School list process - religion

Zamboni

I have read many standard admission poliicies but none clearly explain my question.

If there are 200 places in a Catholic schoool and 230 apply. Are all the non Catholics put to the bottom of the list regardless of the time of their application? And do all other criteria such as distance from school, siblings etc. become irrelevant in the case of non Catholics?

In other words, if your child is not a Catholic, do you have to (a) hope the demand is less than the places available, and (b) hope that you have registered before all the other non Catholics?

This is not a thread about questioning the rights or wrongs of discrimination or the Equal Status Act, it is purely an information request.

Thanks

Orion

There are no standard admission policies. Every school has its own one. Policies should clearly state the acceptance criteria. There's no real answer to your question without knowing the actual policy your concerned about.

Zamboni

Orion wrote: »

There are no standard admission policies. Every school has its own one. Policies should clearly state the acceptance criteria. There's no real answer to your question without knowing the actual policy your concerned about.

The specific school admission policy makes zero reference to religion in its criteria for admission. The criteria for admission are solely dependant on timing of enrolement, distance to school and siblings.

However, when I spoke to the school I was told Catholic children would be given places ahead of non Catholic children.
Are schools allowed to discriminate against non Catholic children if they make no mention of this in their own admission policy?

Orion

No they are not. They must follow their policy - failure to do so could lead to a Section 29 appeal and they would lose. There is nothing to stop them changing their policy but the one in place when you enrolled is the one that applies to you.

Zamboni

Orion wrote: »

No they are not. They must follow their policy - failure to do so could lead to a Section 29 appeal and they would lose. There is nothing to stop them changing their policy but the one in place when you enrolled is the one that applies to you.

That's what I thought.
So, even though they are given scope under the Equal Status Act to discriminate under religious grounds, if they do not state religion as a selection criteria this in their admissions policy then they lose the ability to discriminate as they are not following their own rules?

Orion

Correct. The Equal Status Act provides the framework that they must work within. But their own policy is what ties their hands regarding enrolments.

echo beach

Zamboni wrote: »

That's what I thought.
So, even though they are given scope under the Equal Status Act to discriminate under religious grounds, if they do not state religion as a selection criteria this in their admissions policy then they lose the ability to discriminate as they are not following their own rules?

Very few schools are willing to put it in writing that they discriminate, even if that discrimation is legal.
Yet they are willing to illegally discriminate as they told the OP that Catholic children would be given the places first, although it doesn't say that in the enrolment policy.

Best thing would be to write to the Board of Management asking them to confirm in writing if what you were told is correct as it doesn't seem to agree with their own policy. I suspect you will find there has been a 'misunderstanding'.

deelite

My understanding is "catchment area was first" and then its s free for all more or less

byhookorbycrook

Deelite, it very much varies, some schools don't have a defined catchement area, take siblings 1st, don't take religion into account at all.Even if there is a defined catchement area, there may not be enough places to serve all the children in that area, hence other criteria are used.

Thereyago

Look at the enrollment policy of this school
http://www.starofthesea.ie/enrolment_policy.html (number 5)

It clearly gives preference to catholic children before non-catholics

With 93% of schools being catholic, how can they be allowed to do this.
I really wish the minister would take action on this issue. All children should be given equal status on waiting lists.

The issue of how they deal with religion/patronage in the school is a separate issue.


As an atheist parent it looks like I'm going to have to get my child baptized for the sake of his education. It disgusts me... but I have to put his education first. It really is unbelievable that Ireland is like this in 2012.

lazygal

Schools are exempt from the Equal Status Act, it is entirely legal for them to decline to enroll people not of the faith of the school to protect their ethos. We will not be baptizing our child. We hope to enroll in the local educate together school but if we have to we will send him/her to the local Catholic schools. There are two other schools in our locality that have and do decline enrollment to non Catholic or CofI children.

Orion

Thereyago wrote: »

As an atheist parent it looks like I'm going to have to get my child baptized for the sake of his education. It disgusts me... but I have to put his education first. It really is unbelievable that Ireland is like this in 2012.

We got lucky in that ET decided to apply for patronage in Maynooth for the same year that our kids were due to start school. We were at the first meeting of interested parents in January and after 8.5 months of hard work the school opened that September. We also had them enrolled (and had places) in the ET school in Celbridge prior to even the first meeting.

That said - I would not have baptised them just to get a school place. No question about it. I could not be that hypocrite. If it came to it that the local religious school(s) didn't accept them then I would challenge the Minister (in court if necessary) to provide for their primary education as guaranteed by the Constitution. Don't go against your principles. If you do baptise your child then you are assisting in perpetuating the myth that 90%+ people are happy with the status quo.

huskerdu

Thereyago wrote: »

Look at the enrollment policy of this school
http://www.starofthesea.ie/enrolment_policy.html (number 5)

It clearly gives preference to catholic children before non-catholics

With 93% of schools being catholic, how can they be allowed to do this.
I really wish the minister would take action on this issue. All children should be given equal status on waiting lists.

The issue of how they deal with religion/patronage in the school is a separate issue.


As an atheist parent it looks like I'm going to have to get my child baptized for the sake of his education. It disgusts me... but I have to put his education first. It really is unbelievable that Ireland is like this in 2012.

I, too am an atheist and I did not have my child baptized for the sake of him education and my children are attending a local Catholic school.

I know it stinks, and I agree that it should change but plenty of Catholic schools do take non-Catholics.