Used 523i/525i vs 520D

Bigcheeze

Looking at 07 and 08 5 series, prices seem similar for these models. Presumably the petrol is going to be much better to drive but more expensive to run.

What am I looking at ?

An extra 900 p.a. in tax ?
Servicing more expensive for a 6 cylinder ?
What would the additional fuel costs be for say 10,000 miles per year ?
Am I right in thinking the post-07 petrols have major improvements in fuel economy.

ION08

Well assuming your looking at 2 similar 5 series

With the 523i/525i you'll be paying more tax, significantly less MPG, less torque but the main plus is that you're getting a lovely sounding and feeling, smooth straight 6.

With the diesel you're getting pretty much double the efficiency MPG wise, cheaper to tax and easier to sell on when it and will likely hold its value more.

If you're buying with your heart go with a 525i

If you're buying with your head go for the 520d

Bigcheeze

ION08 wrote: »

With the diesel you're getting pretty much double the efficiency MPG wise, cheaper to tax and easier to sell on when it and will likely hold its value more.

Is it really double ? I can't find stats anywhere.

I'm not too bothered about depreciation as the car will have done most of its depreciating.

Eric Cartman

ION08 wrote: »

Well assuming your looking at 2 similar 5 series

With the 523i/525i you'll be paying more tax, significantly less MPG, less torque but the main plus is that you're getting a lovely sounding and feeling, smooth straight 6.

With the diesel you're getting pretty much double the efficiency MPG wise, cheaper to tax and easier to sell on when it and will likely hold its value more.

If you're buying with your heart go with a 525i

If you're buying with your head go for the 520d

theres 50 nm of torque between them

you wouldnt get double the fuel economy with the diesel

if you go for an 07 the difference in tax between a 2.2 and a 2.5 would be negligable.

for the sake of more smiles per gallon id say go for the 525i

ION08

Eric Cartman wrote: »

ION08 wrote: »

Well assuming your looking at 2 similar 5 series

With the 523i/525i you'll be paying more tax, significantly less MPG, less torque but the main plus is that you're getting a lovely sounding and feeling, smooth straight 6.

With the diesel you're getting pretty much double the efficiency MPG wise, cheaper to tax and easier to sell on when it and will likely hold its value more.

If you're buying with your heart go with a 525i

If you're buying with your head go for the 520d

theres 50 nm of torque between them

you wouldnt get double the fuel economy with the diesel

if you go for an 07 the difference in tax between a 2.2 and a 2.5 would be negligable.

for the sake of more smiles per gallon id say go for the 525i

Theres at least 70nm between them depending on whether its the 163bhp or more if its the 177bhp ED and peak torque comes in much lower on a diesel too

The difference in tax is between a 2.0 and a 2.5 - i dont know where you are getting 2.2 from??

If its emissions based 08 the difference is even greater, either way would hardly call it "negligible"

Average mpg could easily be double.. Or close enough to it

520d would easily get you 45mpg average.

A friend had a 520i automatic (not a 525i) and was averaging 25 mpg

ongarite

I've a 07 E60 523i (N53) and I'm averaging 29-30mpg at the moment.

166man

523i is a 2.5 straight six.. 525i is a 3.0 straight six. Open to correction though this is what I always thought..

An Ri rua

166man wrote: »

523i is a 2.5 straight six.. 525i is a 3.0 straight six. Open to correction though this is what I always thought..

Since the new model (in 2004?) there is no 523i, just a 525. Even before that, the 523i had been phased out. the 520 became a 2.2 (perhaps explains Cartman's confusion?) and the 525 was next up, a 2.5L. The 530 is the 3.0L.

No?

Edit: :o:o

subway

There's a 2.5 523, 2.5 525 and also a 3.0 525 in the e60 Range

subway

And don't forget 2.0 and 2.2 versions of the 520i.
Don't think it was sold here though?

veetwin

ongarite wrote: »

I've a 07 E60 523i (N53) and I'm averaging 29-30mpg at the moment.

Mate, if you're getting 30 mpg out of a 2.5 litre petrol E60 you are driving it all wrong;)

bazz26

subway wrote: »

And don't forget 2.0 and 2.2 versions of the 520i.
Don't think it was sold here though?

The E60 520i was always 2.2 litre afaik. The last 520i to be 2.0 was the E39 upto 2000.

OP, the petrol E60s on the new Co2 tax system are actually cheaper to tax than the old engine size based system. However this means they hold their value in this country alot better than per 2008 models. So any savings you make on motor tax will be ate up by the difference in purchase price between cars on either tax system.

A 520d on either tax system will still cost more to buy than a 523i/525i as diesel engined cars are all in fashion these days. My advice is that if you are not doing big miles (assuming you are not since you are considering a 6 cylinder petrol car) then go for the petrol models. They are selling very cheap these days and they are well proven technology at this stage. I cannot see you driving the miles to justify the extra premium price of the 520d.

Bigcheeze

Of what I've been looking at: 523 is 2.5L http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/523i-2.5/201149206020797/advert?channel=CARS

525 is a 3.0L http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/525I--SE/613262706038110/advert?channel=CARS

Bigcheeze

bazz26 wrote: »

My advice is that if you are not doing big miles (assuming you are not since you are considering a 6 cylinder petrol car) then go for the petrol models.

I'm doing about 10,000 p.a. Mostly around Dublin.

bazz26

Bigcheeze wrote: »

I'm doing about 10,000 p.a. Mostly around Dublin.

Imo a 520d is not for you, modern diesels do not like short journeys and I cannot see it being vastly more economical around a city. I think an auto 523i/525i would be more suitable.

unkel

Bigcheeze wrote: »

I'm doing about 10,000 p.a. Mostly around Dublin.

Mostly Dublin you can expect to get 25MPG in the petrol and 40MPG in the diesel if you drive it like you should drive a 5-series

At 10k miles the difference in fuel cost is about a grand a year. The petrol '07 will be thousands cheaper to buy than the diesel of same year / mileage condition. And an '08 diesel is 4 or 5k more expensive than an '07 because of the ridiculous emphasis in Ireland on the cost of the motor tax (it's nothing compared to depreciation!)

Buy the petrol. It will cost you a little bit more to own but you'll be a much happier driver!

veetwin

Bigcheeze wrote: »

I'm doing about 10,000 p.a. Mostly around Dublin.

As a 520D owner I agree with Bazz. You will get far more for you money if you go for petrol. Economy at that mileage should be well down the list of priorities. Any 525i models around will usually be well equipped and their sellers will be highly motivated as their pool of potential buyers is fairly small.

bazz26

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Of what I've been looking at: 523 is 2.5L http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/523i-2.5/201149206020797/advert?channel=CARS

525 is a 3.0L http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/525I--SE/613262706038110/advert?channel=CARS

The maroon one looks decent value but if I was doing most of my driving around a city I would probably opt for an auto, it would be alot more comfortable in city traffic imo. 2008 523i/525i are €667 to tax afaik.

veetwin

unkel wrote: »

Mostly Dublin you can expect to get 25MPG in the petrol and 40MPG in the diesel if you drive it like you should drive a 5-series

Even 40mpg is optimistic in Dublin driving. I'm rarely in heavy traffic during the week but will struggle to see 39 and that's driving like a granny (most of the time);)

veetwin

bazz26 wrote: »

The maroon one looks decent value but if I was doing most of my driving around a city I would probably opt for an auto, it would be alot more comfortable in city traffic imo. 2008 523i/525i are €667 to tax afaik.

Agreed. Baby Jesus cries everytime a manual 5 series is sold.

bazz26

I'd doubt any diesel car the size and weight of a 5 Series would get 40mpg around a city. In stop/go traffic it would not be a whole lot more economical than a similar petrol engine. Diesels also need about 20 mins of constant driving before they warm up.

unkel

veetwin wrote: »

Agreed. Baby Jesus cries everytime a manual 5 series is sold.

F10 is the first 5-series ever that will see more autos than manuals sold. Hallelujah!

ongarite

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/523I-M-S/613245503264510/advert?channel=CARS

This one is pretty decent. I had a close look at it when I got my car a few months ago.
Its been for sale at least 4-5 months so I'd say they are keen to shift it.
The small scuff on the front bumper had been repaired and its was in good knick outside/inside. Good spec, not factory BT but Parrot kit.

Matt Simis

Bigcheeze wrote: »

525 is a 3.0L http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/525I--SE/613262706038110/advert?channel=CARS

Umm.. if Im paying 3.0 (2.9?) tax there is no way I would be happy with a detuned version of the middle of the range engine (outside of Ireland, ie real world).

If you are paying V8 level tax, buy a V8!?
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2502164

Thats a 540i, worth noting a later model 545i would be around the price of the 525i's you are looking at, but a 545i and 540i are virtually the same.

subway

bazz26 wrote: »

The E60 520i was always 2.2 litre afaik. The last 520i to be 2.0 was the E39 upto 2000.

Just looking at wiki and apparently there was a 2.0 4 cylinder in 2007. In fairness I thought it was an early life cycle thing though

unkel

subway wrote: »

Just looking at wiki and apparently there was a 2.0 4 cylinder in 2007. In fairness I thought it was an early life cycle thing though

Sure you're not thinking of the 3-series? 520 petrol has always been 6 cylinder

rebel.ranter

Another vote for the petrol model. Don't forget to factor in a new turb, EGR valve & swirl flap removal costs when doing a like for like comparison.
(waits for slating after knocking turbo diesels)

subway

unkel wrote: »

Sure you're not thinking of the 3-series? 520 petrol has always been 6 cylinder

http://www.carinf.com/en/6610715739.html

unkel

subway wrote: »

http://www.carinf.com/en/6610715739.html

That looks like a site compiled by a robot. Robot got it wrong

R.O.R

rebel.ranter wrote: »

Another vote for the petrol model. Don't forget to factor in a new turb, EGR valve & swirl flap removal costs when doing a like for like comparison.
[SIZE="1"](waits for slating after knocking turbo diesels)[/SIZE]

And dont forget to budget for anywhere between 1 and 15 injectors and the corresponding number of coils, on the ED 523

WacoKid

E60 525i pre-2005 is 2.5l straight 6.
E60 525i post-2005 is 3.0l straight 6.

I own a 2005 525i for 2 years now and get 18 mpg around town and 28 mpg on the motorway. The former is stop-start right through the city centre and the latter is a 140kph run to belfast so these are really the two extremes.

I bought the 525i M-Sport off the forecourt and was about 4k-4.5k less that the equivilent 520D M-Sport. There is a premium to pay for diesels. The 525i had a higher spec too which you will generally find with petrol cars as petrolheads buy them!

I pay approx. €600 per year more in tax. If i keep the car for 5 years that €3000 diff. That leaves me with €1000 in fuel bills before the diesel starts to pay off. But diesels are more expensive to service and engine parts are dearer too.

Based on this I see the price to pay for a nice smooth ride as opposed to a 4 cylinder 'rattle' quite small. I pay at the pumps but initially saved on the forecourt.

Based on all this if you want a 5 series that offers great spec and great grunt but with average fuel ecomomy then buy a 530d...one of the best cars ever made!

maddness

I think most people here would go for a petrol 5 over a diesel as long as the cost is not too far one way or the other.
Worth it for the sound and power delivery.

SK1979

There appears to be a couple of 530i's around at the moment for a decent price. Circa €15k. These are 2007 cars and am I right in assuming that these are facelift models with the improved economy of efficient dynamic's?

Also, just checking that I'm not missing anything but the 530 is a 3 litre V6, similar to the 525, albeit with a bit worse economy?

Seems a decent bargain to me?

WacoKid

SK1979 wrote: »

There appears to be a couple of 530i's around at the moment for a decent price. Circa €15k. These are 2007 cars and am I right in assuming that these are facelift models with the improved economy of efficient dynamic's?

Also, just checking that I'm not missing anything but the 530 is a 3 litre V6, similar to the 525, albeit with a bit worse economy?

Seems a decent bargain to me?

A 2007 530i was about 28-30k 2 years ago so great value there now. Efficent Dynamics only came in post 2008 and there are not many, if any, post 2008 petrol engines on the road.

The 530i is the same engine as the post-2005 525i. The 530i would have a more agreesive engine mapping and maybe some upgraded engine parts that would be used on the M5 (cam shaft etc.). Better performance but less fuel ecomony...the eternal trade off!

Leonard Hofstadter

SK1979 wrote: »

Also, just checking that I'm not missing anything but the 530 is a 3 litre V6, similar to the 525, albeit with a bit worse economy?

It's got a straight 6, not a V6 (V6s are blasphemy in a BMW).

Six cylinders always wins over four:)! And pre-LCI always wins over post LCI for the six cylinder models, because the post LCI models suffer from injector failure (and coil pack failure) far too often! Don't buy a petrol BMW if it's got Efficient Dynamics!

GavMan

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/bmw/5-series/saloon-2003/

Some stats here. Have found the MPG claims on Parker (albeit on other car altogether) to be very reliable.

I would go petrol myself. If you can get an 07 Facelifted (LCI update and all that) you'll be laughing. Save a bundle on the purchase price and put it towards Tax and Petrol. And considering the OP's needs, I very much doubt he a 520D would achieve double the MPG of a 525 in this instance

GavMan

Also, might be worth considering the UK for a wider choice of petrol and various transmission options. Plus more goodies too

WacoKid

GavMan wrote: »

Also, might be worth considering the UK for a wider choice of petrol and various transmission options. Plus more goodies too

Agreed, UK will be a better market for picking up a nicely-spec'ed petrol.

Ireland will have better selection of diesels. Actually, I think Ireland must have all the diesels that BMW manufacture!

166man

WacoKid wrote: »

E60 525i pre-2005 is 2.5l straight 6.
E60 525i post-2005 is 3.0l straight 6.

I own a 2005 525i for 2 years now and get 18 mpg around town and 28 mpg on the motorway. The former is stop-start right through the city centre and the latter is a 140kph run to belfast so these are really the two extremes.

I bought the 525i M-Sport off the forecourt and was about 4k-4.5k less that the equivilent 520D M-Sport. There is a premium to pay for diesels. The 525i had a higher spec too which you will generally find with petrol cars as petrolheads buy them!

I pay approx. €600 per year more in tax. If i keep the car for 5 years that €3000 diff. That leaves me with €1000 in fuel bills before the diesel starts to pay off. But diesels are more expensive to service and engine parts are dearer too.

Based on this I see the price to pay for a nice smooth ride as opposed to a 4 cylinder 'rattle' quite small. I pay at the pumps but initially saved on the forecourt.

Based on all this if you want a 5 series that offers great spec and great grunt but with average fuel ecomomy then buy a 530d...one of the best cars ever made!

The thing is though is that had you bought a 520d, it would have been more expensive but it also would hold it's value better than the equivalent 525i. So the gap in price difference mightn't be as big as you think.

A 2006 520d would sell for alot more than a 2006 525i these days I'd have thought.

WacoKid

166man wrote: »

WacoKid wrote: »

E60 525i pre-2005 is 2.5l straight 6.
E60 525i post-2005 is 3.0l straight 6.

I own a 2005 525i for 2 years now and get 18 mpg around town and 28 mpg on the motorway. The former is stop-start right through the city centre and the latter is a 140kph run to belfast so these are really the two extremes.

I bought the 525i M-Sport off the forecourt and was about 4k-4.5k less that the equivilent 520D M-Sport. There is a premium to pay for diesels. The 525i had a higher spec too which you will generally find with petrol cars as petrolheads buy them!

I pay approx. €600 per year more in tax. If i keep the car for 5 years that €3000 diff. That leaves me with €1000 in fuel bills before the diesel starts to pay off. But diesels are more expensive to service and engine parts are dearer too.

Based on this I see the price to pay for a nice smooth ride as opposed to a 4 cylinder 'rattle' quite small. I pay at the pumps but initially saved on the forecourt.

Based on all this if you want a 5 series that offers great spec and great grunt but with average fuel ecomomy then buy a 530d...one of the best cars ever made!

The thing is though is that had you bought a 520d, it would have been more expensive but it also would hold it's value better than the equivalent 525i. So the gap in price difference mightn't be as big as you think.

A 2006 520d would sell for alot more than a 2006 525i these days I'd have thought.

You are right.

When I bought it I knew it would be harder to move on. I guess I'm hoping there is a purest still out there when I go to sell it!

It was 64k new and I got it for 17k. A diesel was approx 50k new iirc and was selling for about 21-22k.

166man

WacoKid wrote: »

You are right.

When I bought it I knew it would be harder to move on. I guess I'm hoping there is a purest still out there when I go to sell it!

It was 64k new and I got it for 17k. A diesel was approx 50k new iirc and was selling for about 21-22k.

Theres much to be said about the smoothness of a inline six over a four cylinder diesel though. I know which one I would rather have if in the long term there was only a couple of hundred quid in the difference.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

166man wrote: »

Theres much to be said about the smoothness of a inline six over a four cylinder diesel though. I know which one I would rather have if in the long term there was only a couple of hundred quid in the difference.

Thats true, you really need a V8, V10, V12 petrol to get real smoothness, at 6 cylinders its still too rough.

heate

If you can afford the tax buy a 530i and cut the legs off the seller - buying 3.0 petrol car at a time hen fuel prices are rising and income is falling is a sure fire way to scare a seller into price reductions.
Large petrol engines cars are probably due a final death knell in this country it's just hasn't been decided upon by government.