Mechanic done work that wasn't needed - Ripped off?

dillo2k10

Hi,

My car failed the NCT last week due to high emissions. I brought it to a garage who does NCT repairs, I gave them the NCT report and they "fixed it" charged my €400 and told me that my car will now pass the NCT.

Brought my car for the NCT today and it failed once again. The tester came out and told me that there was no point in testing my car because the problem wasnt fixed. He said that he seen that I got a new exhaust but that it wasn't the problem, he said I either need new spark plugs or a coil repack (something like that) because the engine was over fueling.

He said it should cost me about €60.

I am really annoyed, I had to pay €400 for repairs that wernt required and it still wasn't fixed. What can I do here? Does the garage have to give me a refund? Or is it just tough luck and I had to pay for what I didn't need?

I paid by card but I was thinking of just doing a charge back but not sure if that is the right idea.

Thanks

I failed an NCT after having a new CAT fitted many years ago, it passed the retest a few hours later (which was free after the garage rang them to complain). Don't jump to conclusions with this one OP.

dillo2k10

RoverJames wrote: »

I failed an NCT after having a new CAT fitted many years ago, it passed the retest a few hours later (which was free after the garage rang them to complain). Don't jump to conclusions with this one OP.

The man from the NCT centre came out and told me that the other work wasn't required. He was nice about it and even gave me a refund for the test. The engine light even came on so it's not just the cat.

Jimdagym

dillo2k10 wrote: »

The man from the NCT centre came out and told me that the other work wasn't required. He was nice about it and even gave me a refund for the test. The engine light even came on so it's not just the cat.

Best thing to do is go back down the garage and ask them what the craic is. Maybe go by a different garage first and get a quote on the basis of the NCT fail sheet.

Mar4ix

dillo2k10 wrote: »

The man from the NCT centre came out and told me that the other work wasn't required. He was nice about it and even gave me a refund for the test. The engine light even came on so it's not just the cat.

What car is it ? engine ?

Sometimes engine light indicates when lambda sensor (same, just different name - o2 or oxigen sensor), depend what car it is, it could be two sensors, recommend do computer diagnostics.

If you dont know when sparkplugs (if its petrol engine) been changed, change them also.

Go back to garage, and ask them finally fix car, or refund.

dillo2k10

dillo2k10 wrote: »

......... The tester came out and told me that there was no point in testing my car because the problem wasnt fixed...............

dillo2k10 wrote: »

The man from the NCT centre came out and told me that the other work wasn't required. He was nice about it and even gave me a refund for the test. The engine light even came on so it's not just the cat.

Just to clarify, they didn't actually retest the car?
So you don't actually know if the emissions are back in spec or not?

Go back to the garage and have a chat, don't go in all guns blazing though.

ozmo

Mar4ix wrote: »

What car is it ? engine ?

Sometimes engine light indicates when lambda sensor (same, just different name - o2 or oxigen sensor), depend what car it is, it could be two sensors, recommend do computer diagnostics.

If you dont know when sparkplugs (if its petrol engine) been changed, change them also.

Go back to garage, and ask them finally fix car, or refund.

60 might be a bit optimistic for a coil....

I had coil pack on our misfiring Ford Focus replaced twice (cost 200 first time - got discount on second) until they realised it was just the spark plug leads.

Spark plug leads are very cheap (20 to 40 euros)- usually no tools needed at all to fit a set.

dillo2k10

Mar4ix wrote: »

What car is it ? engine ?

Sometimes engine light indicates when lambda sensor (same, just different name - o2 or oxigen sensor), depend what car it is, it could be two sensors, recommend do computer diagnostics.

If you dont know when sparkplugs (if its petrol engine) been changed, change them also.

Go back to garage, and ask them finally fix car, or refund.

Its a 2001 Ford Focus 1.6

RoverJames wrote: »

Just to clarify, they didn't actually retest the car?
So you don't actually know if the emissions are back in spec or not?

Go back to the garage and have a chat, don't go in all guns blazing though.

He did the emissions test but then came out and told me that he wasn't going to do the rest of the test because its going to fail again on the emissions.

I went over to the garage today and they told me to drop it back over to them tomorrow.

He said that the coil pack/over fueling didn't show up on the diagnostics when they done it the first time.

Im not sure if they are looking to be paid again or not! and I dont know if I should pay again.

maceocc2

He will most likely charge you, I'd be surprised if they don't, make sure you discuss money with them before giving over the keys.

ozmo

maceocc2 wrote: »

He will most likely charge you, I'd be surprised if they don't, make sure you discuss money with them before giving over the keys.

know I mentioned it already - but you mentioned spark plugs and coils again - seriously - get the leads checked first - it more likely to be the problem than coils - and cheaper to fix - maybe even ford might even pay for the fix for free??

there is a design flaw in the Ford Focus - they need different shaped spark-plug leads to keep the water out - another garage told me its a very common fault and ford have a special part to fix the flaw.


"It is caused by rain water leaking through the washer jets on the bonnet which happen to sit directly above the spark plug wells. They fill with water and because the plug lead is such a good fit, there is no misfire, so it goes un-noticed until such time as you try disconnecting the lead- and then you find all 4 plugs sitting in an inch of rusty water. I managed to suck out a good half pint with a piece of plastic tube-most unpleasant.
But that's the source of your problem - shoddy build."

dillo2k10

ozmo wrote: »

know I mentioned it already - but you mentioned spark plugs and coils again - seriously - get the leads checked first - it more likely to be the problem than coils - and cheaper to fix - maybe even ford might even pay for the fix for free??

there is a design flaw in the Ford Focus - they need different shaped spark-plug leads to keep the water out - another garage told me its a very common fault and ford have a special part to fix the flaw.


"It is caused by rain water leaking through the washer jets on the bonnet which happen to sit directly above the spark plug wells. They fill with water and because the plug lead is such a good fit, there is no misfire, so it goes un-noticed until such time as you try disconnecting the lead- and then you find all 4 plugs sitting in an inch of rusty water. I managed to suck out a good half pint with a piece of plastic tube-most unpleasant.
But that's the source of your problem - shoddy build."

I will mention it to him tomorrow when I go over. Im sure ford wont be doing it for free, its an 11 year old car.

George Dalton

I find it hard to believe that any garage with even half a clue would mistakenly replace parts of an exhaust system instead of fixing an ignition issue like coil or plug leads. Is it not possible that the original issue was to do with the exhaust and that the coil/plug lead fault has only happened in the meantime?

dillo2k10

George Dalton wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that any garage with even half a clue would mistakenly replace parts of an exhaust system instead of fixing an ignition issue like coil or plug leads. Is it not possible that the original issue was to do with the exhaust and that the coil/plug lead fault has only happened in the meantime?

I don't think so, but I could be wrong.

I think that they just fitted the Exhaust and Cat because they couldn't find another problem.

Also the car has had a bit of trouble starting in the morning time the last few months and has been shaky when idle, feeling quite underpowered and a bit noisy I was told that that could be because of the faulty coil pack.

George Dalton

So if the NCT guy knew there was a coilpack problem from just looking at the car for 5 minutes how come the garage couldn't spot it? I can't believe that any garage could be that clueless to be honest. They wouldn't be in business too long if they were. I still think there has to be more to the story than you think.

pippip

I'm thinking the garage did a visual inspection and spotted a flaw in the exhaust system and assumed that was the problem without checking further.

Do you have the two sets of emissions readings? if there is no difference i would be demanding further repairs be done free of charge. I know trouble shooting a problem can be hit and miss but they should have been able to check the emissions themselves before handing the car back to you.

dillo2k10

George Dalton wrote: »

So if the NCT guy knew there was a coilpack problem from just looking at the car for 5 minutes how come the garage couldn't spot it? I can't believe that any garage could be that clueless to be honest. They wouldn't be in business too long if they were. I still think there has to be more to the story than you think.

Maybe there is, to be honest I just don't know, and the NCT guy and two others were looking at my engine and the computer for about 30 minutes and all they were doing was the emissions test, so they didn't just instantly know.

They are quite a large garage with a good few branches so I assumed they would have been able to do it properly, but people do make mistakes.

I'm just going to wait until tomorrow and see what excuse/explanation they give.

pippip wrote: »

I'm thinking the garage did a visual inspection and spotted a flaw in the exhaust system and assumed that was the problem without checking further.

Do you have the two sets of emissions readings? if there is no difference i would be demanding further repairs be done free of charge. I know trouble shooting a problem can be hit and miss but they should have been able to check the emissions themselves before handing the car back to you.

They used to only do exhausts so that would be what they are used to doing.

They have signs up saying NCT emissions testing so I would have thought they would have checked it.

The NCT chap said there was a but of a difference but thats because a new cat would have reduced emissions anyway and I have been using dipatane since I had the car repaired so that would have made a slight difference.

walus

Sorry to say that, but you have been ripped off. It does not matter where you service/repair your car but who does it. If the car had been diagnosed properly your car would have passed the NCT.

George Dalton

walus wrote: »

Sorry to say that, but you have been ripped off. It does not matter where you service/repair your car but who does it. If the car had been diagnosed properly your car would have passed the NCT.

This is speculation presented as fact. You have no way of knowing if what you say is true.

dillo2k10

dillo2k10 wrote: »

...................

They are quite a large garage with a good few branches so I assumed they would have been able to do it properly, but people do make mistakes. ........................


They used to only do exhausts so that would be what they are used to doing.

.................

Used they do tyres too ? :pac:

Gophur

A blowing exhaust could also result in an NCT emissions failure.

dillo2k10

RoverJames wrote: »

Used they do tyres too ? :pac:

Yes they use to do tyres too.

Gophur wrote: »

A blowing exhaust could also result in an NCT emissions failure.

The exhaust and stuff connected to it was replaced by them, but it wasn't the problem.

walus

George Dalton wrote: »

This is speculation presented as fact. You have no way of knowing if what you say is true.

No, i do not think so. The guy pays them to do a job - fix whatever causes the car to fail the high emission test. They replace some parts, in this case exhaust parts, and give the car back to the owner. The car subsequently fails the test again. The car clearly has not been fixed. If that is not a rip off - then what is it?

dillo2k10

walus wrote: »

No, i do not think so. The guy pays them to do a job - fix whatever causes the car to fail the high emission test. They replace some parts, in this case exhaust parts, and give the car back to the owner. The car subsequently fails the test again. The car clearly has not been fixed. If that is not a rip off - then what is it?

Thats kind of along the lines of what I was thinking,

I paid them to make the car in the correct condition to pass the NCT emissions test. They told me that if I paid the €400 then my car would pass the NCT. But it didn't pass the NCT and so they didn't provide the service I paid for.

Kenny Logins

walus wrote: »

No, i do not think so. The guy pays them to do a job - fix whatever causes the car to fail the high emission test. They replace some parts, in this case exhaust parts, and give the car back to the owner. The car subsequently fails the test again. The car clearly has not been fixed. If that is not a rip off - then what is it?

I have to agree. If you're paying a garage to do what is necessary to pass the NCT it's not good enough for them to simply replace some parts so you can have another go at it. They should have checked the emissions themselves.

Nissan doctor

Given that coils a a common failure on a focus, could it not be possible that the coil failure unfortunatly happened around the time the exhaust work was done?

A misfiring car is as obvious a fault as possible to any mechanic so as George said, it sounds a bit suspect that they would have replaced the exhaust while the car was running poorly and misefiring.

@OP, is the car running the same now as it was the whole time? i.e before the test and before the replacement exhaust parts, or is it the lack of power etc only since?

dillo2k10

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Given that coils a a common failure on a focus, could it not be possible that the coil failure unfortunatly happened around the time the exhaust work was done?

A misfiring car is as obvious a fault as possible to any mechanic so as George said, it sounds a bit suspect that they would have replaced the exhaust while the car was running poorly and misefiring.

@OP, is the car running the same now as it was the whole time? i.e before the test and before the replacement exhaust parts, or is it the lack of power etc only since?

Yes the car is the same as it has been the last 2-3 months. Nothing has changed since the NCT or the repairs. The only difference is that the engine light came on when it came out of the NCT for the second time.

George Dalton

What you guys are saying is speculation based on probability. You may be right or you may be wrong.

Without seeing the car or any actual figures or evidence of any sort such as the NCT emissions readings before and after the work was carried out nobody is in a position to make a definitive judgement in this case.

How does anybody know that the catalytic converter didn't need to be replaced? You don't.

Maybe it had completely failed. Maybe it was in 100% working order. I don't know the answer. You don't know. The OP doesn't know.

How do you know the ignition related problem didn't develop after the repair was carried out? You don't know one way or the other.

As I said earlier in the thread I find it difficult to believe that a professional garage would mistakenly replace a catalytic converter instead of a coilpack. The symptoms of each problem are in no way similar.

walus

dillo2k10, take the car back to them and ask to have it fixed within the money you have already paid to have it fixed. If they refuse to do it I would cut my losses there and take it elsewhere.

dillo2k10

dillo2k10 wrote: »

...........The only difference is that the engine light came on when it came out of the NCT for the second time.

A fairly significant point really.

dillo2k10

walus wrote: »

dillo2k10, take the car back to them and ask to have it fixed within the money you have already paid to have it fixed. If they refuse to do it I would cut my losses there and take it elsewhere.

I left it in with them a few hours ago they said they will have it fully diagnosed within an hour but they haven't contacted me.

If they do try to charge me for repairs I will refuse to pay. I also don't think that I should just cut my looses, I believe that I am in the right here and so I will defend myself/ my car.

George Dalton wrote: »

How do you know the ignition related problem didn't develop after the repair was carried out? You don't know one way or the other.

They told me that the overfueling would have caused the cat to burn out.

And even if the cat and other stuff did still need to be replaced I shouldn't have to pay more, they told me that the car would pass the NCT if I paid them to fix the car. I paid them, the car didn't pass the NCT.

I paid just under €400 to have it repaired, if I knew it was actually going to cost me closer to €600 I wouldn't have got it repaired, I would have just sold the car, or left it in the garden.

walus

I would have thought that the cat went because the engine was running rich and I'm not a mechanic! Not the other way around like some people suggest here. Whoever was doing a job on your car should not call himself a professional. I would imagine that a professional mechanic would want to find a problem at its roots first, fix it and then replace parts that were damaged by it.

dillo2k10

walus wrote: »

I would have thought that the cat went because the engine was running rich and I'm not a mechanic! Not the other way around like some people suggest here. Whoever was doing a job on your car should not call himself a professional. I would imagine that a professional mechanic would want to find a problem at its roots first, fix it and then replace parts that were damaged by it.

They have now called me back.

They said I need a new Lamda (somthing like that) sensor. He said it will cost €80. Not sure if I should just pay and argue with them.

walus

Ask them to do it for free as you already paid to have it fixed. If they refuse take it to a different mechanic and see if he confirms it is lambda sensor. It should still cost the same money if the sensor is gone. I would not trust this crowd anymore.

Third_Echelon

I have the Mark 2 Focus 2006 reg 1.6 litre and I had to get the spark plug leads replaced a few years ago due to the design fault/rainwater issue. Ford did it for free then as it was under warranty.

A few months ago it started misfiring, under-powered etc. Drove it for a week or so like that and then got the diagnostics test done at a Ford dealer. It was the Igntion Coil (coil pack) that was gone... (no damage to Cat thank god)

They quoted me €360 to replace the coil pack and spark plug leads. Told them to take a hike at that price.

I looked up online and in the Haynes manual what was involved in doing it myself and it is very easy to replace. Bought the parts myself. Ignition Coil was €65, replacement spark plug leads were €25, so for €90 and 10 minutes work, I saved myself a lot of cash... Just remember the order/position that the leads are in before you replace them. Take a picture or something... That is important, as I found out ;-) (thank god i took a picture)

Bought them on micksgarage.ie found them to be very good on price and service.

walus

dillo2k10 wrote: »

They have now called me back.

They said I need a new Lamda (somthing like that) sensor. He said it will cost €80. Not sure if I should just pay and argue with them.

On a second thought if they say it is a lambda sensor now you might not have needed a new cat in a first place, which is something that explains why the NCT guy looked surprised when you explained to him what had been done to the car before the re-test.

dillo2k10

walus wrote: »

On a second thought if they say it is a lambda sensor now you might not have needed a new cat in a first place, which is something that explains why the NCT guy looked surprised when you explained to him what had been done to the car before the re-test.

Really? So I might not have needed a new cat? But I don't think that there is any way of me confirming this as I dont have the old cat.

Nissan doctor

If the engine light only just came on after the last NCT then whatever problem is there now has only occured since then.

If the same problem was there for the last few months then you'd have had the light on before.

Is this a dublin only based chain or country wide?....pm if you like.

Nissan doctor

dillo2k10 wrote: »

Really? So I might not have needed a new cat? But I don't think that there is any way of me confirming this as I dont have the old cat.

Without knowing what the original diagnosis found or how they came to their original conclusion then its simply not possible to speculate as to what was needed or not and people doing so on an internet forum only complicates matters IMO.

dillo2k10

I just decided to leave it in with them and get it repaired. (and pay for it)

I can't really say that they purposely gave me the wrong parts or just got me to have something more expensive done.

The guy Iv been dealing with seemed very genuine so Im just going to trust them this time.

dillo2k10

My car has failed the NCT for the third time on Friday.

First I paid for the exhaust and a new cat.

Then it failed the NCT again.

Then I paid for a new lambda sensor

Then it failed the NCT again.

I compared the NCT report before I gave it to them and the last NCT report. The low idle has improved a bit but still extremely high and the high idle has gotten even worse!

And now I have to pay for a full NCT again because its taking so long. Am I allowed to name the garage on here?

walus

Sorry to hear that dilo2k10. I think your only chance now is to go to a different mechanic. Maybe here on the forum are guys who could suggest a garage around your place or even some who could do the repair for you.

Is there anybody who still thinks the guy has not been ripped off?

Draupnir

Take your car to a Ford dealer, so it might cost a bit more in the outset but the price is justified by the lack of this kind of shenanigans.

I would pursue a refund from the garage who did this work for you as they are obviously not very good at being a garage.

Soarer

dillo2k10 wrote: »

Am I allowed to name the garage on here?

If you're not, you should be.

How many more people are being caught out by "garages" like this? I'd be disgusted if I went to the same garage after reading this thread, only to find out afterwards that I could've avoided them if they'd been named.

If you got food poisoning twice from the same restaurant, you'd name them.

Kenny Logins

TBH it doesn't come across as being a proper garage, more like a tyre/exhaust fitter 'having a go at it'.

flyingsnail

Soarer wrote: »

If you're not, you should be.

How many more people are being caught out by "garages" like this? I'd be disgusted if I went to the same garage after reading this thread, only to find out afterwards that I could've avoided them if they'd been named.

If you got food poisoning twice from the same restaurant, you'd name them.

I think the problem there is the possibility of being sued for defamation. Another site I am on has gotten around this by having users list garages they trust to do work.

Soarer

flyingsnail wrote: »

I think the problem there is the possibility of being sued for defamation. Another site I am on has gotten around this by having users list garages they trust to do work.

But how can you get done for defamation when you've used the same garage twice to fix a certain problem (leaving you out of pocket over €400)m and the problem persists?
That's just fact, and there's no opinion/hearsay involved.
Even the NCT guy would be an independant witness!

Need to get Judge Judy onto this!

Nissan doctor

Draupnir wrote: »

Take your car to a Ford dealer, so it might cost a bit more in the outset but the price is justified by the lack of this kind of shenanigans.

I would pursue a refund from the garage who did this work for you as they are obviously not very good at being a garage.

Its very nieve to presume that bringing a car to a main dealer for a non standard fault would be any better.

You couln't imagin how many cars I've seen where main dealers couldn't find the problem either and they are every bit as likely to just tell you that you need major parts just so they don't have to bother really getting into it. Their major advantage in getting away with this?.......people having the opinion that you have.

EPM

Soarer wrote: »

If you're not, you should be.

How many more people are being caught out by "garages" like this? I'd be disgusted if I went to the same garage after reading this thread, only to find out afterwards that I could've avoided them if they'd been named.

If you got food poisoning twice from the same restaurant, you'd name them.

Unfortunately it's not as simple as that. I'm not doubting the OP for a second but if naming and shaming was permitted what mechanism is there to stop someone setting up an account and then concocting a story in a bid to tarnish a garages reputation?

As a result we need to be quite strict.

Soarer

That's fair enough for a new user that uses their first post to badmouth someone.
But users that have been registered for more than 12 months and have 1000+ posts like the OP should be given the benefit of the doubt.

dillo2k10

I think everything is getting sorted out today. They said it wont cost me any extra to have it fixed.

And if it doesn't get fixed then someone from boards who works in one of their branches has offered to help me out

hi5

dillo2k10 wrote: »

I think everything is getting sorted out today. They said it wont cost me any extra to have it fixed.

And if it doesn't get fixed then someone from boards who works in one of their branches has offered to help me out

But the actual problem may only cost €20 to fix and in the meantime they made €480 out of you.
What they should do is give you back your old exhaust and lamda, refund your money and start afresh.