Irish Dog Act, Muzzles

gud4u

Is a halti considered a muzzle, can anyone clarify this, http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/si/0442.html

Any help appreciated, I have a GSD and have started going to a walking club, We are working on letting him off lead for a little run around. There are other GSDs, Japanese Akitas and Huskys there. We're all striving to get our dogs socialised and playing together. It's a safe place and supervised.

Some of them have haltis and some the mesh/fabric type of soft muzzle, that's the one I'm thinking of.

are you serious

gud4u if you get stopped and asked what is your halti tell the guard/warden it is a muzzle and they can not tell you it is not a muzzle.

This is something I have said before on boards and I would back all the way through to court if anyone wanted to try tell me otherwise. Nowhere in the legislation in relation to the Restricted Breed list in the link you posted does it define what a muzzle is therefore your "halti" is now your "muzzle"

ppink

except that a halti is sold as a head collar not a muzzle??

kylith

I think the halti qualifies as a muzzle because it goes over the nose and, IIRC, closes the mouth if the dog lunges forward.

are you serious

ppink wrote: »

except that a halti is sold as a head collar not a muzzle??

Yeah you are right ppink. As I dont own one I don't know this but doe it say it is not a muzzle?

The simple thing about the op's question is that it's not defined in the legislation exactly what a muzzle is therefore you can say your halti or dogmatic head collar is actually a different type of muzzle and there is nothing any warden or guard can say.

gud4u

Would it be fair to say then it's whatever you feel comfortable with your pet.
EG. If you thought your dog was a risk then muzzle him completely or if you think he's fine with people and other animals go with a halti.

Does it just boil down to trust with your dog. My gsd is never off lead apart from this group and even then it's only with others who have simimal breeds and understanding. And, if /when I feel it is appropriate to leave him off.

ppink

I dont know really. I use a muzzle (black basket type)on our guys and I am sorry I did not introduce it to them when they were small as they do not like them at all. I did use a halti and they could easily bite with one of them on. the mesh/fabric nylon muzzle we used before on another dog and he ripped it clean apart by opening his mouth. I also thought it gave them no room to drink or pant properly so that is why I went with the basket one.
my dogs are not fine with others so that is really why I use the muzzle in very public places. up the wood where there is noone around I dont use them.
Garkane I just looked up the halti site and it does say it is an on/off muzzle! I did not know this before
http://www.halti.co.uk/benefits.php

gud4u

Thanks for the replies, what kind of dogs you have ppink.

Would the fact that it is being clearly advertised as an on/off muzzle be enough to get you through a warden stopping you, in anyones opinion.

I would never leave him off lead, I had a very close one one time with an elderly man and a previous gsd. The dog didn't go to bite or anything but very nearly knocked him over. In his excitement he abandoned alll commands and ran off on me. It's was a catch 22 as the dog was never off lead. At least I have a big yard now and play football.

My gsd is black faced and intimidating looking, but he seems ok so far with everybody and their pets. He does play hard though, but given his size it's to be expected.

That said, I don't trust any dog 100% and feel it is our responsibilty to keep them and others safe.

I've just been for a walk with my dog using the halti and it made such a difference to me holding him, as I have a shoulder problem, so now my next problem is putting a muzzle over the halti if I have to use it.

Or. I could go with a choke chain, he's used to that too, just a gentle pull and he stops dragging me. It's a pity they all add to his intimadation factor, maybe I could dye him pink:D

time lord

You also cant find a defination of a dwelling in control of dogs act. Very important for enforcement. My point is the act goes on without it. Muzzle leglislation is lightly enforced because it cannot be dealt with a fixed penalty notice. A summons must be issued. This is not going to happen 99% of the time. If the dogs has had a bad day and bitten people etc you may find a summons far more forthcomming.
A halti in my opinion wouldn't pass mustard as a muzzle in court.
At most it would be is considered a restraint. A judge has good latitude to give his verdicts and if your up in court for the fall out of your dog not being muzzled good luck with calling a halti a muzzle. Very good idea socialising the dogs and most dogs do dislike muzzles. This law because of the summons senario will always be lightly enforced. Better off staying away from courts as much as possible as proving a point does not usually run smoothly unless your pockets are deep. Best of luck I love G.S.D's.

gud4u

What would any of you think of the fabric/nylon ones that are open at the end

http://http://canineconcepts.co.uk/en/dog-muzzles/2573-mikki-fabric-muzzle.html

Kukey

I have a German Shepherd & I use this muzzle on her http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dog_collars_dog_leads/harnesses/muzzles/129603
They have more freedom to pant with this one & it is not as restrictive as other muzzles.My dog is not in any way aggressive but because of the law,and the dog warden always driving around my area,I have to put it on her.

ppink

I have 2 GSD's also. people are very intimidated by our girl too as she has such a dark face I think. one of my friends nearly jumped out the window one day when the dog came into the room!
I cant opne your link but it is these ones we tried
http://www.petworlddirect.ie/product/Dogs/DogTrainingBehaviorControl/6240335

and our dogs really hated them. I found them very restrictive for their drinking and panting.
now we use these http://www.fag.genova.it/art_mus91b_e.htm
I found the black blends in better with their muzzle so they look less hanibal lectar like;)
I do like the look of Kukey's one though, but as Time Lord said I could see an issue if it came to court.

boomerang

gud4u wrote: »

What would any of you think of the fabric/nylon ones that are open at the end

http://http://canineconcepts.co.uk/en/dog-muzzles/2573-mikki-fabric-muzzle.html

Can't open the link but if it's the kind I'm thinking of, they're only for restraint while being examined by a vet or maybe on the grooming table. They don't allow the mouth to open so wouldn't be suitable for exercise.

gud4u

Hi,
The link you couldnt open was for the MiKKI-I wont Bite muzzle, I founf it very small, a 3xl seems too small on him. I like the look of the one on zooplus but would it be just like the halti. I dunno really, I think I'II look at the one on your second link PPINK. Did you get it online or can it be bought in a local pet shop, I like that it's black.

My lads a big fool, but the warden and guards are around so I'd rather he was muzzled.

However, that brings me back to my other problem of using the halti to help walking him.

are you serious

For me a muzzle completely covers all of the dogs muzzle... As in nothing could ever be possibly bitten if the dog tries...

For me these two are the exact same thing, just one is sold as a head collar and one a padded muzzle...

http://www.halti.co.uk/haltiheadcollar.php
http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dog_collars_dog_leads/harnesses/muzzles/129603

What ppink has posted is a proper muzzle.

I think once someone see's a dog with a muzzle that covers the dogs mouth like in ppink's link they automatically get it into their head that the dog is wearing a muzzle because it bites or will try bite...

gud4u

Trixie Nylon Muzzle Band

Great alternative to conventional muzzles. This nylon Trixie muzzle band has extra soft padding and comes with easy to handle, adjustable tightness settings
Many dog owners would prefer not to put hard muzzles on their pets but sometimes this is unavoidable. One alternative is a muzzle band, which works more gently but at the same time, is still safe. The muzzle prevents biting, but still allows your dog to pant and to drink.

It looks comfortable but I think a dog could still bite with it...Do you think it's a little misleading. Or would you be ok with it just being 'a muzzle band'

are you serious

gud4u I may be wrong but all your messages are kind of coming across as if you think your dog is going to bite someone...?

If this is the case then go for a fully enclosed muzzle and you will have no worries
http://www.fordogtrainers.eu/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3&zenid=h76qmm9r4uqki5a3t799aeqvl1

If I have taken up your messages wrong I do apologise and I then would fully suggest and recommend the Trixie Muzzle Band as it is being sold as a muzzle...

ppink

gud4u we got that muzzle in maxi zoo naas. I had been looking for a long time for one in black.

gud4u

garkane wrote: »

gud4u I may be wrong but all your messages are kind of coming across as if you think your dog is going to bite someone...?

If this is the case then go for a fully enclosed muzzle and you will have no worries
http://www.fordogtrainers.eu/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3&zenid=h76qmm9r4uqki5a3t799aeqvl1

If I have taken up your messages wrong I do apologise and I then would fully suggest and recommend the Trixie Muzzle Band as it is being sold as a muzzle...

Ah No, I'm just being inquisitive and over protective if anything. I had a vicious dog once and just want to be careful. I don't like confrontation and don't like to be questioned by random busy bodies who've never even owned a dog. It is neither my fault or the dogs he has such a black face. Someone even asked me if he was crossed with a Rottweiller. He does have some similar brown markings. I assure you he's not. And if he is the the breeder has some serious questions to answer.:) Namely to IKC as all papers and parents were verified. ( don't know why I feel compelled to tell you all that:o)


He's not vicious at all, all the big dogs at the walking club have some class of muzzle on. I just want to be responsible as my dog is on the larger side for a GSD and I don't want to come off the wrong side of a small encounter, knocking over someone unintentionally would be his biggest threat as he loves affectio. I have started using a Halti headcollar as I'm not very strong at moment(injury) and he is a divil to pull sometimes.

I would just hate to get him/me in trouble if he grazed someone. Like I say, it's only at the walk i'd have him off lead and at that i'm not doing it untill we think it's ok. He's almost 2 years old and I didn't get him as a pup so I'm just being extra careful.

(There's enough people giving dogs a bad name without me adding to it...re:the St. Bernard owner on the off leash dog thread)

gud4u

Was told in Petmania today that once a dog on RB list has a lead it doesn't need a muzzle....can't find anythin on net to verify, anyone know?

Got the nylon one, nut had to buy the 4xl, he has a larger gob than normal.. Thanks for all the help.

Zapperzy

gud4u wrote: »

Was told in Petmania today that once a dog on RB list has a lead it doesn't need a muzzle....can't find anythin on net to verify, anyone know?

Complete bs I'm afraid in the eyes of the law. RB's in public need a lead (no greater than 6ft long I think), a muzzle and to be accompanied by someone 16 or over. Perhaps they meant that they don't need a muzzle temperment wise, or that the warden in that area wasn't very strict on muzzles. Either way by law an RB must be muzzled.

are you serious

No no no that is definite lies gud4u!

These guys and girls who work in the pet shops are so uneducated in a lot of areas which you would expect they should know a lot of information on!

This is the legislation on the RB list and nowhere does it say dogs on the list do not have to wear a muzzle if they are on a lead!
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1991/en/si/0123.html

axle108

Just on the Halti as a muzzle. The Halti is to assist you to control the dogs forward direction by turning or steering his head away. Some sites state it has a muzzling effect. But this is only when the lead is pulled and the jaws are forced closed. Lets be honest, a muzzle is a device to stop the dog biting at all times. I know its not defined in the statute. But i wouldn't like to test it in court.
Having said that, my GSD wears a Halti and luckily the wardens around here dont pay any attention once he's being restrained.

There's a muzzle ( cage type) in the press, the dog hates it. If you ever want to make a GSD look even more viscious to some people, stick one of those over his mouth and watch the dissapproving looks.