, much better to worry about ascot dress codes then to take on the bigger issues.