Christening neccessary?

calculator

Hi all,

I am looking into primary schools for my daughter and am wondering if it makes any difference if she is christened or not? Myself and her Dad don't want to christen her as we are not practising Catholics but we're worried this will affect her chances of getting into schools when the time comes.
Any info would be greatly appreciated!

byhookorbycrook

It very much depends on the school. If you are thinking of a school with a Catholic ethos, you need to find out what the enrolment policy is-if it is oversubscribed how do they give priority?

calculator

Thanks Byhookorbycrook. We don't particularly want to send her to a school with a Catholic ethos but don't want to exclude the option either as we don't know where we'll be living when she is school aged. Will be contacting a lot of schools I think :eek:

byhookorbycrook

It's worth looking around, many schools (ours included) operate on a siblings first, then 1st come 1st served basis. You may need to get the name down asap.


Our school is Catholic in ethos, hugely over subscribed, but we don't use religion in admission at all.

Thereyago

We are going through the same problem...
Some of the schools we'd considered for our son do give priority to catholic children.
Given that 93% of schools are catholic I think this should not be allowed for equality reasons.

My wife and I were raised a catholic, but are both atheist now. As much as I don't want to subject our son to religion, I feel like for the good of his education I have no choice but to grin and bear it.

We are seriously considering getting him baptized just so that he will get equal enrollment priority to other kids. I will feel like a complete hypocrite doing this... it disgusts me.

Ruairi Quinn announced a review of school patronage a year ago... but hasn't been any outcome of that. If he would at least force schools to treat the admittance of all children equally that would be a big step in the right direction.

byhookorbycrook

To be honest, Ruairi Quinn's look at patronage seems to have either naive or headline grabbing.There are NO non-denominational schools in Ireland and at the rate we are going, so many school building projects on hold, there won't be enough schools to cater for all our children,before ethos ever comes into it.

Orion

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

There are NO non-denominational schools

That's misleading. There are multi-denominational schools outside of religious patronage (i.e. Educate Together) as well as schools like your own which allow all faiths yet are catholic in ethos (don't start me on the contradiction ).

There can be no non-denominational primary schools in this country as it is mandatory that religion be taught for 2 hours a week. This you well know.

It is the increase in non-religious patronage of multi-denominational schools that Quinn is targetting. I don't necessarily agree with his seeming preference for VEC schools but tbh my own experience with ET at a local level has been less than encouraging from a patronage and school support perspective. At least the VECs have support structures in place to assist new schools.

byhookorbycrook

Orion, I don't see how it is mis-leading. There are none, so any school regardless of patronage has to teach 2.5 hours of some form of religion each week, even if they are Educate Together or Gaelscoileanna under the Foras Patrúnachta, as you point out.

I think we need to allow for schools where no religion will be taught, multi denoms are not what many parents want either, they seek schools where no religion is done during school hours, not just a mix of religions,which occur in most schools now anyway.

I don't see any conflict in our ethos, whereby we accept local children of different religions and none, as parents choose.

Orion

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Orion, I don't see how it is mis-leading. There are none, so any school regardless of patronage has to teach 2.5 hours of some form of religion each week, even if they are Educate Together or Gaelscoileanna under the Foras Patrúnachta, as you point out.

I think we need to allow for schools where no religion will be taught, multi denoms are not what many parents want either, they seek schools where no religion is done during school hours, not just a mix of religions,which occur in most schools now anyway.

I don't see any conflict in our ethos, whereby we accept local children of different religions and none, as parents choose.

Misleading in that Quinn has not proposed non-religious schools that I am aware of - which is what I thought you were suggesting. He is just looking at options for patronage and having less schools under the patronage of religious orders. Correct me if I'm wrong on either count

I would love schools to be religion free. The US/French model would be ideal - if parents want to teach religion let them do it themselves or in Sunday school. National primary education is not the place for religious education imo. However this will not happen in our lifetimes

byhookorbycrook

I wonder if the VEC model will turn out like community schools, religious in all but name?I agree with you ,Orion,that this isn't going to be resolved any time soon.

hilarymcl

Just to clarify - Educate Together schools do not teach religion- as in a denominational school, rather we teach about religions as part of the 2.5 hours per week.
The 'Learn Together' curriculum as taught in ET schools has four strands each of which is given equal weighting.

• Moral and Spiritual - which aims to develop in children a critical knowledge, understanding and awareness of right and wrong and a heightened awareness of social, ethical and moral standards through reflecting on the meaning and purposes of life
• Justice and Equality-aims to develop in children a critical knowledge, understanding and awareness of issues relating to human rights, equality, culture and diversity, social justice and social inclusiveness and to empower them to make a difference.
• Belief Systems - aims to develop in children a critical knowledge, understanding and awareness of the teachings of religious and non-theistic belief systems and how these systems relate to our shared human experience.
• Ethics and the Environment- aims to develop in children a knowledge, appreciation and respect for their environment and to empower them to take an active role in its stewardship.

ShamoBuc

Orion wrote: »

That's misleading. There are multi-denominational schools outside of religious patronage (i.e. Educate Together) as well as schools like your own which allow all faiths yet are catholic in ethos (don't start me on the contradiction ).

There can be no non-denominational primary schools in this country as it is mandatory that religion be taught for 2 hours a week. This you well know.

It is the increase in non-religious patronage of multi-denominational schools that Quinn is targetting. I don't necessarily agree with his seeming preference for VEC schools but tbh my own experience with ET at a local level has been less than encouraging from a patronage and school support perspective. At least the VECs have support structures in place to assist new schools.

Doesn't an Foras Patrúnachta believe that their Multi denominational ethos is actually Non Denominational. Bit of a contradiction in my view. They believe that religion should be done before ( or after ) school. They have it working currently in Gaelscoil gort Álainn in Mayfield, Cork I think.
They have added the 'community gaelscoil' to their list of schools that they are prepared to be patron of. This is a recent enough development, probably as a result of what the VEC are doing with a few primary schools in Dublin I think - they are looking to be patron for more primary schools apparently.

Orion

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I wonder if the VEC model will turn out like community schools, religious in all but name?I agree with you ,Orion,that this isn't going to be resolved any time soon.

You mean like VEC schools with catholic chaplains and christian teaching? I've been to TUI Congress which represents teachers in VEC schools. At the start of Congress there was a local bishop saying a prayer. Our branch refused to stand for it on principle as VECs are supposed to be non-denominational. This crap is going to continue to VEC primary schools.

hilarymcl wrote: »

Just to clarify - Educate Together schools do not teach religion- as in a denominational school, rather we teach about religions as part of the 2.5 hours per week.

Which means religion is taught. ET schools do religious education as opposed to religious instruction as part of the Learn Together curriculum but it is still teaching about religion - just not instruction in a specific religion.

For background I was part of the startup group for an ET school that is now in its 4th year. I was part of the BoM and PA committee for most of that period. I've done the ET training and was heavily involved in the school at various levels. So I'm not flying blind here. The painful truth is that while ET's principles are sound the practice is down to the local principal and that is not always in keeping with the multi-denominational ethos of the organisation.

huskerdu

calculator wrote: »

Hi all,

I am looking into primary schools for my daughter and am wondering if it makes any difference if she is christened or not? Myself and her Dad don't want to christen her as we are not practising Catholics but we're worried this will affect her chances of getting into schools when the time comes.
Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Back to your query.

Each school must have an enrollment policy which is publically availablr and they must stick to it.

A catholic school can specify that Catholics take priority, but not all do.

You need to find out what schools are in your area and what their enrollment policy is.

A typical enrollment policy might say

1. Siblings of current students
2. Catholics in the catchment area
3. Other children in the catchment area
4. Catholics outside the catchment area
5. All others

Sometimes 3 and 4 are swapped.

A look at the enrollment policies and a chat with the head about the chances of a non-Catholic in the catchment getting in will help you understand where you stand.