Welsh Open

cherryghost

New competition new thread :P

First rounds are coming in. Fergal O Brien thrashed by Judd. Steve Davis currently 3-2 down on Ali Carter. Joyce 1-0 up on Murphy, Murphy looking off beat.

cherryghost

Steve Davis through to the last 16. :eek:

zack01

cherryghost wrote: »

Steve Davis through to the last 16. :eek:

Two tons for Davis in that match! I'm looking forward to thenKen Doherty v Mark Allen match, no love lost between those two.

Big week for several players as it's the last event before the final seeding cut of the season, next Monday we will know who is in the top 16 for the Worlds in Sheffield and who has missed out and has to qualify. Hope Ken can win a match or two here, it will help keep his spot in the top 32 and therefore only have to play one qualifying match for the remaining events of the season.

cherryghost

Tough opening opponent though for Ken.

giant_midget

cherryghost wrote: »

Tough opening opponent though for Ken.

Also a tough one for Hendry. Will be hard for him to peel Robertson off the table.

giant_midget

Felt really sorry for Sam Baird. That blue is going to haunt him i think.

zack01

Looking forward to Ken V Allen today, serious serious bad blood there!

giant_midget

zack01 wrote: »

Looking forward to Ken V Allen today, serious serious bad blood there!

I heard Joe Johnson saying this last night and was wondering what he was on about? They just don't like each other do they?

Setun

What's the reasoning for the bad blood Zack?

Hendry seemed to have his eye in for the long pots yesterday against Robertson. Great to see him playing at a very high level again, hopefully the form will last the tournament.

zack01

The bad blood goes back to the 2007 Grand Prix when it was a round robin group event, Ken was playing Allen early in the tournament. During the match Allen potted a black and the referee deemed the black could be spotted on its own spot instead of the pink spot as Aleen had thought the black spot was covered. He smacked his fist down on the cushion played a safety and went back to his chair, the referee rightly informed him that he would get a warning if he did that again, to which Allen replied, 'well f***ing warn me then' to the referee. Allen went on to win the match and afterwards in his press interview Ken said 'He was a disgrace, For such a relative newcomer to the pro game, he's got a serious attitude problem".
Since then a few bickering comments have been made towards Ken and indeed others from Allen most recently towards Stuart Bingham during this seasons Austrailian Open.
In my opinion he has a lot to learn towards respecting people, i've never met him but in conversation with a few players you get the general feeling that he's not a nice person. Pity really because he's a fantastic player and along with Trump is bringing the game to a wider audience with their flamboyant play.

cherryghost

I think Allen's attitude is a welcome addition to snooker imo. He's not afraid to make comments where anyone else wouldn't. I respect him for that. Snooker always had its fair share of characters and just because Allen's character is more aggressive than others, doesn't mean he should be shot down.

Just my 2 cents. Also looking forward to the match btw. I expect Allen to win but I've seen stranger things in the competition so far! :rolleyes:

zack01

cherryghost wrote: »

I think Allen's attitude is a welcome addition to snooker imo. He's not afraid to make comments where anyone else wouldn't. I respect him for that. Snooker always had its fair share of characters and just because Allen's character is more aggressive than others, doesn't mean he should be shot down.

Just my 2 cents. Also looking forward to the match btw. I expect Allen to win but I've seen stranger things in the competition so far! :rolleyes:

I totally agree with players expressing themselves but Allens comments sometimes can be a bit below the belt and stupid. Most notably his comments about removing Barry Hearn and how Hearns influence is ruining the game. My answer to that was that before Hearn came in there was seven events per season including the Masters, this season there is over thirty, so Hearn has kept his promise of more snooker and more money, only yesterday Hearn announced that next season there will be over eight million in prize money!
And Allen is not happy with that!
He should just get on with playing snooker and getting on with his fellow players.

Really can't see Ken beating him today,pity because it would be great to see Ken play Hendry in the next round.
As someone said earlier stranger things have happened!

zack01

Allen wins 4-0, which means its going to be a very close call for Ken holding onto his top 32 position when the rankings are released on Monday.

cherryghost

zack01 wrote: »

Allen wins 4-0, which means its going to be a very close call for Ken holding onto his top 32 position when the rankings are released on Monday.

Close call with whom? I can't see anyone bar Steve Davis doing anything. He's currently provisionally 37th. I think he needs a semi final appearance to knock on the top 32, and I personally don't think that's acheivable

zack01

cherryghost wrote: »

Close call with whom? I can't see anyone bar Steve Davis doing anything. He's currently provisionally 37th. I think he needs a semi final appearance to knock on the top 32, and I personally don't think that's acheivable

Your absolutely spot on, I just added up Ken's ranking points and currently he lies 32nd, and yes the only person who will have a say in that will be Steve Davis, he plays Murphy tomorrow and of he wins then will play the winner of Allen & Hendry for a semi final slot,any another other time I wouldn't give Davis much of a chance but if he continues where he left off against Carter..... !

cherryghost

zack01 wrote: »

Your absolutely spot on, I just added up Ken's ranking points and currently he lies 32nd, and yes the only person who will have a say in that will be Steve Davis, he plays Murphy tomorrow and of he wins then will play the winner of Allen & Hendry for a semi final slot,any another other time I wouldn't give Davis much of a chance but if he continues where he left off against Carter..... !

Very true, he showed some of his yesteryear talent against Carter. Murphy is a different fish altogether, much better with long ball pots. I reckon Davis needs top notch safety play to stand any chance against Murphy if he has any chance of being in contention.

zack01

cherryghost wrote: »

Very true, he showed some of his yesteryear talent against Carter. Murphy is a different fish altogether, much better with long ball pots. I reckon Davis needs top notch safety play to stand any chance against Murphy if he has any chance of being in contention.

Top notch safety is what Davis is all about and he will get chances from Murphy, but it's all about taking the chances and scoring like he did against Carter. Looking at the rankings and if Davis wins tonight he will rise to 36th, incredible achievement for a 54 year old.

zack01

zack01 wrote: »

Top notch safety is what Davis is all about and he will get chances from Murphy, but it's all about taking the chances and scoring like he did against Carter. Looking at the rankings and if Davis wins tonight he will rise to 36th, incredible achievement for a 54 year old.

Murphy wins 4-0, and as I said its all about taking chances, Davis got a decent chance in each frame but just could not score as well as he did against Carter.
One word sums up why the older players are not winning events these days and that's 'consistency'. They just can't bring it to the table day in day out anymore.
I wouldn't be surprised if Hendry was to suffer a similar fate against Allen tomorrow after playing so well against Robertson.

Michael Collins

zack01 wrote: »

Murphy wins 4-0, and as I said its all about taking chances, Davis got a decent chance in each frame but just could not score as well as he did against Carter.
One word sums up why the older players are not winning events these days and that's 'consistency'. They just can't bring it to the table day in day out anymore.
I wouldn't be surprised if Hendry was to suffer a similar fate against Allen tomorrow after playing so well against Robertson.

But why is that the older players don't have it anymore?

With soccer there are physical limitations as you get older - although there's theories a lot of that is mental too. With snooker though there's no obvious reason why you can't retain your performance well into middle age, yet, as zack01 says, none of the older players seem able to compete consistently anymore.

I see several possibilities:

1. The standard has improved, and the newer players are simply better. The older players haven't improved accordinly.
2. The older players have busier lives, therefore they do not as much time to practise as they once had.
3. Less drive for success in the older players, especially those who've one a few tournements.
4. Degredation of concentration with age, leading to more randomly missed pots(!).

Hendry in particular is a hard one to analyse. He probably is the best snooker player there's been, and in my opinion he's the father of how the modern game is played. Just watching him, he clearly doesn't play as well as he used to, so that's 1 above ruled out.

As for 2 and 3, I'd say Hendry is the kinda guy who wouldn't play anymore if he didn't still put the effort in and had the drive/desire to win.

So that leaves 4, has he simply lost the eye for the shot or the ability to concentrate or what? He makes a lot more "unforced" errors than he used to, and probably isn't as good under pressure...

There's lot of variables I guess but I think it's an interesting one. Any thoughts?

zack01

Michael Collins wrote: »

But why is that the older players don't have it anymore?

With soccer there are physical limitations as you get older - although there's theories a lot of that is mental too. With snooker though there's no obvious reason why you can't retain your performance well into middle age, yet, as zack01 says, none of the older players seem able to compete consistently anymore.

I see several possibilities:

1. The standard has improved, and the newer players are simply better. The older players haven't improved accordinly.
2. The older players have busier lives, therefore they do not as much time to practise as they once had.
3. Less drive for success in the older players, especially those who've one a few tournements.
4. Degredation of concentration with age, leading to more randomly missed pots(!).

Hendry in particular is a hard one to analyse. He probably is the best snooker player there's been, and in my opinion he's the father of how the modern game is played. Just watching him, he clearly doesn't play as well as he used to, so that's 1 above ruled out.

As for 2 and 3, I'd say Hendry is the kinda guy who wouldn't play anymore if he didn't still put the effort in and had the drive/desire to win.

So that leaves 4, has he simply lost the eye for the shot or the ability to concentrate or what? He makes a lot more "unforced" errors than he used to, and probably isn't as good under pressure...

There's lot of variables I guess but I think it's an interesting one. Any thoughts?

Interesting post and some genuine points made, but i do believe it's all down to lack of consistency. Most of the, lets say , older players ie those 40 or older are all suffering the same fate and thats not being able to compete at the highest level on a regular basis.
Take for example the three eldest players who have qualified for Wales this week, Davis, Hendry, and Doherty, all three are over 40, are all reasonable healthy and fit , yet with all the experience and titles between them they would have gone to Wales this week with very little chance of winning the title.

If you see them on the practice table they are different class, but practice is completely different from match snooker, yes we will see and continue to see flashes of brilliance from them most notably the form shown by Davis and Hendry in their first round matches this week, but trying to carry that form from one match into another and continue the level of concentration needed is a hard task for these players.
Take for example Davis v Carter the other night, Davis hardly missed, he made two tons and looked liked the Davis of old, then take tonight and Davis v Murphy, he was a completely different player, and that was'nt down to Murphy playing brilliant and keeping Davis out, Davis had several scoring opportunities in each frame yet i think his highest break was 30, he even missed two blacks off the spot.
He eventually lost 4-0, i honestly believe Hendry may suffer the same type of fate in his match against Allen.
The funny thing is if you study their play closely it's the easy balls that they miss more these days and that as you have mentioned is all down to concentration.
Could you honestly see either of them lasting the seventeen days in Sheffield playing all that snooker to win another title?
These guys love the game, yes they have other interests now alongside playing especially as all three are now employed by the BBC as commentators but they would rather be out there playing than calling the shots into the mic.
Regarding standard, yes snooker is being played at an incredible standard these days but i have no doubt if these three were younger they would be able to compete with the generation of today.
The baton has been passed and i think in four or five years time we may see the same fate happening Higgins and O'Sullivan.

As much as i enjoy seeing the Trumps etc of today it's always great to see the older guys winning and turning it on now and again.

cherryghost

Agree with pretty much everything said above. If you look at the last 10 years of competitive play between Davis, Hendry and Doherty, you'd instantly recognize that their shot times have increased somewhat. All down to pure concentration imo and it's very draining on the player spending that extra bit of time on a shot. It all builds up and eventually it'll give way.

Pighead

Pretty straightforward 4-1 win just now for Ronnie against Williams. Standard was high early on with a century from each man but it got a bit scrappy after that with Williams in particular missing a few very easy balls.

If Judd beats Bingham this evening it's gonna be yet another Ronnie V Judd early round match up. Trump has won the last couple of meetings so Ronnie should be fired up for this one.

zack01

zack01 wrote: »

He eventually lost 4-0, i honestly believe Hendry may suffer the same type of fate in his match against Allen.

Now why didn't I have a punt on that ??

iMuse

Great win for Ronnie, people where writing him off a few months ago.

zack01

Great win for Ding last night, very impressed with his temperment throughout the match, playing Selby you know your always going to have a battle and when Selby made that 145 to go 8-6 behind i thought here we go again another Selby fightback, but Ding has one great thing in his game and that is he is a great player under pressure, and over the last two years he has improved immensely in this area of his game. The defeat by Trump in last years world semi's has stood to him and at the moment he is one of the best players out there at closing out a match.
Some may argue that it's his first ranking title in quite some time but like O'Sullivan,Selby and in patches this week Higgins the top players are beginning to find their form and no coincidence either with the run in to the worlds coming up.
Next up is the World Open starting in China next weekend, Ding will start a strong favourite on home soil,but for a punt i'm going to have a few bob on Robertson.

I'll put the draw up here later.