Etihad interested in Aer Lingus?

roundymac

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/etihad-expresses-interest-in-aer-lingus-183351.html
Wonder how much of this to believe.

zone 1

Will it be ..... aer Etihad in time..

David086

Why is it that the EU prohibits foreign airlines to buy out airlines based in the EU?

donkey balls

David086 wrote: »

Why is it that the EU prohibits foreign airlines to buy out airlines based in the EU?

The USA also have the same rule in that a foreign company/person cannot own more than 49% of a US airline, Years back when DHL express was in the process of being bought out by DPWN both UPS&FEDEX joined together in some form of law suit to stop it happening.
As it happens DHL don't have their own aircraft based in the USA any more it's all wet lease from what I heard and that they use alot of commercial airlines to carry there frieght.

Pilotman

There are four very interested parties in acquiring the government's 25% stake in Aer Lingus. They are Etihad, Emirates, Qatar and Ryanair.

In the case of the first three, their principal interest is in Aer Lingus' huge allocation of highly coveted Heathrow slots. In case of the fourth, the interest is in developing a highly successful Irish long-haul enterprise and folding the green shorthaul operation into its own.

The problem is that, along with the airline's many and well documented industrial problems and Marxist-Leninist work practises, any prospective purchaser of Aer Lingus not only has to contend with nearly one third of the shares being owned by Ryanair, notoriously disinclined to play nicely with others, but also the vastly underfunded staff pension pot, the hole in which is worth more than the entire airline, based on market capitalisation.

In other words, as it currently stands, Aer Lingus is an underfunded pension scheme with a loss-making airline attached to it. Not a very tasty morsel to the hungry, cashed-up sharks circling the Gulf of Oman, unless of course you understand the Arab fascination with shinny things like lovely LHR slots!

In considering to whom it should sell, I would urge Leo V. and his colleagues in the Irish Government to seriously consider the state of Aer Lingus five years from now when the Arabs have bought out Ryanair's interest (also for sale at the right price) and filleted our lovely Irish airline of it's LHR slots thus reducing it to a loss making minnow in the Irish Longhaul sector with an even more loss making European regional airline, only this time with no Heathrow access.

Quite a bleak future, I would suggest. Certainly the government won't bail Aer Lingus out any more even if it wanted to, because our current landlords at the IMF simply won't permit it. As unpalatable as it may seem to some, the only way to rescue proud Aer Lingus from the scrap heap of history, is to sell the government's stake to Ryanair thus creating a Irish Airline Group with global reach and well able to compete with the developing European Mega carriers. Lets those of us with any remaining love for Aer Lingus, hope that hubris and hysteria doesn't eclipse common sense and the inevitable yet again.

roundymac

If Ryanair(MOL) buys the government stake, they'll close the airline down and dismiss all the workers at the first sign of a industrial action which as sure as night follows day will happen. He did it when they bought Buzz off KLM and he will do the same here, so at the end of the day it does not matter who buys it , it will be carved up anyway.

donvito99

Pilotman wrote: »

In other words, as it currently stands, Aer Lingus is an underfunded pension scheme

Agreed

with a loss-making airline attached to it.

Aer Lingus is a profitable, and has been for a year or two.

Mister Jingles

roundymac wrote: »

If Ryanair(MOL) buys the government stake, they'll close the airline down and dismiss all the workers at the first sign of a industrial action which as sure as night follows day will happen. He did it when they bought Buzz off KLM and he will do the same here, so at the end of the day it does not matter who buys it , it will be carved up anyway.

Don't know if he was being smart or not but MOL did say on The Late Late Show that the government wouldn't sell him their share.

Pilotman

they'll close the airline down and dismiss all the workers at the first sign of a industrial action which as sure as night follows day will happen.

Perhaps you're right, roundymac, but if you accept that Aer Lingus is doomed eventually, and by any informed, rational analysis it is, then whoever takes it over will reach for the carving knife sooner or later. They have to in order for it to have any chance of survival. It only remains to be seen at the hands of whom, and by how much the knife will be swung.

In the Ryanair scenario, those Aer Lingus employees capable of adapting to the new regime and opportunities, will enjoy employment and a future. Those that can't or won't will go the way of the dinosaur, which is probably as it should be.

Aer Lingus is a profitable, and has been for a year or two.

One swallow does not a summer make, donvito99. Smoke and mirror accountancy can turn night to day in the short term...but not for long.

MOL did say on The Late Late Show that the government wouldn't sell him their share.

The government will do what the IMF will tell them to do, Mister Jingles. For now, they have us by the testicles.

Turbine

Pilotman wrote: »

There are four very interested parties in acquiring the government's 25% stake in Aer Lingus. They are Etihad, Emirates, Qatar and Ryanair.

Ryanair have made it clear they're not interested in the government's stake in Aer Lingus, and would actually be prepared to sell their own stake if the price was right.

And where are you getting Emirates from? They've shown no interest at all in acquiring Aer Lingus.

Pilotman wrote: »

In other words, as it currently stands, Aer Lingus is an underfunded pension scheme with a loss-making airline attached to it. Not a very tasty morsel to the hungry, cashed-up sharks circling the Gulf of Oman, unless of course you understand the Arab fascination with shinny things like lovely LHR slots!

In considering to whom it should sell, I would urge Leo V. and his colleagues in the Irish Government to seriously consider the state of Aer Lingus five years from now when the Arabs have bought out Ryanair's interest (also for sale at the right price) and filleted our lovely Irish airline of it's LHR slots thus reducing it to a loss making minnow in the Irish Longhaul sector with an even more loss making European regional airline, only this time with no Heathrow access.

Quite a bleak future, I would suggest. Certainly the government won't bail Aer Lingus out any more even if it wanted to, because our current landlords at the IMF simply won't permit it. As unpalatable as it may seem to some, the only way to rescue proud Aer Lingus from the scrap heap of history, is to sell the government's stake to Ryanair thus creating a Irish Airline Group with global reach and well able to compete with the developing European Mega carriers. Lets those of us with any remaining love for Aer Lingus, hope that hubris and hysteria doesn't eclipse common sense and the inevitable yet again.

What are you on about? Aer Lingus made a profit in 2010 and are set to make a profit again for 2011 and have made over €100 million in cost-savings in recent years. Passenger numbers are up, yields are up, and they're actually expanding net capacity this year for the first time since the recession started.

Apart from the pension issue, you couldn't be any more off the mark with your post, which sounds more like an analysis of the airline 5 years ago than the state its in today.

And its not our 'IMF landlords' stopping the government investing in Aer Lingus, its EU state aid rules that the European Commission have been enforcing for years and which only resulted in Malev ceasing operations last week.

Pilotman

Passenger numbers are up, yields are up, and they're actually expanding net capacity this year for the first time since the recession started.

If you believe truly belive this shower of shyte to be true, Turbine, and not just Christoph Mueller cooking the books for bonuses before the Golden Parachute cord is pulled, I've a bridge in Brooklyn I'd be interested in selling you. Santa clause is for real and the tooth fairy works part time as an Aer Lingus flight attendant.

Far be it for me to point out the metrics of Airline Economics 101, but when your principal competitor produces the same perishable commodity as you for less than half the price; when your longhaul operation is exclusively trans-altantic with no major airline aliance; where unions of the lunatic left hold sway, and when your home market is suffering the deepest and most catastrophic recession in the history of its existence; you've got a few headaches to deal with.

Emirates is indeed interested in Aer Lingus and have been long before their overdue entry into the Irish eastbound longhaul market was commenced last month. As I'm sure you would know, so overwhelmed have Emirates been since the introduction of their daily DXB service, they've had to upgrade the equipment from A330 to B777-300ER. Emirates currently operate 4 A380-800'S PER DAY from LHR and still they can't keep up with demand. Fifty LHR slot pairs daily gets a LOT of attention in the Gulf, I can assure you. Don't take my word for it, Turbine, ring Tim Clark or Maurice Flanagan and ask them. Tell 'em I said hi.

bladeruner

Pilot man , rarely have I read a post in the A & A forum that is so error strewn and misinformed.

Please repost once you have checked your information preferably with links to your assertions.
I don't have all night to go through your post line by line and in any case I'm not a muinteoir with a red pen.

MoeJay

Pilotman makes a few claims about Aer Lingus and the pension scheme but neglects a very obvious parallel with the BA/IB merger. (and I don't like feeding trolls)

But anyway:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-29/british-airways-wins-99-shareholder-approval-for-9-billion-iberia-merger.html

If you recall, you might find it interesting that at the time BA had a market value of just over £3bn and a pension deficit of £3.7bn.

So why did the boards approve the merger? Once BA figured out some plan with the pension deficit, and the exposure was defined, everyone got on board..

Now Aer Lingus finds itself involved in a multi-employer pension scheme. A scheme that is in deficit, but nobody has quantified the level of debt apportioned to each employer represented in the scheme. Aer Rianta/DAA are already debt-ridden; SRT have fled the scene; why would Aer Lingus accept liability of one cent more than it has to?

Once Aer Lingus' maximum liability is defined and some scheme is put in place to address the deficit (not necessarily eliminate it - witness BA again), investors will not be difficult to find.

Aer Lingus is profitable on an operational level, has a (relatively) massive pile of cash, can meet all of its debt obligations and has access to one of Europe's biggest air hubs that is out of proportion to its total size.

I won't take the rest of the bait - I'd be banned for a week!

Turbine

Pilotman wrote: »

If you believe truly belive this shower of shyte to be true, Turbine, and not just Christoph Mueller cooking the books for bonuses before the Golden Parachute cord is pulled, I've a bridge in Brooklyn I'd be interested in selling you. Santa clause is for real and the tooth fairy works part time as an Aer Lingus flight attendant.

I don't actually know how to respond to this. You call the left a bunch of lunatics? You'd wanna check yourself first...

And I'd be careful about what you post. Just because you have an anonymous username doesn't mean you can defame any company you want.

Pilotman wrote: »

Far be it for me to point out the metrics of Airline Economics 101, but when your principal competitor produces the same perishable commodity as you for less than half the price

lol I didn't know aircraft transport was a perishable commodity. But as has been pointed out to you, Aer Lingus have made efforts to reduce their cost base but the reality is they'll never reduce it to the level of Ryanair without sacrificing their product entirely.

Seen as you're clued up on basic economics though, I'm sure you'd know that theres no point in offering the same product as your rival, you have to offer something thats either better value or unique compared to what your competitors are offering. In the case of Aer Lingus, there's no point in them reducing costs to Ryanair's level because they would destroy their own product and sacrifice a large part of their main market in doing so, which would just end up being taken up by other airlines such as BMI or Lufthansa. Aer Lingus have made a huge success of operating a hybrid business model, offering a product between full service and discount where certain services are offered for free that discount carriers would charge for, which serves to attract business travellers and allow them to increase yield per seat.

Pilotman wrote: »

when your longhaul operation is exclusively trans-altantic with no major airline aliance

Aer Lingus will be joining one of the transatlantic joint ventures in the next year as a non-alliance member. The reason they didn't join an alliance altogether was because the costs outweighed the benefits.

Pilotman wrote: »

when your home market is suffering the deepest and most catastrophic recession in the history of its existence; you've got a few headaches to deal with.

Well considering that most of the European economies are suffering as a result of the financial crisis and the ongoing euro crisis, Aer Lingus are doing well to be making a profit.

Pilotman wrote: »

Emirates is indeed interested in Aer Lingus and have been long before their overdue entry into the Irish eastbound longhaul market was commenced last month. As I'm sure you would know, so overwhelmed have Emirates been since the introduction of their daily DXB service, they've had to upgrade the equipment from A330 to B777-300ER. Emirates currently operate 4 A380-800'S PER DAY from LHR and still they can't keep up with demand. Fifty LHR slot pairs daily gets a LOT of attention in the Gulf, I can assure you. Don't take my word for it, Turbine, ring Tim Clark or Maurice Flanagan and ask them. Tell 'em I said hi.

I don't doubt your close links to Tim Clark:rolleyes:, but show me something to say Emirates have expressed one bit of interest in Aer Lingus. Surely going by your logic, every airline with a bit of cash to spend would be interested in buying Aer Lingus for their Heathrow slots?

The fact is the only airlines that have shown any interest in Aer Lingus publicly are Etihad and Qatar Airways.

basill

I wouldn't be wound up to much about the pension deficit. Sure its large but at least its on the table now to be debated amongst the stakeholders. Part of the problem has been that there has been nothing done to sort it out up until now eg: increased contributions/caps/change of investment strategy etc.

Its also worth bearing in mind that as sure as night follows day and markets swing a new valuation can suddenly change the state of play. At the end of the day so long as the fund has enough cash to pay the retirees and gets its house in order then all will be well.

As for all of the other misinformed and plain wrong posts earlier its not even worth commenting on. Pilotman you should at least take the time to download the annual accounts of AL before posting. They are freely available you know.

roundymac

One of the problems with the pension is that Ryanair has already stated the if AL try's to top up the pension fund out of it's cash reserve it will take legal action to stop it happening. Having Ryanair as a share holder must be "fun":eek: I have yet to hear Ryanair make a constructive proposal in relation to any part of Al operation.

Pilotman

lol I didn't know aircraft transport was a perishable commodity.

If you know of a more perishable commodity than airline seats, Turbine, I'd like to know about it. As soon as they take to the sky whilst empty, they rot quicker than week-old fish. That's what I meant by perishable. Could I refer you to my previous...

hope that hubris and hysteria doesn't eclipse common sense and the inevitable yet again.

Vested interests have prevented Shamrock from thriving in the recent past, since the glory days when they could charge IR£300 each way to Manchester, I mean. Remember those days? I do.

But wait, there's more!

Aer Lingus have made a huge success of operating a hybrid business model

Huge success? Aer Lingus cheerleaders may claim a temporary new dawn, but any shrewd CFO can cook the books in the short term. Operationally, EI are a basket case and not fit to be mentioned in the same breath as BMI and Lufthansa, to use your examples, both of whom offer vastly superior service and time keeping than Aer Lingus, with its 34 little minibuses. Huge success, you say? Maybe for the baggage handlers and flight attendants. Not so successful for the shareholders, though.

where certain services are offered for free that discount carriers would charge for

Tell me something that you don't pay for on Aer Lingus, Turbine. Seat allocation, check. Baggage in the hold, check. Drinks and snacks in economy, check.

How do you measure this "huge success" you speak of? While you're considering that, when's the last time you travelled on an Aer Lingus flight that departed and arrived on time? Punctuality and unions aren't on speaking terms, or so it seems. Certainly flying on time doesn't seem to part of this "huge success" you write of.

Lets wait and see, shall we? I'm pretty sure EK, EY, QR and FR will still be standing 5 years from now. Aer Lingus in its present form though? I don't think so, unless somebody sees the light, and soon too.

Jawgap

Their first half financials for last year make interesting reading.

Over €900 million in cash, but they've deferred fleet replacement until 2018/19 (waiting to see if they are sold??) and there's the matter of the pension deficit. They've about €550 million in debt too.

It looks like their fuel hedging is keeping them profitable in the operational sense for the moment.

They recorded a loss before tax on the half-year period, but a profit on the second quarter.

Their margin is about 7.5% - Ryanair's is about twice that.

onedmc

Pilotman wrote: »

There are four very interested parties in acquiring the government's 25% stake in Aer Lingus. They are Etihad, Emirates, Qatar and Ryanair.

In the case of the first three, their principal interest is in Aer Lingus' huge allocation of highly coveted Heathrow slots. In case of the fourth, the interest is in developing a highly successful Irish long-haul enterprise and folding the green shorthaul operation into its own.

This winds me up big time. If Ryanair take over AerLingus the prices will go up big time.

I travel very regularly (say 150 legs a year) with two returns to the Uk this week alone.

Ryanair is not always cheap, I just paid 400 return to the UK with Ryanair on a flight that is less than half full. However up the road in BHX where there is competition the flight prices would be 120 return on Ryanair and 135 on AerLingus.
Likewise try book a summer flight to somewhere that AerLingus doesn’t fly to like Biarritz. You’ll pay through the nose with Ryanair but check same date in the uk with Ryanair where there is another low cost like easy jet in competition and its less than half the price.

Ryanair has helped to bring the business of flying into line and I fly with then 25 or 30 time a year but they are no saviour, we MUST HAVE COMPETITION and ryanair killed off easyjets and Aer Aranns attempts.

Skyhawk684

Pilotman wrote: »

While you're considering that, when's the last time you travelled on an Aer Lingus flight that departed and arrived on time?

Are you sure we are talking about the same Aer Lingus here? I fly with Aer Lingus around four times a year and never has my flight been delayed or not on time.

I am pie

Skyhawk684 wrote: »

Are you sure we are talking about the same Aer Lingus here? I fly with Aer Lingus around four times a year and never has my flight been delayed or not on time.

My last Aer Lingus flight home from the UK (last Friday) was an hour late due to unavailability of crew, we had to wait for another crew to arrive from a different flight. In my experience Aer Lingus delays out of London airports on a Friday evening are par for the course.

donvito99

Pilotman wrote: »

Huge success? Aer Lingus cheerleaders may claim a temporary new dawn, but any shrewd CFO can cook the books in the short term. Operationally, EI are a basket case and not fit to be mentioned in the same breath as BMI and Lufthansa

BMI are in dire straits, and are going the way of the dodo, so operationaly I should think its BD, with even smaller "minibuses" and an even smaller fleet in general, who shouldn't be uttered in the same breath as EI or Lufthansa. Having flown BMI between DUB and LHR, the complimentary muffin and juice (and sin é) does not make up for the substantial saving with EI.

Turbine

Pilotman wrote: »

If you know of a more perishable commodity than airline seats, Turbine, I'd like to know about it. As soon as they take to the sky whilst empty, they rot quicker than week-old fish. That's what I meant by perishable.

I think that's stretching the definition of perishable commodity to the extreme.

Pilotman wrote: »

Huge success? Aer Lingus cheerleaders may claim a temporary new dawn, but any shrewd CFO can cook the books in the short term. Operationally, EI are a basket case and not fit to be mentioned in the same breath as BMI and Lufthansa, to use your examples, both of whom offer vastly superior service and time keeping than Aer Lingus, with its 34 little minibuses. Huge success, you say? Maybe for the baggage handlers and flight attendants. Not so successful for the shareholders, though.

I'm no Aer Lingus cheerleader, but are you seriously trying to say that an airline like BMI, which is haemorrhaging losses and as a result had to be sold off by Lufthansa for a fraction of what they bought it for, is in a better position than Aer Lingus who actually turn a profit?

You haven't actually given any reason why you think Aer Lingus' hybrid model hasn't been a success, you're just spouting nonsense that makes no sense to anyone.

Pilotman wrote: »

Tell me something that you don't pay for on Aer Lingus, Turbine. Seat allocation, check. Baggage in the hold, check. Drinks and snacks in economy, check.

Online check-in and seat allocation is free on long-haul. Meals are also free on long-haul flights, as is the IFE which they could easily be charging money for. Depending on the fare type, you're also given a checked-in baggage allowance of at least 1 bag, as well as 1 carry on bag. And if you choose the business or flexi-fare, you're given free lounge access. And on short-haul, you're given an allowance of 1 carry on bag (the same as Ryanair).

Pilotman wrote: »

How do you measure this "huge success" you speak of? While you're considering that, when's the last time you travelled on an Aer Lingus flight that departed and arrived on time? Punctuality and unions aren't on speaking terms, or so it seems. Certainly flying on time doesn't seem to part of this "huge success" you write of.

They went from losing tens of millions to making a profit, which was due to a combination of cost-cutting and a change in their business model. They reduced capacity and in doing so they turned a profit on their long-haul network after years of losses, and increased yields on long-haul and short-haul by moving away from focusing on 'seats filled' (the Ryanair model) to focusing on yield per seat. Through a franchise agreement with Aer Arann, they're making money on routes that were previously unprofitable when operated by A320s, and through the use of smaller aircraft, they've been able to offer more frequencies on certain routes which has served to increase passenger numbers.

All the hallmarks of a failing airline needing to be bailed out by the government right?:rolleyes:

Pilotman wrote: »

Lets wait and see, shall we? I'm pretty sure EK, EY, QR and FR will still be standing 5 years from now. Aer Lingus in its present form though? I don't think so, unless somebody sees the light, and soon too.

Well you can't even be bothered to read up on the current state of Aer Lingus, so who are you to say where they'll be?

Bessarion

Pilotman wrote: »

........While you're considering that, when's the last time you travelled on an Aer Lingus flight that departed and arrived on time? Punctuality and unions aren't on speaking terms, or so it seems. Certainly flying on time doesn't seem to part of this "huge success" you write of.

So you are saying that the 'unions' are deliberately delaying the EI flights, do you think the crew on those flights actually WANT to be home late?

How about the airline is scheduling aircraft unrealistic turnarounds? 40 min turnaround on the schedule for my last EI flight (CDG) Both sectors close to full (you can see the pax getting off the inbound in CDG) Boarding call was made before the fueller had disconnected, the flight was still delayed as the disembarkation/fuelling/boarding process for 300+ people takes longer than 40 mins. In that case I couldn't see how they could have been ready to board any sooner.

FR can do it in under 40 mins as the non-assigned seating and single bag rule encourages fast boarding......Genius!

Jawgap wrote: »

Their first half financials [/URL]for last year make interesting reading.

Over €900 million in cash, but they've deferred fleet replacement until 2018/19 (waiting to see if they are sold??) and there's the matter of the pension deficit. They've about €550 million in debt too.

Their margin is about 7.5% - Ryanair's is about twice that.

FR and EI are different business models, 1 is 90% based in Ireland while the other is all over Europe and thus has some insulation against recession in 1-2 nations.

For your info Delta Airlines released their 2011 results, less than $80M profit and a margin of profit 5.4%. Should we pillory this airline too?

EI have deferred aircraft delivery as it is a prudent move,they have a relatively young fleet. The previous mgmt team had been feckless with cash, the current team is plugging the gaps that had been left. Is it wrong to be prudent?

onedmc

I am pie wrote: »

My last Aer Lingus flight home from the UK (last Friday) was an hour late due to unavailability of crew, we had to wait for another crew to arrive from a different flight. In my experience Aer Lingus delays out of London airports on a Friday evening are par for the course.

My last flight on Ryanair was 2.5 hours late.

However I do agrees that the efficiency that ryanair changed plane was impressive. They are more aggressive on correcting issues, making decisions even if that means cancelling flights.

My experience is that both airline take just as long to get there on like for like routes but Aer Lingus are late more often. Yes, it does make sense work it out.

Nearly all morning flights to Lhr are late but I fine gatwich fine with both airlines, this is the only like for like location in London.

basill

At the pointy end we are seeing a deteoriation in punctuality due largely to cabin baggage. Essentially people try and avoid the bag fees by bringing on wheelie bags that should never be allowed to enter the cabin in the first place in addition to their laptop, handbag, duty free etc.

Those that get on first seem to get away with it whilst those boarding later require the bags to be tagged and put into the hold as their is physically no space left.

Also it seems to be a bit of a game for people that are in the back of the aircraft to dump their bags in the first few rows overhead bins thus depriving those passengers of any space. So these pax then have to head down the cabin to find space thus holding up the boarding process.

Clearly its an issue brought on itself by AL. Many pax will travel with AL in preference to FR to avoid being treated like cattle. But as a result we end up with the delays of trying to get everyone on with all of the above going on.

Jawgap

Bessarion wrote: »

[snip]

For your info Delta Airlines released their 2011 results, less than $80M profit and a margin of profit 5.4%. Should we pillory this airline too?

EI have deferred aircraft delivery as it is a prudent move,they have a relatively young fleet. The previous mgmt team had been feckless with cash, the current team is plugging the gaps that had been left. Is it wrong to be prudent?

I wasn't pillorying any airline - the point I was trying to make (obviously not very well) is that profitability is a nebulous concept - depending on how you read their figures Aer Lingus is doing well, holding its own or sinking slowly.

Yes it is right to be prudent, but you can be too prudent!! Too much cash on the balance sheet makes for being a tempting takeover target.

Aer Lingus' market capitalisation is about 495million - buy the airline (if it could be done) you get the debt, but for that money you get the Heathrow slots and the cash on hand - The question at this stage is how much any prospective buyer would have to put on the table to get Ryanair and the Government to sell their stakes?

And just for the record, I'd rather fly Aer Lingus than Ryanair any day - Aer Lingus would be my airline of choice, Ryanair are definitely my airline of last resort behind every other airline, the train, ferries and the car:)

Dacian

Jawgap wrote: »

I wasn't pillorying any airline - the point I was trying to make (obviously not very well) is that profitability is a nebulous concept - depending on how you read their figures Aer Lingus is doing well, holding its own or sinking slowly.....

Well having read the 2011 Half year results (and gearing up to read through the 2001 Full Year results to be announced on Feb 28th) we can see that while EI have 900M in cash reserves only 335M of that is free cash, the other 600M odd is earmarked for leasing payments.

While I agree that all companies can juggle figures to create a smokescreen EI as a public company have to be transparent in their figures. And for any airline to make a profit at the moment is a pretty good achievement.

I think EI are 'holding their own' at the moment......however doing so may not be enough in the long term. The CEO has already made comments along the lines of plotting a course for EI in the next 2-5 years, whether that is merger/acqusition/alliance membership remains to be seen.


To get back to the matter in hand....has anyone else noticed that the EI share price has risen ever since the Govt talked about separating the EI pension liability from the company itself? (The Irish Airlines pension fund was split between Aer Rianta/Aer Lingus/Team FLS)

So those posters going on about the pension deficit are perhaps being taken over by events. Obviously investors somewhere are thinking that EI now look like an attractive and profitable investment.

CaptainSkidmark

What is Aer Lingus's ownership comprised of?

Tenger

Looks like there is 41% on the market according to the ise.ie listing for EI- (scroll down to 'free float')
http://www.ise.ie/Prices,-Indices-Stats/Equity-Market-Data/EquityDetails/?equity=41372

Govt has 25%, FR have 29% but neither is selling. I think the staff were allocated 15-20% but they may well have sold some/all of that. Didn't the EI pilots buy up 3-4% when FR made their first bid?


The Govt have indicated that they will sell to a bidder a 'good' price, over 1.00 is a given. FR have then announced they would be willing to sell their shares to this bidder "provided it is a well run and profitable airline" So in theory, EY (or anyone else) could buy the FR 29% and just 20% from the Govt (leaving 5% in Govt hands) thus keeping within the EU rules.

roundymac

I thought the pilot's shareholding was higher, around 12-13%.This is from their pension fund is'nt it?