Radio vs GSM

machiavellianme · 12-02-2012 9:02pm #1

Hi,
After reading lots of posts in this forum I have a few questions that I cant seem to get answers to.
In regards to GSM, I am aware of blockers but was wondering why radio isnt effected in the same way?
What are the radio frequencies, do they require high power transmission and are they narrow or broad band?
Roughly how much extra would it cost to get a system with a radio backup to PSTN for an average 4 bed semi?
Is there anything safer than this?

Apologies for all the questions, but I would be grateful for any help. Thanks.

Thunderbird2 · 12-02-2012 9:47pm

Radio costs from €400 - €450 a year to monitor and it has to be monitored. The unit itself costs around the same

KoolKid · 12-02-2012 9:59pm

A GSM Jammer costs less than $50
To jam a radio signal , presuming you know the frequency, would take a much more powerfull signal & a much more expensive device.
The prices Thunderbird quoted are around right.

machiavellianme · 12-02-2012 10:46pm

Thanks guys. So from the 450 mentioned above, do you reckon it is worth it compared to GSM?

Thunderbird2 · 12-02-2012 10:49pm

Well if the budget allows then yes. But remember you have to have it monitored or else its useless. €400 - €450 for the unit then another €400-€450 for monitoring

kub · 12-02-2012 10:55pm

machiavellianme wrote: »

Hi,

In regards to GSM, I am aware of blockers but was wondering why radio isnt effected in the same way?
What are the radio frequencies, do they require high power transmission and are they narrow or broad band?

Being completely honest off the top of my head I do not know the radio frequencies or whether they are narrow or broadband.

But even if I did, this is not the place to be to be saying that, as this is a public forum and God only knows who is reading it.

altor · 13-02-2012 8:07pm

machiavellianme wrote: »

Hi,
After reading lots of posts in this forum I have a few questions that I cant seem to get answers to.
In regards to GSM, I am aware of blockers but was wondering why radio isnt effected in the same way?
What are the radio frequencies, do they require high power transmission and are they narrow or broad band?
Roughly how much extra would it cost to get a system with a radio backup to PSTN for an average 4 bed semi?
Is there anything safer than this?

Apologies for all the questions, but I would be grateful for any help. Thanks.

Other that a polling GSM like the dualcom, radio is the most secure, hence the price it costs. Although the polling dualcom can be blocked the monitoring station will pick up on a missed poll and act upon it.
The size of your home will have no bearing on the price as it is connected to the alarm system.

Thunderbird2 · 13-02-2012 9:00pm

I was quoted €310 for a dual com GSM + €65 installed... On average how many times a day does it poll?

altor · 13-02-2012 9:11pm

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

I was quoted €310 for a dual com GSM + €65 installed... On average how many times a day does it poll?

Depends on what it is set up for. How Much where they charging to have it monitored?

Thunderbird2 · 13-02-2012 9:18pm

€140 + VAT

altor · 13-02-2012 9:22pm

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

€140 + VAT

Handy few quid for him there

Thunderbird2 · 13-02-2012 9:31pm

Really? I thought that was a good price... Eircom wanted €250 for monitoring and €398 for the GSM unit, With the first company i can use my digi + UPC €35 to connect it up and €140+ vat for monitoring

^^^ feel free to edit this if naming companies and prices arent allowed

altor · 13-02-2012 10:06pm

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

Really? I thought that was a good price... Eircom wanted €250 for monitoring and €398 for the GSM unit, With the first company i can use my digi + UPC €35 to connect it up and €140+ vat for monitoring

^^^ feel free to edit this if naming companies and prices arent allowed

The dualcom costs about €200 and that is for if you want it to be monitoring the line and sim. Cheaper again if you just want it for the polling. Monitoring cost is a good price though.

Thunderbird2 · 13-02-2012 10:10pm

it was €280 for an unit called adad ( something along those lines) and €310 for the HKC gsm... I was told both are dual com

altor · 13-02-2012 10:15pm

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

it was €280 for an unit called adad ( something along those lines) and €310 for the HKC gsm... I was told both are dual com

Be very wary if they told you that!
The HKC GSM can not poll to a monitoring station.
Find out the name of the polling device.

machiavellianme · 14-02-2012 5:56pm

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

€140 + VAT

Is that per annum? and additional to regular line monitoring?

altor · 14-02-2012 5:59pm

machiavellianme wrote: »

Is that per annum? and additional to regular line monitoring?

That is for standard monitoring using a GSM, not a dualcom.

machiavellianme · 14-02-2012 6:35pm

ah, ok, so I assume using a dualcom and/or phone line monitoring would cost a lot more?
What HCK models (if any) are dualcom capable?

altor · 14-02-2012 6:43pm

machiavellianme wrote: »

ah, ok, so I assume using a dualcom and/or phone line monitoring would cost a lot more?
What HCK models (if any) are dualcom capable?

All bar the quantum. It gets connected into the outputs.

TakeaBowSon · 01-05-2012 2:36pm

altor wrote: »

Other that a polling GSM like the dualcom, radio is the most secure, hence the price it costs. Although the polling dualcom can be blocked the monitoring station will pick up on a missed poll and act upon it.
The size of your home will have no bearing on the price as it is connected to the alarm system.

Just to confirm: A Dualcom GSM can be blocked and should a poll be missed then the Gardai will not act on it as it is not a verified alarm signal.

There is alot of misinformation out there about GSM blockers. The facts are
1. Any alarm monitoring system that relies on the cellular network can be blocked and is vulnerable.
2. Monitoring that is Radio based cannot be blocked and is far more secure.

altor · 01-05-2012 7:13pm

TakeaBowSon wrote: »

Just to confirm: A Dualcom GSM can be blocked and should a poll be missed then the Gardai will not act on it as it is not a verified alarm signal.

There is alot of misinformation out there about GSM blockers. The facts are
1. Any alarm monitoring system that relies on the cellular network can be blocked and is vulnerable.
2. Monitoring that is Radio based cannot be blocked and is far more secure.

If there is a phone line or not connected with a Dualcom unit then 5 failed polls (Total Path Failure) in 15 minutes is the time before any action is taken. The unit polls every 3 minutes.

Radio is more secure but anyone claiming it cant be blocked does not know how the system works.
It can but would take military style equipment to do so. That is why it is more secure.

TakeaBowSon · 01-05-2012 7:39pm

altor wrote: »

TakeaBowSon wrote: »

Just to confirm: A Dualcom GSM can be blocked and should a poll be missed then the Gardai will not act on it as it is not a verified alarm signal.

There is alot of misinformation out there about GSM blockers. The facts are
1. Any alarm monitoring system that relies on the cellular network can be blocked and is vulnerable.
2. Monitoring that is Radio based cannot be blocked and is far more secure.

If there is a phone line or not connected with a Dualcom unit then 5 failed polls (Total Path Failure) in 15 minutes is the time before any action is taken. The unit polls every 3 minutes.

Radio is more secure but anyone claiming it cant be blocked does not know how the system works.
It can but would take military style equipment to do so. That is why it is more secure.

I think we are on the same page here. For all intent and purposes radio cannot be blocked. This military style equipment would need to be at various repeater sites at the same time and be switched on simultaneously. Very few governments never mind criminals would have the resources to so this. Dualcom devices and other GSM devices on the other hand can be blocked with a €50 jammer bought over the Internet.

altor · 01-05-2012 7:58pm

TakeaBowSon wrote: »

I think we are on the same page here. For all intent and purposes radio cannot be blocked. This military style equipment would need to be at various repeater sites at the same time and be switched on simultaneously. Very few governments never mind criminals would have the resources to so this. Dualcom devices and other GSM devices on the other hand can be blocked with a €50 jammer bought over the Internet.

I would not claim it cant be blocked.
We do agree that a GSM can be blocked easily, same as a dual com but there is at lease some sort of action if there is a path failure with the dual com compared to a standard GSM.

TakeaBowSon · 01-05-2012 8:08pm

altor wrote: »

I would not claim it cant be blocked.
We do agree that a GSM can be blocked easily, same as a dual com but there is at lease some sort of action if there is a path failure with the dual com compared to a standard GSM.

Not really. Gardai won't respond as it will not be a verified message. The monitoring station can send someone out but by that stage the criminals will be long gone.

Dualcom is as redundant as any standard GSM system now.

altor · 01-05-2012 8:23pm

TakeaBowSon wrote: »

Not really. Gardai won't respond as it will not be a verified message. The monitoring station can send someone out but by that stage the criminals will be long gone.

Dualcom is as redundant as any standard GSM system now.

The Guards wont respond to any alarm with out a keyholder attending the premises, unless it is an emergency.

Redundant, I would have to disagree. 5 missed polls is enough for action to be taken, this should be less as is in the UK. With a GSM there is no response as no one knows it has being blocked.
Funny enough the Dualcom is being integrated into control panels in the UK, although they does have lesser polling time than we have over here to get a faster response.

Jnealon · 02-05-2012 6:13am

TakeaBowSon wrote: »

Not really. Gardai won't respond as it will not be a verified message. The monitoring station can send someone out but by that stage the criminals will be long gone.

Dualcom is as redundant as any standard GSM system now.

This is the major flaw in the Dualcom on offer here, 15min response for a dual path fail and only a keyholder response at that.
The risk of a dual path fail is quite low in urban areas as most services are underground but it's too risky in rural areas
I plan to put this to DC when I head over to IFSEC.

"DualCom Inside" as they like to call it has been on the go for a while now

RTG · 04-05-2012 7:41am

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

I was quoted €310 for a dual com GSM + €65 installed... On average how many times a day does it poll?

€310 per year or to buy the device? Do you have to pay for DualCom polling separately or is it in the monitoring cost?

Jnealon · 04-05-2012 9:52am

No it's included in the annual cost

RTG · 04-05-2012 10:36am

Ok. So to clarify - to buy DualCom device costs €310 plus installation and that's one off payment. Then you pay €140 every year for monitoring and polling. Is that correct? What if you have a phone line from UPC?

altor · 04-05-2012 9:19pm

RTG wrote: »

Ok. So to clarify - to buy DualCom device costs €310 plus installation and that's one off payment. Then you pay €140 every year for monitoring and polling. Is that correct? What if you have a phone line from UPC?

The Dualcom have a once off installation fee for the equipment then the cost of the monitoring has to be paid every year. The international which polls every 3 minutes sim cost is included in the monitoring fee for the year. If you have a UPC line it can be connected to the unit to monitor this also.

Radio vs GSM

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