Who is the most vile character in A Song of Ice and Fire?

Pepe LeFrits

Well, I'm tired of waiting for the forum to be setup, so I'm taking matters into my own hands!

Of the main characters I'd say it's a toss up between Tywin, Cersei and Joffrey. Of those three I'd probably go with Tywin - Cersei is just so insane in the books that you almost start to feel sorry for her, and Joffrey was always going to be screwed with horse**** for DNA, Cersei for a mother and a loveless drunk for a father. Tywin on the other hand is just a ruthless, evil bastard with very little to endear him other than loyalty to his family. He even appears to have had quite a nice upbringing, with a father that was just a bit of a soft touch.

Opening it up to the more secondary characters - Gregor Clegane is an obvious one, he's just a evil thug with no redeeming qualities that I can think of. Ramsey Bolton is up there too... in fact, he's possibly even worse than Clegane, considering how much pleasure he takes from the stuff he does.

Clegane's men like the Tickler and Biter if I recall are pretty awful too.

Although of all the characters I want to see die horrible deaths, special mention also has to go to Books 3/4 MONSTER

Lord Walder. I hope Catelyn strings him up from a tree for what he did to Robb. (Catelyn is a bit of a bitch herself so I didn't mind her getting done in so much)

.

Sleepy

I think it has to be Ramsey Bolton tbh. Zero redeeming traits and even his father is ashamed of his actions.

Kevan Lannister provides some back-story as to why Tywin is such a vicious and hard man: the incompetence of his father as a ruler required a strong Lannister since the lords of his province treated him with disdain despite him being their leige lord and it was Tyrion's signal of intent (the oft-mentioned "rains of Castamere") the "hear me roar" moment that pulled the western provinces back under the control of House Lannister. His coldness to Tyrion is explained multiple times as being down to hearbreak over his wife's death in the birthing bed. In many senses Tywin is a ruthless man because his family needed him to be that man (think Michael Corleone from the Godfather).

Cersei actually has less redeeming features for me: a life of privilege may have played into her sense of entitlement but it's quite clear that she's either delusional or simply ignorant of how to do the one thing she's most intent on doing: rule a kingdom. I think it's Tyrion that acknowledges she has "a low cunning" but she's so used to being fawned over at court she expects respect from subjects without understanding that respect has to be earned (Ned's entire life, Robb's facing down of the Greyjohn whilst little more than a boy etc.).

Zapp Brannigan

I'd also throw in Littlefinger.

He has a hand in everything that's going on. He's not ashamed to kill those who get in his way and it doesn't matter who they are. He also is in love with his old flame's daughter.

Shryke

The Boltons I would say. Plenty of messed up stuff from all quarters but Jesus there's serious psychological issues with that shower.

WindmillWarrior

Yeah, the Boltons for me as well. The North remembers motherf*ckers!

Failing that anyone from Arya's list.

Krusader

Lord Walder Frey

Dades

Anyone who keeps a flaying knife on their person.

johnnyskeleton

I always thought that that he painted Lysa Tully as the vilest of the noble characters i.e. the ones who kill with words as opposed to all the various torturers and murderers (obviously Qyburn is suggested as being the most perverted person). The latter don't really count in my view as they are just carrying out orders.

The reason I say her is that unlike all the main scheming characters, she has very little by way of positive characteristics.

ixoy

Ramsey Bolton definitely. Ser (!) Gregor Clegane is a monster but his anger is more of a vicious nature. Bolton is a sadist, reveling in people's pain. He'll hunt them down for sport and then torture them anyway. Nasty piece of work.

Einhard

What I find incredible about the books is that Martin makes it very difficult for the reader to hate any one character. Practically every one of them is nuanced and complicated, and when one feels that one is on firm ground in disliking a character, one learns something of their life and upbringing and gains some degree of empathy. The Hound and Ser Ilyn Payne are pretty nasty, brutish characters but when one learns of their lives, one can see how their personalities were shaped; very few have much that's good to say about Cersei, and it's very easy to paint her as privileged and spoilt, but as one reads further along, one realises that she has had her fair share of tragedy, and that she is as much a victim of circumstances as she is the creator of victims.

Having said that, I'd have to niminate Vargo Hoat as the most vile character. He acts as he does simply for cash, and has no redeeming qualities that I can see. Although, it'll probably turn out that he has some incredibly sad backstory which will make me change my mind about him too!:D

GerB40

Ramsey Bolton... Even though GRRM reckons none of his character's are purely good or bad i can't see anything redeeming about that sadistic bastard.. Even Roose despairs at the malevolence of the bastard of Bolton.

Playboy

What about the guy who lived north of the wall with all his child wives!?

Krusader

Playboy wrote: »

What about the guy who lived north of the wall with all his child wives!?

Craster

Trojan

Walder Frey is an evil auld bastid, Ramsey Bolton is nasty but probably has less blood on his hands.

Sleepy

If your measuring it purely in terms of blood on hands it has to be Aerys II Targaryen surely?

Lingua Franca

Ramsey Bolton, what he does is sadistic and utterly revolting. From

mutilating Theon

to

whatever he made Jeyne Poole do with his dogs.

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

If your measuring it purely in terms of blood on hands it has to be Aerys II Targaryen surely?

aye some of the things he did were rough but the younger bolton has to be the worst kina horrible what he did to some people

Lingua Franca

Lingua Franca wrote: »

... to

whatever he made Jeyne Poole do with his dogs.

What? I must have blanked that out in sheer horror.

Lingua Franca

When she's being rescued and she thinks it's the bastard testing her so she's babbling about being a good girl who loves him very much and she'll gve him sons etc, she says something along the lines of "

tell him... I'll be good... and do anything with him... or the dog..."

.

Sleepy

I'd agree, Bolton would be the vilest character imo but with Trojan weighing him against Frey on the basis of the amount of blood on his hands, you'd have to say that Aerys (or arguably even Robert) has more since his actions have led not only to the war of the 5 Kings, but also to Roberts Rebellion.

Trojan

Well, see Aerys was mad, and Robert was incompetent. Walder Frey is just an evil bugger. That makes him more "vile" for me.

quickbeam

Gotta vote for the slimey Ramsey Snow/Bolton too. Evil bastard, no redeeming features.

Second would be Walder Frey and his kin.

Cersei and Twyin don't have a patch on Ramsey or Walder. Joffrey would be a close third though.

How about a poll?

Paddy Samurai

Ramsey Bolton without doubt.No one comes near IMO.
Perverted and sadistic.Overall a sick fcuker.

ancapailldorcha

Going to go with Ramsay as well. He has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

ArmaniJeanss

Ramsay B, but I'd suspect other characters would have been every bit as capable of the same level of sociopathetic/physcopathic behaviour if they were put in a position of unquestioned power, specifically Viserys, Joffrey and Cersei.

Cersei arguably is already close to Ramsay ; she stood there whilst Qyburn brutally tortured the Bard, and sent Falyse and others to the same faith.

GerB40

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Ramsay B, but I'd suspect other characters would have been every bit as capable of the same level of sociopathetic/physcopathic behaviour if they were put in a position of unquestioned power, specifically Viserys, Joffrey and Cersei.

Cersei arguably is already close to Ramsay ; she stood there whilst Qyburn brutally tortured the Bard, and sent Falyse and others to the same faith.

Oh ya i forgot about Qyburn.. He's one twisted ****er too. He loves the oul necromancy...

3qsmavrod5twfe

Toss up between Lord Walder Frey, the Bastard of Bolton, Craster or Vargo Hoat.

Mr.Prodston

It has to be Ramsey Bolton. Cersei is just somebody who thinks she can play the game but ultimately she just doesn't have the balls to do things right (Pun intended).

As for Tywin I can understand why he became so ruthless considering the manner of his wife's death and the love he had for her.

I have a theory that Tyrion is a Targ by Aerys and that Tywin knew this, which would be revealed later on. If this did happen he would look rather compassionate

What Ramsey does with that flaying knife is just shocking. That story was my favourite in ADWD though.

ancapailldorcha

What's a

Targ

?

Mr.Prodston

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

What's a

Targ

?

A

Targ is just short for Targaryen. To put it simply my theory is that the mad king Aerys is Tyrion's father and is thus a Targaryen not a Lannister. It comes from a story Barristan Selmy tells somewhere in ADWD I think. Thus why I think Tywin may have grounds for having a softer side to him