Carbon Or Groupset? Which way to go?

subscriber

Im heading into my second season of cycling this summer, and a very very entry level bike last year which I got second hand for about 400 weighting in at 9.8 kg, shamino sora groupset. No matter how much I train, and how many times I do the same time trials on the same 30km loop, I haven't been able to get my times down my more than 1.5 mins. disgrace ha ha!!

So im going doin CTW scheme soon and upgrading for the new season. Budget will be between 1200 - 1500 preferably on the lower end of the scale.

Anyway to the question at hand.. Which is a better investment, to go for something lightweight with as much carbon I can get my hands on for the money im spending or ignore the weight and focus on getting the best groupset as I can?? Which will be more beneficial in seeing the times tumble in the TT's over this season???

kenmc

why do you have to choose one or the other? why not carbon and a better groupset too?

triggermortis

I don't see too many carbon frames kitted out with Sora so you're going to improve in both areas by default

subscriber

i realise with an upgrade ill improve both ways but varying bikes will have more of one than the other for their price. Like full carbon with 105 or ya could get something with aluminium frame, carbon forks with ultegra or even dura ace groupset. Just wondering from which I will see more performance? Light weight bike or better components?

bcmf

Groupsets ,from the base level to top of the range, do the same job. In most cases the only sacrifice is weight.
Get a decent frame with decent wheels and you can upgrade the gruppo as needs be/funds allow

Tonyandthewhale

Yeah, frame and wheels should be your priority if you want to shave seconds of your time. Don't expect miracles though. I more expensive bike will be nicer to ride and should be a bit faster but it's not likely to be the difference between getting dropped and a podium place.

Leroy42

Weight isn't really a big factor, certianly not the weight saving between groupsets.

Most races in Ireland are mainly flat, so weight isn't really an issue. Ability of the components to do what is asked of them at the citical moments is more important, thats why a better groupset is important (how much difference between already high high Ultegra and DA is another question) but certainly a difference between Sora and Ultegra.

Weight of the frame, unless it a horse of a yoke, isn't too important, but flex, handling fit etc are all important. Get a good frame, but its better to pick one that fits you and feels right rather than go for carbon for carbons sake.

Loads of people get hund up on weight, and while it is better to have less weight most of the time, the difference between s sub kilo frame and a 1.3kg frame on a hill climb is counted in secs (depending on the lenght!!!!) so on a relatively flat course it will not make any noticeable difference.

As the other posters mentioned, by buying a better standard of bike the frame and groupset will be upgraded. Focus on getting the right frame for you, everything else can be changed (but will probably never need to be)

marketty

If you're only starting out the aluminium frame with sora is probably capable of more than you are so the gains from trading up may not be as dramatic as you think.
This is what I keep telling myself while drooling over €3000 dream bikes anyway!
From what ive read in my year or so on my similar bike, in terms of weight saving carbon frame and good wheels are generally most effective without having to spend an absolute fortune. Check out canyon though as their ultimate AL is fairly whopper for an aluminium bike and you'll get decent wheels and groupset too. Complete bike comes in lighter than carbon bikes from some other manufacturers, which have lovely light frames but heavy everything else.

Junior Jacon Jeese Jurger

Have a look at Canyon bikes. They do some top quality bikes at wholesale prices

Lumen

Forget about the speed, a €1200 bike will be much more fun to ride than a €400 bike. You're doing this for fun, right?

A Canyon Roadlite 6.0 (Shimano 105) or 6.0SL (SRAM Apex, but get the option for normal gearing) is all the bike you ever need.

As for going faster, learn to train properly. If you're into numbers then a Garmin 500 with an HR monitor is useful.

subscriber

Good advice all around , im getting more of a grasp of what's needed of a bike to preform better. As someone asked, yes it's all for fun and there will never be a podium place for me I know but Im still getting frustrated with seeing no improvements in my training and racing and think it's party down to the bike as much partly down to myself, but my current bike it a like pedalling a tin can full of stones at the moment. It's an awful piece of junk compared to some others I've test drove so definitely time to upgrade. Why do people put so much focus on getting a good rim set / wheels? I would have imagined that would have been the last thing to take care of in the sense of getting a good preforming bike. Was the the fundmental difference between peddling crappy aluminium wheels to to a set of mavic rims? Are they more rigid to provide a smoother roll or less rigid to allow flexibility or what's the focus of better rims....

kenmc

carbon wheels are faster cos they go "whoosh"

Lumen

subscriber wrote: »

Was the the fundmental difference between peddling crappy aluminium wheels to to a set of mavic rims? Are they more rigid to provide a smoother roll or less rigid to allow flexibility or what's the focus of better rims....

It really makes sod all difference, objectively, as long as the wheels are round, true, and properly tensioned. Nice stuff is nice.

Spend money on decent tyres, e.g. Continental GP4000S or whatever.

Lucifer-0

You can't get a Canyon on the bike to work scheme, online only afaik.

Lumen

Lucifer-0 wrote: »

You can't get a Canyon on the bike to work scheme, online only afaik.

That statement makes no sense. "The" bike to work scheme does care where the bike is purchased from.

Miklos

I suppose if you are looking to shave weight the most effective place to shed it would be in big moving parts like the wheelset though, no?

kenmc

NickWray wrote: »

I suppose if you are looking to shave weight the most effective place to shed it would be in big moving parts like the wheelset though, no?

Or your belly.

cdaly_

NickWray wrote: »

I suppose if you are looking to shave weight the most effective place to shed it would be in big moving parts like the wheelset though, no?

Or perhaps even bigger moving parts like the cyclist?...

AstraMonti

He might be lean already!

Miklos

kenmc wrote: »

Or your belly.

Well, yeh obviously. I couldn't care less about weight savings myself, all my bikes are steel!

kuro_man

surely the biggest difference between a second hand low-cost racer and a new one is geometry and fit?

Leisure cyclists can get away with buying on-line and tweaking as you go, but if I was actively competing I go to local bike shop(s) and test and fit as many as I could until I get the best aero/comfort ratio. That will improve your time and enjoyment regardless of equipment level/price.

subscriber

No possibility of bike to work scheme with canyon no? Sh1t anyway, cause there great value for what ya get.. U sure about that?? If not guess Ill have to start looking at the retailers.. Old bike sold today so time to start picking out something daycent to make me go 'whoosh' and all that. ... and no weight to be lost on the belly im afraid, only weight 12stone and im 5"10 so it will have to be bike weight. Any other recommendable brand to look at that are good value for money? I hear planet x are good value but don't really like there image a hole pile.

Lumen

subscriber wrote: »

No possibility of bike to work scheme with canyon no? Sh1t anyway, cause there great value for what ya get.. U sure about that??

Canyon can be purchased on BTW if your employer allows it.

subscriber

Any opinions on the carrera virago from halfords.. yes I went there. i know the stigma attached to halford's customer service reputation but the bike seems very decent for the price and thats all im really after, after sales service doesn't come under my list of priorities. All carbon frame, with 105 groupset and mavic rims. Doesn't seem to shabby for the price of 1200.

This is her: http://road.cc/content/review/52262-carrera-virago

C3PO

subscriber wrote: »

Any opinions on the carrera virago from halfords.. yes I went there. i know the stigma attached to halford's customer service reputation but the bike seems very decent for the price and thats all im really after, after sales service doesn't come under my list of priorities. All carbon frame, with 105 groupset and mavic rims. Doesn't seem to shabby for the price of 1200.

This is her: http://road.cc/content/review/52262-carrera-virago

Personally couldn't bring myself to buy a Carrera but I'm sure they're a grand bike! I'd try and get a few quid extra together and buy this;

http://planetxireland.com/products-page/sl-pro-carbon-bikes/planet-x-sl-pro-carbon-complete-bike-sram-rival/

subscriber

Thanks for the advice all around lads, the planet X was suggested a few times and went to view it in athlone yesterday but alas it was not for me, can't explain why but it just didn't feel right. Didn't form that instant bond with the bike on the first trial run that I think should be made so ultimately I continued my search... After taking a second look at the carrera, I left that as well on some sound advice from other people. Compared to what else I could get for my money, I was willing to battle on.. Coming highly suggested from people on here in other thread's This is what I ended up with... ---->>



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On offer at a cool 1K, Mix of ultegra and 105, light weight aluminium frame with a carbon fork, Schwalbe tyres and an absolute joy to ride!! Love her!!

route66

subscriber wrote: »

<snip>
... After taking a second look at the carrera, I left that as well on some sound advice from other people.
<snip>

Interested to hear what these other people said about the Carrera ?

BTW, Your new bike looks nice.

mp31

Nice bike!
I'd be interested to see how much faster your 30km loop times are with the new bike.