Rip off Ireland

bandra8126

Hi all

I'd love to hear all views on the new 'Service Charge' .
I understand that Local Authorities need to be funded , but , the way this is being done is a total rip off . I used to lived in England and i payed a council tax , which i complained and moaned about but i knew that this service charge covered my bin charges and water charges and other costs involved in providing services to the community . We are now being told here in Ireland that we have to pay a service charge - as most other European countries do - which is fair enough - but we - unlike the uk - pay a 'Service charge' and we still pay for the services seperately on top of this , plus a new 'Septic Tank' Charge . And just while were on the subject - i've heard a few people telling us 'Complainers' to stop moaning as it's only 50 euro for the tank charge - do you honestly think it will be 50 euro in the next budget and the next - once they introduce it - then they've got us by the short and curly's . Well , i've had my rant - what do you think ?

boombang

I don't agree. Previously we paid for council services indirectly, they were never really free. Why not pay more directly for the services we use? Water, bins, general council upkeep of streets/ public amenities etc.

The existing system of financing local services seems pretty illogical, it needs to be rationalised.

Also, I think direct charging improves the scope for accountability.

Also, add your water, bins and service charge together an I guess you're still paying less that UK council tax.

Maura74

Council tax in UK does not cover water charges are paid separately it is paid in with council tax which is really high in UK.:mad:

Farmer Pudsey

This is rip off Ireland in the rest of Europe Car tax is small if it exists at all there is no VRT in most of Europe and if you have council charges they provide water, bins, road maintenance etc.

We have the highest car tax in europe, combined with VRT it is alot more than they pay for council charges. Now we will have a property Tax as well. Seperate water charges and either a septic tank charge or a waste water charge in urban areas.

However to balance this we have the highest rate of unemployment benifit in europe along with alot of side benfits (medical card, fuel allowance free exam fees, college grants etc) . In the rest of europe most countrys have an adequate health policy for its low-middle income workers in Ireland we have over paid consultants, judges, county managers, engineers, solicitors, etc..

We have about 4 times the amount of politicians per head of population as well as being paid 50-60% more and with pensions that will earn them more after they retire than they earned during there working life it is not just the Bondholders we are paying.

What is going on in Ireland is unsustainable the politicians live in crowd cuckoo land and we are probally not too far from what is happening in Greece

Good loser

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

This is rip off Ireland in the rest of Europe Car tax is small if it exists at all there is no VRT in most of Europe and if you have council charges they provide water, bins, road maintenance etc.

We have the highest car tax in europe, combined with VRT it is alot more than they pay for council charges. Now we will have a property Tax as well. Seperate water charges and either a septic tank charge or a waste water charge in urban areas.

However to balance this we have the highest rate of unemployment benifit in europe along with alot of side benfits (medical card, fuel allowance free exam fees, college grants etc) . In the rest of europe most countrys have an adequate health policy for its low-middle income workers in Ireland we have over paid consultants, judges, county managers, engineers, solicitors, etc..

We have about 4 times the amount of politicians per head of population as well as being paid 50-60% more and with pensions that will earn them more after they retire than they earned during there working life it is not just the Bondholders we are paying.

What is going on in Ireland is unsustainable the politicians live in crowd cuckoo land and we are probally not too far from what is happening in Greece

You're well off topic there Farmer.

This 'service charge' is agreed with Troika and must be implemented THIS YEAR.

Also it's part of being an 'adult' nation.

Farmer Pudsey

Good loser wrote: »

You're well off topic there Farmer.

This 'service charge' is agreed with Troika and must be implemented THIS YEAR.

Also it's part of being an 'adult' nation.

This is where we have to wake up there is alot of other things agreed with the so called troika such as the reduction of top level wages of politicians , judges, and high paid public severants, reduction of benfits, it not all about extra chjarges.
Reduction of proffesional costs ( solicitors ,doctors, engineers, consultants and a whole lot more.) What we are seeing at present is an attempt to unload local chargres from small buisness( which is right ) to the copeing class (these are the people who get up every morning and go to work for ordinary wages) you and me ( I HOPE) .@ THIS IT MUST BE IMPLENTED because the TROIKA say so. There is a lot of other things thje troika want implemented that will not be implemented wake up and smell the coffee.
Do you see the unions leading the march like in the late seventies or early eighty's no because they are now the FAT CAT's like the solicitor's and consultant's.

femur61

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

This is rip off Ireland in the rest of Europe Car tax is small if it exists at all there is no VRT in most of Europe and if you have council charges they provide water, bins, road maintenance etc.

We have the highest car tax in europe, combined with VRT it is alot more than they pay for council charges. Now we will have a property Tax as well. Seperate water charges and either a septic tank charge or a waste water charge in urban areas.

However to balance this we have the highest rate of unemployment benifit in europe along with alot of side benfits (medical card, fuel allowance free exam fees, college grants etc) . In the rest of europe most countrys have an adequate health policy for its low-middle income workers in Ireland we have over paid consultants, judges, county managers, engineers, solicitors, etc..

We have about 4 times the amount of politicians per head of population as well as being paid 50-60% more and with pensions that will earn them more after they retire than they earned during there working life it is not just the Bondholders we are paying.

What is going on in Ireland is unsustainable the politicians live in crowd cuckoo land and we are probally not too far from what is happening in Greece

I know that, you know that,alot of people are aware of that,but the people we have elected seem totally unaware of the real world. I can only assume most of the people in power have never lived in the real world.

Maura74

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

This is where we have to wake up there is alot of other things agreed with the so called troika such as the reduction of top level wages of politicians , judges, and high paid public severants, reduction of benfits, it not all about extra chjarges.
Reduction of proffesional costs ( solicitors ,doctors, engineers, consultants and a whole lot more.) What we are seeing at present is an attempt to unload local chargres from small buisness( which is right ) to the copeing class (these are the people who get up every morning and go to work for ordinary wages) you and me ( I HOPE) .@ THIS IT MUST BE IMPLENTED because the TROIKA say so. There is a lot of other things thje troika want implemented that will not be implemented wake up and smell the coffee.
Do you see the unions leading the march like in the late seventies or early eighty's no because they are now the FAT CAT's like the solicitor's and consultant's.

If they started the cuts at the top first and then let it tickle down, the average waged person would not be hit so hard.
As mentioned these very rich people ath the top do not live in the real world and have not have a clue how difficult it is for the average people to scarps a living to get by.:mad::mad:

bmaxi

It is not a service charge, it is a tax. A tax on those of us who were prudent enough to work and save to provide a home for our families without recourse to the State. Once implemented it will increase annually at whatever rate the Government of the day thinks it can extract from the people. There will be no services in return, as has been already seen, household charges like water and refuse are to be charged separately and I've no doubt plans are already afoot to privatise the water supply and spread the rich pickings among their buddies, no doubt with kickbacks all round, just as the last shower did with the building industry.

Icepick

bmaxi wrote: »

It is not a service charge, it is a tax. A tax on those of us who were prudent enough to work and save to provide a home for our families without recourse to the State. Once implemented it will increase annually at whatever rate the Government of the day thinks it can extract from the people. There will be no services in return, as has been already seen, household charges like water and refuse are to be charged separately and I've no doubt plans are already afoot to privatise the water supply and spread the rich pickings among their buddies, no doubt with kickbacks all round, just as the last shower did with the building industry.

How much would it cost you to have the tank inspected?
Are you sure that your neighbours are not polluting and have their tanks inspected regularly?

AlekSmart

Maura74 wrote: »

Council tax in UK does not cover water charges are paid separately it is paid in with council tax which is really high in UK.:mad:

This is a very valid point in the context of Phil Hogan's slavering over the Fantastic new dawn for "Irish Water" or the "Irish Water Board","Uisce Eireann" or whatever the consultants deem is a snappy enough name and logo to appear on the Bills which will,like peace,come dropping slowly....:rolleyes:

Take a look throughout Dublin City,as companies like Murphy Civil Engineering,undertake a massive "Water-Main Rehabilitation" programme to make our water better,faster and more watery than anywhere else on the planet...yes..?

Of course,and as a little bonus,The Murphy's,agus a chairdí are also required to install a neat wee water-metering device outside each dwelling...is'nt that a great idea...;)

Phil Hogan sez "sure is'nt it great people,4,000 jobs available" to get this dream functioning....and at the end of it all a brand new automated revenue-stream to pay Phils Pinsín Mor Laidir

The privatizing of Water in the UK was probably the crowning achievement of Baroness Thatcher's administrations.

She and her band of fantastically far-sighted cabinet colleagues,ably funded and assisted by some of the wealthiest individuals and corporations on the planet,set about rewriting the book on how we live...and she succeeded 100%

All of the spiel coming forth from the Phil Hogan's of the current Irish Government can be directly lifted from UK Conservative Party policy documents dating back to the 1960's,but few of these Irish Political giants even realize it.....

If anybody needs to quantify the end results,just ask a relation living in the UK what they pay for water...and then ask them what the quality of that water is like....

A kinda broader perspective is up for grabs here,if a bit slanted...

www.citizen.org/documents/privatizationfiascos.pdf

However,in the Irish Political context,our leaders have never been too keen on learning from mistakes made by others...we like to think we're "different"....:(

bmaxi

Icepick wrote: »

How much would it cost you to have the tank inspected?
Are you sure that your neighbours are not polluting and have their tanks inspected regularly?

????

dissed doc

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

This is rip off Ireland in the rest of Europe Car tax is small if it exists at all there is no VRT in most of Europe and if you have council charges they provide water, bins, road maintenance etc.

We have the highest car tax in europe, combined with VRT it is alot more than they pay for council charges. Now we will have a property Tax as well. Seperate water charges and either a septic tank charge or a waste water charge in urban areas.

Not strictly true on car registration taxes and yearly motor tax. Denmark's registration taxes add around 65% of the price of a car compared to the VRT in Ireland of e.g., 30-36%. Then again, BPM in Netherlands is just like VRT but less - say 3000 on a 15k new car in class C CO2 (around 20%). Yearly motor tax in ireland however is a complete joke!

Going Forward

Good loser wrote: »

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

This is rip off Ireland in the rest of Europe Car tax is small if it exists at all there is no VRT in most of Europe and if you have council charges they provide water, bins, road maintenance etc.

We have the highest car tax in europe, combined with VRT it is alot more than they pay for council charges. Now we will have a property Tax as well. Seperate water charges and either a septic tank charge or a waste water charge in urban areas.

However to balance this we have the highest rate of unemployment benifit in europe along with alot of side benfits (medical card, fuel allowance free exam fees, college grants etc) . In the rest of europe most countrys have an adequate health policy for its low-middle income workers in Ireland we have over paid consultants, judges, county managers, engineers, solicitors, etc..

We have about 4 times the amount of politicians per head of population as well as being paid 50-60% more and with pensions that will earn them more after they retire than they earned during there working life it is not just the Bondholders we are paying.

What is going on in Ireland is unsustainable the politicians live in crowd cuckoo land and we are probally not too far from what is happening in Greece

You're well off topic there Farmer.

This 'service charge' is agreed with Troika and must be implemented THIS YEAR.

Also it's part of being an 'adult' nation.

Glad you agreed it for me.

A Dub in Glasgo

bandra8126 wrote: »

Hi all

I'd love to hear all views on the new 'Service Charge' .
I used to lived in England and i payed a council tax , which i complained and moaned about but i knew that this service charge covered my bin charges and water charges and other costs involved in providing services to the community . We are now being told here in Ireland that we have to pay a service charge - as most other European countries do - which is fair enough - but we - unlike the uk - pay a 'Service charge' and we still pay for the services seperately on top of this , plus a new 'Septic Tank' Charge .

Does it add up to this?

scotty_irish

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Does it add up to this?

I'm band E in Glasgow too - but I'm a bum student muahahahha!

munchkin_utd

In the indo today they mentioned that t costs the local authorities of Ireland one billion euro a year to provide "free" water for all.

Unfortunately it's not free. It costs a billion a year.

That's one billin of the twenty that Ireland is borrowing every year.
Free water now that your kids will be paying for in years to come.
Very intelligent!

Maura74

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Does it add up to this?

I note you council tax is for Lanarkshire, in London it is much higher than the one you posted, I pay over 1k for just a small one bedroom flat band B, also every council charges different rates for council tax and does not always include water rates. If I were living in Band E it would be in the region of many thousands of pounds

scotty_irish

Maura74 wrote: »

I note you council tax is for Lanarkshire, in London it is much higher than the one you posted, I pay over 1k for just a small one bedroom flat band B, also every council charges different rates for council tax and does not always include water rates. If I were living in Band E it would be in the region of many thousands of pounds

Not true - Camden rates as an example for London:

http://camden.gov.uk/ccm/content/council-and-democracy/council-tax/your-guide-to-camdens-council-tax-and-business-rates-2011-12.en?page=2

highest is £2600 - lowest is £900.

Glasgow council tax:

http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/YourHome/CouncilTax/Charges/

Lowest is £1071, highest is £3200.

A Dub in Glasgo

That just proves the point though - in the UK, the CT, Water & Sewage charges dwarf any household charge in Ireland.

For info, the CT has been frozen in Scotland since 2008

Maura74

scotty_irish wrote: »

Not true - Camden rates as an example for London:

http://camden.gov.uk/ccm/content/council-and-democracy/council-tax/your-guide-to-camdens-council-tax-and-business-rates-2011-12.en?page=2

highest is £2600 - lowest is £900.

Glasgow council tax:

http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/YourHome/CouncilTax/Charges/

Lowest is £1071, highest is £3200.

That surprise me as my onebed little flat is over £1k, I would have thought that a Band E would be much more.....never looked up other bands....

Wonder if the millionaires mansions in Bishop Avenue Hampstead pay only 2,600, I feel that's not very fair will be on to my MP tomorrow, no that it will do me any good:mad: :mad:

A Dub in Glasgo

What council area are you in?

Maura74

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

What council area are you in?

Camden, Frank Dobson area......

bob the bob

I'm in London and paying around £1850 a year for council tax. Can't remember what band I'm in.

£150+ a month, it's close to 5% my gross salary :mad:

irelandrover

I live in Holland. I pay a city tax, water tax, waste disposal tax, car tax, car tax for the city, mandatory health insurance. I dont see how this can be claimed to be Rip off Ireland when other countries pay even more.

MickySticks

irelandrover wrote: »

I live in Holland. I pay a city tax, water tax, waste disposal tax, car tax, car tax for the city, mandatory health insurance. I dont see how this can be claimed to be Rip off Ireland when other countries pay even more.

I'm sure many country's pay all these but without telling us what each service costs your post was pointless.

irelandrover

MickySticks wrote: »

I'm sure many country's pay all these but without telling us what each service costs your post was pointless.

Health insurance is 93 euro per month for single male.
City tax is 300 euro per year for 2 bedroom apartment
Car tax is 327 per quarter for 1.9 litre diesel
City car tax is 98 euro per year
Waste tax is roughly 130 euro per year, dont have exact figure at the moment
Water charges was 160 per year. + 15 euro per month for drinking water charges

gbee

irelandrover wrote: »

Health insurance is 93 euro per month for single male.cut

That's approx €1,845
As near as mine is €1,430 WITH Water and Council and Congestion charges yet to come.

munchkin_utd

irelandrover wrote: »

I live in Holland. I pay a city tax, water tax, waste disposal tax, car tax, car tax for the city, mandatory health insurance. I dont see how this can be claimed to be Rip off Ireland when other countries pay even more.

and as i pointed out above

"free" water is costing the local authorities €1billion a year to provide in Ireland.

Whats wrong with asking the user to contribute to this cost just like happens already with bins and like happens with water in rural ireland (my folks already have a meter with the group scheme!!) and happens with every service provided by local councils abroad.

Even in countries like the UK who have AAA credit ratings and arent being persued by the troika.

I fail to see where the rip off is.

irelandrover

gbee wrote: »

That's approx €1,845
As near as mine is €1,430 WITH Water and Council and Congestion charges yet to come.

can you give a breakdown of your costs the same as I did?

gbee

irelandrover wrote: »

can you give a breakdown of your costs the same as I did?

Motor Tax €350
Bin Charge €280
Health €800 * not mandatory, but it should be
Council -
City Tax -
Water Tax -

irelandrover

gbee wrote: »

Motor Tax €350
Bin Charge €280
Health €800 * not mandatory, but it should be
Council -
City Tax -
Water Tax -

You have not included my motor tax in your costs which is about 1400 a year. so my total costs are about 3200 compared to your 1400

gbee

irelandrover wrote: »

You have not included my motor tax in your costs which is about 1400 a year. so my total costs are about 3200 compared to your 1400

Per quarter, missed that nugget ~ man that's expensive.

munchkin_utd

irelandrover wrote: »

Health insurance is 93 euro per month for single male.

Thats in holland.
I should also point out that my geman medical insurance is about 350 a month with the employer paying that again making 700 a month.
And that doesnt cover the wife who pays similar.
So we contribute around 1400 a MONTH for our medical cover. EDIT. Thats 16,800 a feckin year!
(makes VHI seem cheap doesnt it!! )

so as we are saying, Ireland is NOT A RIP OFF land and you pay shag all in taxes + charges + medical contributions compared to other countries.

sandin

I have no problem with the household charge nor the septic tank reg fee (the fee is a one off and will be a fiver if your register in 1st 3 months)

I have retail outlets and currently for a relatively small outlet in Dublin city, the rates are just over €30,000. This includes absolutley NOTHING - no water (paid seperately) no bins.

What it does pay is rent supplement to those without jobs, public lighting, fresh water to the homes of citizens, street cleaning after messy people, upkeep of housing estates, upkeep of roads, etc etc.

And whilst the looney left will harp on about paying this, I ask one question - why on earth are the same poeple who rarely contribute and always take take take, the ones that shout the loudest - is it because they are like uneducated sheep and will do what SF and the othe rlooney lefts tell them to do?

These same people are the ones with rent allowance, with socila welfare payments, with child benefit payments, with medical cards. They don't want to contribute to anything.

gbee

sandin wrote: »

These same people are the ones with rent allowance, with socila welfare payments, with child benefit payments, with medical cards. They don't want to contribute to anything.

You're lucky then. The policies being followed by the Government are largely responsible for me going on the social welfare. I used to travel a lot, travel expenses was worth more than the fees for the work.

High fuel prices has just shut it down, it has to be very, very important now for anyone to travel for the company I service. We're all city bound and the competition is fierce and my USP is gone.

The general depression meant that I got no Christmas work at all, I serviced five Santa related venture last year ~ gladly so as my regular business was already going seasonal, this year, nothing and no regular work at all.

In hindsight my worst move 15 years ago was leaving the SW, and that's a TBH.