I will pray for you?

joseph brand

Quick question.

Over in the Christianity forum, I have seen posters write 'I will pray for you'.

How does this work? I mean, my name is not joseph brand, I just picked it because when shortened, it becomes Jo Brand, get it? /tumbleweed.

If a poster wanted to pray for me, would they be praying for joseph? Or would they just say a prayer, thinking of me? (doesn't even know me, or my name).

MrStuffins

Well......................



It doesn't!

Galvasean

It's just a thing they do to annoy you and/or be condescending. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

kiffer

well... It doesn't work but lets for the time being assume the position of someone that believes that there is at least one magical entity that they can ask to do things...
No... Lets imagine that you're both children in a school yard, you see an other child fall down and you go and get a teacher to help, you don't need to know who the child is, what their name is, what class they are in... All you're doing is saying that boy over there fell down and hurt his knee, help him!
The teacher sees the boy on the ground bleeding and goes to help him, which he should have done anyway if he'd noticed...
The teacher is taller than the child and sees everything that happens in the yard. Sometimes kids fall down, get up and brush themselves off. Sometimes they are injured... but some kids always want to tell the teacher.

Um anyway the point is if God see everything and knows every then he's smart enough to know who they mean when they say "please make sure That Guy from the internet is ok"
but also he would already have seen your problem and either have done something to help or not based on his "mysterious ways".

joseph brand

Galvasean wrote: »

It's just a thing they do to annoy you and/or be condescending. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

I find that when someone religious says it to an Atheist, it sounds very condescending and arrogant. A Catholic just said to me today, ". . .just say 'I'll pray for you' to an Atheist, they hate that, ha ha".
My reply was that god made Atheists. (false statement) I didn't want an argument. Bad hangover.

But when they say it to each other over in that other forum, I don't believe they actually pray. I reckon, and I could be wrong, that it's like people using 'lol'. Just throw it in at the end of your post. It's like their Christian stamp.

I know it doesn't work, but I also think it's a White lie.

RichieC

Dearest Christ, please take a moment out of your busy day saving starving Africans( lol) to help bmwlover345 get his wife pregnant.

Amen

MagicMarker

When I was a kid I used to think that praying was like making a phone call. Once you'd made the sign of the cross that meant you were ''connected'', then once you'd finished and made the sign of the cross again that meant you'd ''hung up''.

And all that time there was no one on the other side!! :rolleyes:

Peregrinus

joseph brand wrote: »

Quick question.

Over in the Christianity forum, I have seen posters write 'I will pray for you'.

How does this work? I mean, my name is not joseph brand, I just picked it because when shortened, it becomes Jo Brand, get it? /tumbleweed.

If a poster wanted to pray for me, would they be praying for joseph? Or would they just say a prayer, thinking of me? (doesn't even know me, or my name).

Why do you think this would be a problem? Those who think that prayer has any validity or effect at all do not think that its validity or effect depends on the person praying knowing the correct or full name of the person being prayed for.

Zombrex

Well I imagine God, who is supposed to be everywhere and all knowing, would be able to figure out how they are talking about when they say they are going to pray for Zombrex. It is not like an email address, get one letter wrong and the whole thing is rejected.

Of course the idea that an omnipotent being would listen to us through prayer is ridiculous. But then that is because the idea was invented by ancient mankind, who really didn't think about it all that well.

biko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kbiUiRfnh8

kylith

AIUI, they hold you, meaning your username, in their minds while they pray and the Big Beardy Guy knows who you really are because he knows everything.

My mum likes to say 'I'll pray for you' with a wee smirk because she's teasing the atheist. I usually reply with 'Grand, if it makes you feel better' because we all know that that's what praying is about - not actually doing anything to help, but feeling like you did.

kylith

MagicMarker wrote: »

When I was a kid I used to think that praying was like making a phone call. Once you'd made the sign of the cross that meant you were ''connected'', then once you'd finished and made the sign of the cross again that meant you'd ''hung up''.

And all that time there was no one on the other side!! :rolleyes:

When I was a kid and there was quiet prayer time in school I used to 'pray' "Dear God, I hope you are well, and Jesus, and Mary and all the saints... I got some new crayons today...etc" cos I figured that all the guy heard all day was people asking him for jobs and babies and to cure sick people, and I thought he'd probably like someone to ask him how his day was going for once.

fatmammycat

It's just a meaningless worthless slightly tedious expression. It makes they prayee think they're doing something good/useful, as opposed to just talking to themselves.

"i'll pray that everyone eventually thinks the same way i do because im right"

dead one

bluewolf wrote: »

"i'll pray that everyone eventually thinks the same way i do because im right"

When lifes darkness takes it's flight..a Witch's Prayer returns the light.

okay

dead one

bluewolf wrote: »

okay

The traitor is dead, Pray for him. i have come now to ask. raise your Black Hand!"

MrPudding

RichieC wrote: »

Dearest Christ, please take a moment out of your busy day saving starving Africans( lol) to help bmwlover345 get his wife pregnant.

Amen

I prefer the "thank you god for taking the time out of your busy day allowing 3000 kids to die from malaria, countless others to die from a variety of other diseases, yet more to die in conflicts because you can't write a fcuking book in such a way that people agree what it means and allowing natural disasters to kill hundreds of thousands to help me score a goal in a football match. Your're the best!"

MrP

magicbastarder

change your name to lucifer. see how god copes with *that* prayer.

robindch

dead one wrote: »

The traitor is dead, Pray for him. i have come now to ask. raise your Black Hand!"

dead-one -- your posts are not contributing to this thread.

Please make some contribution to one side or the other of this debate, or refrain from posting.

thanks.

magicbastarder

dead one wrote: »

The traitor is dead, Pray for him. i have come now to ask. raise your Black Hand!"

are you a servant of the secret fire, wielder of the flame of Anor?

dead one

robindch wrote: »

dead-one -- your posts are not contributing to this thread.

robin, get some manner, and don't interrupt when two elders dragon are speaking. It's a joke and Dades, the hell guardian, allowed it, Lighten up!!!. He doesn't have problem with jokes. See below post.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76843995&postcount=135

magic wrote: »

are you a servant of the secret fire, wielder of the flame of Anor?

We the Dark Angels, we work for darkness.

legspin

dead one wrote: »

We the Dark Angels, we work for darkness.

Considering the ignorant and moronic superstitions you peddle around here that is the truest staement you have uttered yet.

Sarky

I'd expect a solicitor's letter from Games Workshop on the Dark Angels thing, dead one. They see all!

Dades

dead one wrote: »

robin, get some manner, and don't interrupt when two elders dragon are speaking. It's a joke and Dades, the hell guardian, allowed it, Lighten up!!!. He doesn't have problem with jokes. See below post.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76843995&postcount=135

A joke is something that people at least understand and even find amusing.

Just so you know - you've used up your "useless post quota" for this thread. No more.

Galvasean

dead one wrote: »

When lifes darkness takes it's flight..a Witch's Prayer returns the light.

In brightest day, in blackest night,
No evil shall escape my sight
Let those who worship evil's might,
Beware my power... Green Lantern's light!

Viper_JB

Just demand that if they do pray that you need at least 2 full Rosary's said, that should keep them busy for a while, but ya know they'll love the misery.

old hippy

I've had people pray for me. It's a nice gesture, I guess but always makes me feel awkward. One girl actually said a prayer for me in the middle of the pub :eek:

On Facebook, a very few of my friends/family come out with the occasional mention of a deity and all that religious stuff. I tend to keep quiet. It's more their friends who post the really odd "God's Law must be obeyed" statements, that I really want to comment on but I don't.

Chuck Stone

MagicMarker wrote: »

And all that time there was no one on the other side!! :rolleyes:

You can't prove there was no god listening. :mad:

old hippy

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You can't prove there was no god listening. :mad:

Depends if there was heavy breathing going on...

al28283

may the force be with you

old hippy

al28283 wrote: »

may the force be with you

But that's not a prayer, is it? It's just a silly made up quote from an ancient work of fiction that nobody in their right mind would subscribe to... oh, right, I get ya

Sarky

Things are getting bad for organised religion when George Lucas is a better producer than God.

Chuck Stone

I see the 'I'll pray for you' statement as more of a threat than benevolent intent.

It's not so much that the person praying for the heathen wants god to be nice to him - it's 'ratting out' the heathen to the vengeful one.

That's the great thing about believing in an deity and afterlife - you have a god who will be vindictive on your behalf after everyone is dead.

kylith

I must see if I can find it, but I'm fairly sure that I read an article a while back that found that telling someone who was ill that you'd pray for them decreased their chances of recovery because they started to think that if people were praying for them they must be a lot sicker than they were. Kind of a reverse placebo; a murderebo, if you will.

fisgon

kylith wrote: »

I must see if I can find it, but I'm fairly sure that I read an article a while back that found that telling someone who was ill that you'd pray for them decreased their chances of recovery because they started to think that if people were praying for them they must be a lot sicker than they were. Kind of a reverse placebo; a murderebo, if you will.

It was actually quite an extensive study on the effects of prayer on those recovering from illness. It was double blinded and fully acredited, and showed, surprise, surprise, that prayer has no beneficial effects on those prayed for, and in fact the group who knew that they were being prayed for actually recovered more slowly than the group who wasn't prayed for at all. There was no conclusion on why that was.

robindch

fisgon wrote: »

It was actually quite an extensive study on the effects of prayer on those recovering from illness.

That'll be the "Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP)":

http://www.templeton.org/newsroom/press_releases/060407step.html
http://www.templeton.org/what-we-fund/grants/study-of-the-therapeutic-effects-of-intercessory-prayer-step-replication-and-exp
http://www.templeton.org/pdfs/press_releases/060407STEP_paper.pdf

Summary: praying for people makes no difference to the rate of post-operative complications, unless you tell patients you're praying for them, in which case they have more complications.

marty1985

Has anyone here tried meditation?

I'm just wondering, because meditation has been extensively studied as a way of reducing physiological and psychological stress. I think the effects also apply to people who pray regularly, such as reduced stress, lower blood pressure, diminished anxiety, and so on.

I would be inclined to believe that praying helps the prayer, and whatever motives you might think the prayer has for saying they'll pray for you, let them at it.

But then, I'm reminded of AJ Jacobs and his funny book The Year Of Living Biblically. He, of course, didn't believe in any way that prayer could be anything but futile - perhaps there could be a deeper theological discussion about petitionary prayer and God's omniscience etc - and yet AJ came to love spending time praying for others for ten minutes because it was a time when he felt it was impossible to be self-centered, and because of his experiment, judged himself to be becoming a more compassionate person.

fisgon

marty1985 wrote: »

Has anyone here tried meditation?

I'm just wondering, because meditation has been extensively studied as a way of reducing physiological and psychological stress. I think the effects also apply to people who pray regularly, such as reduced stress, lower blood pressure, diminished anxiety, and so on.

I would be inclined to believe that praying helps the prayer, and whatever motives you might think the prayer has for saying they'll pray for you, let them at it.

I've no doubt that this is true, that praying helps the person who prays. It gives them a sense of control, even though this sense is illusory. It can also be a form of meditation, which also can have beneficial physiological effects. The rosary, for example, isn't really much different to transcendental meditation, with the prayers as a kind of mantra.

Yet the religious can't really go there, as admitting this is why people pray would be admitting that it is fundamentally a selfish act, for the benefit of the person praying. As for using this as a reason for promoting prayer, why not just try meditation instead.

marty1985

There are a lot of similarities in Buddhists' prayer beads and the rosary beads, but I wonder if that is actually the purpose of the rosary - the repetition, and the meditation that goes along with it (on the traditional mysteries of the rosary). And in Buddhism prayer is seen mainly as something that enhances meditation. Maybe they're the same thing, essentially.

But yes, I tend to agree that it's illusory, but I mean it without any derogatory implication. Cognitive psychologists tell us that we all live in a world of positive personal illusions, and that our psyches are healthier as a consequence. All of us, atheists and agnostics and theists, embrace positive illusions about our lives to sustain high self-esteem. As psychologist Shelley Taylor put it, people "have a distorted faith in their ability to control what goes on around them."

In other words, I see it as a placebo effect, but that's not a pejorative statement since the placebo effect can have a powerful healing impact.

irishh_bob

MrPudding wrote: »

I prefer the "thank you god for taking the time out of your busy day allowing 3000 kids to die from malaria, countless others to die from a variety of other diseases, yet more to die in conflicts because you can't write a fcuking book in such a way that people agree what it means and allowing natural disasters to kill hundreds of thousands to help me score a goal in a football match. Your're the best!"

MrP

admit it , your envious of those with that kind of self esteem , who believe god signaled them out of fortune , beit by winning an oscar , passing a driving test or getting the vice presidents job at some multinational , ego is a wonderfull thing , i miss mine now that its gone

irishh_bob

fisgon wrote: »

It was actually quite an extensive study on the effects of prayer on those recovering from illness. It was double blinded and fully acredited, and showed, surprise, surprise, that prayer has no beneficial effects on those prayed for, and in fact the group who knew that they were being prayed for actually recovered more slowly than the group who wasn't prayed for at all. There was no conclusion on why that was.

someone close to me died over a decade ago , they were not expected to make it through the night , i prayed like a SOB that night and they were still alive the next morning , they then had a turn nine days later and died

robindch

Sarky wrote: »

Things are getting bad for organised religion [...]

Well, what about this one:

The Archdiocese of Montreal takes out a newspaper ad encouraging people to pray for the city's underperforming hockey team:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1128915--catholic-church-urges-montreal-canadiens-fans-to-pray-for-a-playoff-berth

If the STEP study above is anything to go by, I hope the team doesn't know they're being prayed for. But they probably do, so I'm going to make a prediction: They're gonna do worse.

BTW, I'm sure it's just me, but "prions" reminds me of mad cow disease. I'm sure it's unintentional on the part of the Archdiocese.

Sarky

Named after misshapen, insidious entities that cause other, more properly formed entities to conform to their twisted and dangerous ideal?

No, that doesn't sound like something a church would do intentionally.

dead one

Dades wrote: »

A joke is something that people at least understand and even find amusing.

Just so you know - you've used up your "useless post quota" for this thread. No more.

my jokes amuse me, if you don't get amusement that's my not problem. The problem is in your head. my post aren't useless, these are pearls, dedicate your life to find the treasure

Galvasean wrote: »

In brightest day, in blackest night,
No evil shall escape my sight
Let those who worship evil's might,
Beware my power... Green Lantern's light!

i have no ghost
"The dead are sleeping in their sepulchres:
And, mouldering as they sleep, a thrilling sound,
Half sense half thought, among the darkness stirs,
Breathed from their wormy beds all living things around,
And, mingling with the still night and mute sky,
Its awful hush is felt inaudibly.

Sarky

Goo goo ga-joob?

Dades

dead one taking to a week's leave to reflect on how not to argue with mods in a thread.

And this thread has run it's course.