Bmw 645 or Audi S4?

andromeda76

Hi,
I've been thinking of getting a Bmw 645. But now im starting to lean towards an Audi s4. Just wondering if anybody has had any experience with either of the cars. reliablity and running costs and so on?

George Dalton

Which model S4? What is your budget or what year cars are we talking about?

andromeda76

Something like this?

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/S4/4.2-V8-3/201146205598740/advert?channel=CARS

George Dalton

I have never driven or worked on a 645i so can't really comment on them at all. I am not a fan of how they look which would rule one out for me but I know some people love them.

I have looked after a few of those V8 S4s over the years and I think they are a fantastic machine. Lovely to drive with a peach of an engine. Not generally troublesome either and parts are reasonable for them considering they are a top end motor with a 4.2 V8 in them. They are pretty dire on fuel alright but that goes with the territory I suppose just like the extortionate motor tax

rebel.ranter

They are different cars really a GT Cruiser with effortless power & a sports saloon car. There's a few guys over on BMW-driver.net have 645i, worth checking out what they have to say on the BMW. There are potential issues with active steering & a pipe that goes down the middle of the V of the engine. I've a 630i myself & I can give some comments on the non engine/drive train items:
- ride is quite hard with 19' & run flats
- track rod ends get well abused with the big wheel/tyres
- it doesn't handle like a sports car, I'd say my e39 handles much better
- sport seats are much more supportive & comfortable (just my opinion)
- no room at all in the back, only 2 seats there that are only big enough for a child
- indicator lamps have a tendency to mist up
Other interesting things but not necessarily problems:
- rear bootlid & front wings are made from plastic
- bonnet, roof & doors are made of aluminium
- push button start came in in 2006 (+ & - to this)
- comes standard with auto dip passenger side mirror when reverse is selected, lots of standard kit actually
- however cup holder didn't come as standard!
- electric thermostat in these can fail without any really noticeable issues, will throw fault codes
There's loads I've left out/forgotten.

andromeda76

Cheers for the reply. Yeah its a mixed bag with the 645 when it comes to looks. I personally like the shape. But i also like how the S4 is rare. You dont see many of them knocking around, well not real ones anyway.

George Dalton

andromeda76 wrote: »

Cheers for the reply. Yeah its a mixed bag with the 645 when it comes to looks. I personally like the shape. But i also like how the S4 is rare. You dont see many of them knocking around, well not real ones anyway.

Ah yes the 1.9 TDI S4/RS4 brigade have a lot to answer for alright. In a way they have made the real thing less desirable but speaking from experience it can be amusing when an S4 TDI driver mistakes your actual S4 for a TDI and tries to race you from a set of traffic lights

bazz26

M3?

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201141204962714

Big Nasty

Don't like the front of the 6er at all, looks good from the rear though. Personally I would go with an S4 Avant or RS4 - I think they look much better!

Nforce

With that sort of budget/engine size I'd be looking at one of these... http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/RS6/4.2-V8-B/413245504691120/advert?channel=CARS

tossy

George Dalton wrote: »

it can be amusing when an S4 TDI driver mistakes your actual S4 for a TDI and tries to race you from a set of traffic lights

I'm appalled!

pippip

Nforce wrote: »

With that sort of budget/engine size I'd be looking at one of these... http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/RS6/4.2-V8-B/413245504691120/advert?channel=CARS

I'm sure the op would prefer an RS but that one has 3 times the mileage compared to the s4 above

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I had a 645ci for a good while and would make the following comments.
1. Great looking car IMHO, still see them and think they look great.
2. The v8 has great power and a great (if too subdued) sound.
3. Its a point a squirt sort of car, quick acceleration but no real drama.
4. Interior is nice and seats are comfortable, back seat are a total joke
5. Getting old now, the v8 engine is pretty low tech. Relatively reliable however watch the cooling system. 23 mpg was my mixed driving figure. 333bhp is a little disappointing from a 4.4 V8 these days but the torque allows effortless driving.
6. Active steering is cack, dead feel to the steering.
7. The dynamics leave a lot to be desired, understeer all the time and the back end can be lively in the wet even at relatively low speed.

Should be a lot cheaper to buy than a S4. Audi's do nothing for me but I am a fanboy so don't take my opinion on that.

mickdw

What bmw have you got now fitzgeme?

rebel.ranter

mickdw wrote: »

What bmw have you got now fitzgeme?

An ould "family" car :rolleyes::p

rebel.ranter

mickdw wrote: »

What bmw have you got now fitzgeme?

An ould "family" car :rolleyes::p

I forgot to add that there's no spare wheel, and more importantly there's no room in the spare wheel well for even a space saver wheel. The battery & part of the fuse box now live in the spare wheel well.

richardsheil

Did you consider Merc ClS?

Lambe and O' Connor have a v8. http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/CLS-Class/500-V8-D/201133203935992/advert?channel=CARS

The colour and interior of that one is amazing.

Idbatterim

just browsing donedeal and this 6 series seems to be excellent value...

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2865873

... looks to be a trader selling it, new toy purchased will be for sale next week :pac:

Idbatterim

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2878530

or how about this?

Alanstrainor

Idbatterim wrote: »

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2878530

or how about this?

Such a fugly car...even if it was relatively standard it'd be ugly!

Matt Simis

RWD 6er if you want fun and AWD Audi if you want to assuredly always get there. Given our roads and weather arent that bad, the benefits of AWD is rarely seen.
I have an S8 (with the precursor of that S4 V8 engine) and 2 BMWs (a V12 and V8). The Audi is my daily driver only due to MPG and tax reasons on the BMWs.. but given the choice of one car, it wouldnt be the Audi.


PS: I think the 645 looks great, that generation S4 is a bit bland.

godtabh

Idbatterim wrote: »

just browsing donedeal and this 6 series seems to be excellent value...

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2865873

If I could convince the wife it was a practical family car I'd have it snapped up!

DCrean

The 05' S4 on carzone is the same model I had a while back. Really enjoyed it and found excuses to cross the country. Mayo to Dublin, just to buy a pair of wellies. So addictive to drive and listen to. Great price to get your hands on a relatively new a V8 engine in my opinion. Only problem is Your heart sinks if you ever end up parked beside the RS or newer M3 but both are rare enough. Be prepared for the tax and petrol. Around €80-90 for a full tank. 2/3 empty after 150 miles. Approx. Ouch and a bit

GavMan

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/6-Series/640d-Spo/213231679085190/advert?channel=CARS

Totally irrelevant but the new 6er looks properly mint. Love that interior...

andromeda76

DCrean wrote: »

The 05' S4 on carzone is the same model I had a while back. Really enjoyed it and found excuses to cross the country. Mayo to Dublin, just to buy a pair of wellies. So addictive to drive and listen to. Great price to get your hands on a relatively new a V8 engine in my opinion. Only problem is Your heart sinks if you ever end up parked beside the RS or newer M3 but both are rare enough. Be prepared for the tax and petrol. Around €80-90 for a full tank. 2/3 empty after 150 miles. Approx. Ouch and a bit

What sort of money are we talking for servicing. Does it need similar services like the M3 (ie. inspection 1 and 2) which i hear are extortionate. Also any commons known faults like the 6 series (seals going and active steering) and the M3 E46. I heard the Smg boxes can give very costly problems.

George Dalton

andromeda76 wrote: »

What sort of money are we talking for servicing. Does it need similar services like the M3 (ie. inspection 1 and 2) which i hear are extortionate. Also any commons known faults like the 6 series (seals going and active steering) and the M3 E46. I heard the Smg boxes can give very costly problems.

What do you drive at the moment? Are you driving car with high running costs already or will you be coming from a car with low running costs? If you are coming from a low running cost car you will get a bit of a shock.

A full inspection service will be a lot more expensive than say a 2.0 petrol A4. This is simply due to the fact that it has 8 spark plugs instead of 4 and takes 9 litres of oil instead of 3.5. There are no specific service actions on the S4 as opposed to an A4 like there are with the E46 M3 compared to normal E46s so no hidden extra costs there.

The actual parts themeselves aren't much more expensive than the run of the mill models. Genuine Audi parts prices from my records:

Oil filter €14
Spark plugs €11 (x8 remember)
Air filter €19
Cabin filter €25

A full inspection service with all the above parts (plus the all important 9 litres of correct spec oil) will set you back about €375 at an independent garage. Obviously if you go to Audi it will cost you much more than that. The full service is only due every 40k miles, interim services will cost less.

tossy

George Dalton wrote: »

Oil filter €14
Spark plugs €11 (x8 remember)
Air filter €19
Cabin filter €25

A full inspection service with all the above parts (plus the all important 9 litres of correct spec oil) will set you back about €375 at an independent garage. Obviously if you go to Audi it will cost you much more than that. The full service is only due every 40k miles, interim services will cost less.

Not too bad at all,now if only you could go to an independent garage for tax!

andromeda76

George Dalton wrote: »

What do you drive at the moment? Are you driving car with high running costs already or will you be coming from a car with low running costs? If you are coming from a low running cost car you will get a bit of a shock.

A full inspection service will be a lot more expensive than say a 2.0 petrol A4. This is simply due to the fact that it has 8 spark plugs instead of 4 and takes 9 litres of oil instead of 3.5. There are no specific service actions on the S4 as opposed to an A4 like there are with the E46 M3 compared to normal E46s so no hidden extra costs there.

The actual parts themeselves aren't much more expensive than the run of the mill models. Genuine Audi parts prices from my records:

Oil filter €14
Spark plugs €11 (x8 remember)
Air filter €19
Cabin filter €25

A full inspection service with all the above parts (plus the all important 9 litres of correct spec oil) will set you back about €375 at an independent garage. Obviously if you go to Audi it will cost you much more than that. The full service is only due every 40k miles, interim services will cost less.

That's less than I was expecting. Not bad at all for such a high performing car. I currently drive a jaguar xj6 series 3. Beautiful car, but just fancy something faster and more modern. Are you an idependant mechanic yourself george?

George Dalton

I am yes. I also own one of the older shape V6 S4s myself. Have you driven the S4 and the 6 series to see which you prefer?

yoke

Have you considered getting an M3?

A couple of years ago I was originally looking at an s4 (like yourself), then an m3 and a 645ci last year - while I never actually got to test drive the s4 (one I was looking at got sold), I did drive an smg m3 followed by an auto 645ci - after that for me there was no question the m3 was what I wanted, and I never looked back (still very happy with the purchase, nearly a year later).

Originally I had only been looking at the s4 since I saw it as a fast 4dr saloon, I only realised after test driving the m3 (and fitting my kids in the back without any problems!) that I actually didn't need a 4dr saloon car at all.

That said, the 645ci seemed like a great car, very refined, definitely aimed at an older market compared to the m3, and with much better ride quality - by the time I actually drove it though, it was too late and somewhere inside I had already decided I was getting the m3 due to the speed/fun of it unless I could pick up the 645ci for much cheaper, which it turned out that I couldn't, in my case.

andromeda76

George Dalton wrote: »

I am yes. I also own one of the older shape V6 S4s myself. Have you driven the S4 and the 6 series to see which you prefer?

I've driven the 6 series. Lovely car. Beautiful interior and plenty of power. I haven't tried the s4 yet. But assume its a more of a drivers car since its manual and plenty of grip. Which is what im looking for, plus it's still very practical. Mpg is not really a worry since I have a company vehicle. I've also tried an m3 which is an absolute adrenaline rush. Just heard on various forums that they cost an absolute fortune to run. A lot more than your service quote from earlier on. The Audi seem to be slightly ahead in my preferences at the moment.

George Dalton

Yes the E46 M3 is a totally different animal. I would say the S4 would be closer in character to the 6 series than the M3 to be honest, it is more of a cruiser than an outright sports saloon.

Tom Harward

i have no list of reasons but i would go for BMW!

Thomasoconnor

Bmw

andromeda76

DCrean wrote: »

The 05' S4 on carzone is the same model I had a while back. Really enjoyed it and found excuses to cross the country. Mayo to Dublin, just to buy a pair of wellies. So addictive to drive and listen to. Great price to get your hands on a relatively new a V8 engine in my opinion. Only problem is Your heart sinks if you ever end up parked beside the RS or newer M3 but both are rare enough. Be prepared for the tax and petrol. Around €80-90 for a full tank. 2/3 empty after 150 miles. Approx. Ouch and a bit

Fuel economy isn't really an issue as I have a company car. What was it like for acceleration? I know their fast, but does it really pull you back in your seat. Give you a smile every time you drive it? Bags of grip as well I presume with the awd?

tossy

andromeda76 wrote: »

Fuel economy isn't really an issue as I have a company car. What was it like for acceleration? I know their fast, but does it really pull you back in your seat. Give you a smile every time you drive it? Bags of grip as well I presume with the awd?

Best thing you could do OP is go test drive one and report back,it's a great decision to have to make and best of luck with it.

Idbatterim

there is a manual one, 0-60 is 5.8 with auto and 5.6 with manual according to autotrader.co.uk website.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/6-Series/645-645C/201142205072355/advert?channel=CARS

in relation to the question "would it put you in back of your seat" yes the manual certainly would, probably the auto too...

yoke

andromeda76 wrote: »

I've driven the 6 series. Lovely car. Beautiful interior and plenty of power. I haven't tried the s4 yet. But assume its a more of a drivers car since its manual and plenty of grip. Which is what im looking for, plus it's still very practical. Mpg is not really a worry since I have a company vehicle. I've also tried an m3 which is an absolute adrenaline rush. Just heard on various forums that they cost an absolute fortune to run. A lot more than your service quote from earlier on. The Audi seem to be slightly ahead in my preferences at the moment.

Hmm... regarding m3 running costs compared to s4 or 645ci, i'd say the biggest difference would be in insurance (645ci and s4 probably get away with cheaper insurance).
Servicing might also be slightly more expensive on the m3, but I was under the impression that in city driving, the fuel economy would be better in an m3 (1560kg) rather than a 645ci (1690kg), or an s4 (1730kg)?

im getting about 18mpg when doing city driving, i'd assume i'd get even worse on the s4 or 645ci?

Bearcat

I'd a 645 for a year....I regret I sold it....munched miles on the motorway, great engine.....totally reliable.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Insurance on a 645 is in the top bracket same as the M3. The fuel consumptions is around the same and servicing and parts are around the same. The M3 is a faster cars with better handling however last time I looked its very hard find a decent e46 m3.

kerten

I know you are looking for newer car but if practicality and performance are your concerns not mpg, what about this one ?

http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=33223

onemanband

I have had the E46 M3, the 645i and a 4.2 A8 (not the S version). 3 great cars. The M3 is in a league of its own in terms of everything (including back seats). Hard to pick up a decent M3 with low mileage at the right money.

I recently sold my 06 645i convertible (30k miles) for 15k. There is great value on 645i's at the moment. Great cruiser and good handling but not an out and out performance car. I had a manual which I did not like. Back seats are very small.

The 4.2 V8 audi engine is pure silk and one of my favourite petrol engines in any car. Problem for me is the styling on the S4. It's quite bland. Every 2nd 1.9 TDi looks like the S4.

If it's a weekend car and you can afford it the M3 is in a league of it's own. Petrol is mad but other wise running costs are not that bad.

Idbatterim

That M5 is sick! how about a 335i? few 07 going for very reasonable, with remap will beat a stock E46 m3 in straight line 0-100 and cheaper tax, fuel, insurance and depreciation...

http://www.dmsautomotive.com/modelsinfo.asp?modelid=369&manid=1

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/335i-COU/2313284532212390/advert?channel=CARS

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/335Ci-Ma/201204206733943/advert?channel=CARS

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/335i-Mat/3613289119332910/advert?channel=CARS

i dont know why, but so few of the E92 either purchased or just for sale are msport, but you can always retrofit msport bumper and sell existing one...

Matt Simis

andromeda76 wrote: »

I've driven the 6 series. Lovely car. Beautiful interior and plenty of power. I haven't tried the s4 yet. But assume its a more of a drivers car since its manual and plenty of grip.

Prepare to be disappointed then! Now Im an Audi fan, but to call a spade a spade: Overly light steering, Nose heavy and FWDy at times, easy to drive and speed in.. I cannot see you thinking (once you drive it) thats its more of a drivers car. Its more of a point and shoot and go fast experience, but in driving terms is definitely lesser than a similar engined BMW.

You can get the 6series in manual too (though rare).

OP, you have driven a fast RWD before right? Just push the pedal "more" and then answer the question to yourself which is a driver's car and which is slightly too efficient.

onemanband

Idbatterim wrote: »

That M5 is sick! how about a 335i? few 07 going for very reasonable, with remap will beat a stock E46 m3 in straight line 0-100 and cheaper tax, fuel, insurance and depreciation...

The 335i is great advice. Best of all worlds and some great deals out there

Idbatterim

according to this website, a remapped 335i will do the 1/4 mile in 11.7!

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=669833

btkm8unsl0w5r4

OP wants 4 doors, finding a 335i in saloon is like rocking horse poo. Great engine in that car 2006 international engine of the year and basically the same engine as the 1m. Remap is around 350 euro and transforms the car.

Idbatterim

below are 2 cheapest in Uk on autotrader, manual though...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201141421638198/sort/priceasc/usedcars/engine-size-cars/3l_to_3-9l/maximum-age/up_to_7_years_old/body-type/saloon/model/3_series/make/bmw/page/5/radius/1501/postcode/bt39jp?logcode=p

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201206448967837/sort/priceasc/usedcars/engine-size-cars/3l_to_3-9l/maximum-age/up_to_7_years_old/body-type/saloon/model/3_series/make/bmw/radius/1501/postcode/bt39jp/page/6?logcode=p