Is there a Comp Science degree that outshines the rest in & around Greater Dublin?

runswithascript

I have applied for Computer *Science in TCD, UCD, DCU (*Applications), NUIM, and DIT.

Aware that nobody has a crystal ball here, I am wondering if anyone especially but not restricted to recruiters would be able to offer an opinion on which course is currently and speculatively in the future offering the best job prospects?

Perhaps there is so much work out there in programming it does not make much of a difference?

I am Googling trying to understand the difference between software development and software engineering.

krd

The snob value of TCD and UCD gives a premium.

Your snob value will get you past Human Resources.

And if you go to UCD, you'll likely get called to an interview with some Hurraw Henry, who just wants to talk about rugby.

Trinity looks good on a CV. Even you decide to do something completely different after your degree, its snob value will stand to yah.

Fad

They're all pretty different.

TCD's seems pretty good from what I've heard, they seem to know an awful lot of maths, different languages and do a fair bit of hardware.

UCD's is grand, but I'm in the last year year of the old course. The guys who started the year after me seem to have a much more focused degree.

I've always heard DCU being held above the rest in terms of practical skills you get out of it. It just gets a bad name cos of the drop out rate.

I know one guy in DIT, supposed to be decent.

Know nothing about NUIM.

Sparks

Yes, there's a single best choice that outshines all the others, it's <INSERT NAME OF COLLEGE COURSE DONE BY POSTER TEN YEARS AGO HERE>, and it's obviously far superior to the course in <INSERT NAME OF COLLEGE TRADITIONALLY BESMIRCHED FOR AMUSEMENT BY PARTICIPANTS IN POSTER'S COLLEGE COURSE>.

Sparks

Or, more helpfully,

• TCD and UCD have courses with good reputations, which might help in your first interview for your first job. After that first job, the importance of your academic qualifications decreases and the importance of your portfolio of work increases, rather rapidly.
• UL has a fantastic reputation for work placement.
• DCU has a reputation for focussing on industry requirements, though that's usually said in a tone that implies it's shortchanging important academic aspects to do so. Frankly, I've yet to meet a DCU graduate who proved that to be true.
• Haven't heard anything about DIT or NUIM, though I've heard of DCU and DIT being confused by some HR folk.
• None of this will matter to you within three years or so of graduation. And since the reputation of your college will be whatever the HR guy/gal reading the CV had heard, and they probably didn't go to your college and probably didn't do a CS/Eng course in the first place, it probably won't matter to you much in the first three years either.

TrueDub

Where you did your degree, and what you did on it, are only relevant for your first job. After that, it's all about experience.

srsly78

Get a maths or physics degree, then you will get jobs over the compsci guys :pac:

runswithascript

Sparks wrote: »

Yes, there's a single best choice that outshines all the others, it's <INSERT NAME OF COLLEGE COURSE DONE BY POSTER TEN YEARS AGO HERE>, and it's obviously far superior to the course in <INSERT NAME OF COLLEGE TRADITIONALLY BESMIRCHED FOR AMUSEMENT BY PARTICIPANTS IN POSTER'S COLLEGE COURSE>.

If you had left your post at that you would have been besmirched for amusement!

That is to say on asking this question I was well aware there may be a certain amount of bias from someone who has read at one of the universities, but I am also well aware that there are few in a better position to offer an opinion as those who have.

Or, more helpfully,

• TCD and UCD have courses with good reputations, which might help in your first interview for your first job. After that first job, the importance of your academic qualifications decreases and the importance of your portfolio of work increases, rather rapidly.

Acknowledged, but important nevertheless as they cannot all be equal.

Sparks wrote: »

• UL has a fantastic reputation for work placement.

A bit far afield from the Greater Dublin Area perhaps.

• DCU has a reputation for focussing on industry requirements, though that's usually said in a tone that implies it's shortchanging important academic aspects to do so. Frankly, I've yet to meet a DCU graduate who proved that to be true.

Yes, I have heard many people say DCU's course is more 'practical' than TCD or UCD, although also warning me that comes at a loss and after advising me the two latter courses were better.

• None of this will matter to you within three years or so of graduation. And since the reputation of your college will be whatever the HR guy/gal reading the CV had heard, and they probably didn't go to your college and probably didn't do a CS/Eng course in the first place, it probably won't matter to you much in the first three years either.

TrueDub wrote: »

Where you did your degree, and what you did on it, are only relevant for your first job. After that, it's all about experience.

Yes, but surely all things are not equal and some or preferably one of the courses offers a better education and/or job prospects than the rest!

Let me tell you that to those who have still to decide on a university the importance of the education and job prospects they will receive seems a lot more important to those who have the choice in their past!

Giblet

I went to IT Tallaght, and I felt it was better geared towards current trends moreso than any University offering. They also have a good relationship with Microsoft, they viewed 4th year projects along with a number of other companies. Regards to whether the reputation would help me get my foot in the door so to speak? Well let's just say if it didn't, their loss.

Webmonkey

Giblet wrote: »

I went to IT Tallaght, and I felt it was better geared towards current trends moreso than any University offering. They also have a good relationship with Microsoft, they viewed 4th year projects along with a number of other companies. Regards to whether the reputation would help me get my foot in the door so to speak? Well let's just say if it didn't, their loss.

Have to agree with this. That's my attitude as well, their loss. I don't care I'm working in an excellent job now. Once you can prove yourself and have a good portfolio, that's much better than the origin of a piece of paper.

GetWithIt

I'd give a +1 to IT Tallaght.

I've interviewed a number of graduates over the last 18 months and we made more offers to graduates of IT Tallaght than anywhere else.

It was only in retrospect than this was obvious to us and we would have been more inclined towards graduates from the Universities prior to the interview process.

They seem to have a greater emphasis on creating businesses and tend to produce graduates who can both walk and talk - a major plus.

amen

Get a maths or physics degree, then you will get jobs over the compsci guys

+10 for this.

Raskolnikov

In the past, I think there was some discrimination by employers depending on where you got your degree. From what I can see now, that has disappeared. Certainly, when I have been involved in interviews, the university attended isn't even a factor. I think what's more important is your degree result and whether you got work experience doing .net development in Microsoft, rather than photocopying documents at the local county council.

Trojan

DCU has a reputation for not giving a damn about student experience - results are all that matters.

Procasinator

dusf wrote: »

I am Googling trying to understand the difference between software development and software engineering.

There is a thread here that makes the differences crystal clear. :P

runswithascript

Procasinator wrote: »

There is a thread here that makes the differences crystal clear. :P

Looked through the stickies and searched the board for 'software engineering development difference' and found nothing.

Enlighten me.

doopa

Look on Linkedin for people doing the kinds of jobs you want to do and see where they studied.

I've worked with people who did the DCU Comp Sci course and would attest to the fact that they can all program - can't say the same for graduate of the others though the sample size is too small to be statistically significant.

Neodymium

Thread about the differences between software engineering and software development is here

runswithascript

doopa wrote: »

Look on Linkedin for people doing the kinds of jobs you want to do and see where they studied.

I've worked with people who did the DCU Comp Sci course and would attest to the fact that they can all program - can't say the same for graduate of the others though the sample size is too small to be statistically significant.

Thanks that's a good idea. I will of course look at areas I that intrigue me, but out of interest in which area can non-manager programmers make the best big bucks?

Surely the majority of those who come out the other side of a computer science degree can program?! Or perhaps you mean can program very well, although I would have thought anyone with said degree could.

doopa

dusf wrote: »

Thanks that's a good idea. I will of course look at areas I that intrigue me, but out of interest in which area can non-manager programmers make the best big bucks?

Again linkedin will help there - but I'd imagine finance. In which case a lot of programmers come from Physics, Maths backgrounds.

Surely the majority of those who come out the other side of a computer science degree can program?! Or perhaps you mean can program very well, although I would have thought anyone with said degree could.

You'd be shocked I tell you... shocked.
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html

conor.hogan.2

People who did a four year degree in Computer Applications can program? I would hope so.

A computer Science degree is not just programming.

amen

Surely the majority of those who come out the other side of a computer science degree can program?! Or perhaps you mean can program very well, although I would have thought anyone with said degree could

you would be surprised. A lot of people with Comp Sci/Apps etc can't program and even worse often don't understand basic computer concepts/ideas.

In which case a lot of programmers come from Physics, Maths backgrounds

Because you are thought to approach problems in a logical manner, breaking each bit down into logical components and solve each bit. Sounds very familiar to programming. These courses (Physics, Maths etc) also involve a lot of programming to provide solutions to complex physical problems that are similar in scope (or harder) than those found in Comp Sci degrees.

irishdude11

Anyone know how many math modules there are in the ucd/trinity courses?

fergalr

dusf wrote: »

Aware that nobody has a crystal ball here, I am wondering if anyone especially but not restricted to recruiters would be able to offer an opinion on which course is currently and speculatively in the future offering the best job prospects?

Don't worry too much about jobs, and especially don't worry about recruiters. 4 year degree; focus on fundamentals, and actually learning something about what you might want to spend the next 30/40 years at; the difference in jobs between one CS degree and another is much less important.

[/QUOTE]

irishdude11 wrote: »

Anyone know how many math modules there are in the ucd/trinity courses?

Not enough.

Sparks wrote: »

Yes, there's a single best choice that outshines all the others, it's <INSERT NAME OF COLLEGE COURSE DONE BY POSTER TEN YEARS AGO HERE>, and it's obviously far superior to the course in <INSERT NAME OF COLLEGE TRADITIONALLY BESMIRCHED FOR AMUSEMENT BY PARTICIPANTS IN POSTER'S COLLEGE COURSE>.

I did undergrad in TCD, doing PhD in UCD for last 2.5 years; its much of a muchness, it depends more on what you spend your time doing. I would do my undergrad in TCD again, there's lot to be said for a nice campus, and its in the center of town. I don't know how the TCD course has changed since I did it. I still believe (subjectively) it was the better course at the time.
Edit: Actually, just looking at the course syllabi again, maybe I'd go for UCD now, more math content, less hardware; hardware really isn't as important as it used to be.

Tbh, if I was starting as an undergrad these days, I might skip many of my college lectures, and watch the ones from stanford, MIT, and harvard, online instead. (This is not advice :-) )

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

I did Commerce in NUIG (unfortunately) so I'm unbiased but from the open-source projects I've come across and general *perceived* quality of coders, Trinity seems to have the best graduates.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

God, looking through the course there, if money and time wasn't an object, I'd love to go back and do the 4 year Trinity Computer Science, for the credibility and fun of it!

amen

for the credibility and fun of it

What ? tbh where you go to College to do your primary degree really makes no difference. I have yet to encounter any job/interview where it did. Although its been a long time since I graduated having a degree from college X/Y never made a difference to getting the job.

Its about the person and the grade.

IRL_Sinister

Last time I checked NCI offered a Computer Science course. (wasn't mentioned in the OP)

And from what I've heard of that it's one of the best because it's not based around theory too much -- there's a lot of hands-on experience which at the end of the day is what you need in the workplace.

On the other hand, Maynooth, from what I've heard, is the complete opposite with incredible amounts of theory involved with limited amounts of actual physical exercises and activities.

Webmonkey

IRL_Sinister wrote: »

Last time I checked NCI offered a Computer Science course. (wasn't mentioned in the OP)

And from what I've heard of that it's one of the best because it's not based around theory too much -- there's a lot of hands-on experience which at the end of the day is what you need in the workplace.

On the other hand, Maynooth, from what I've heard, is the complete opposite with incredible amounts of theory involved with limited amounts of actual physical exercises and activities.

They start doing practical scrum in 1st year :O - Most colleges (?) don't see that (and only in theory at that) until about 2/3rd year.

They play it all out, bring a customer in that wants a product, build backlogs, do sprints, stand ups, have scrum masters etc. The whole lot. Quite interesting style. They have group project and minimum lecture material. Mostly hands on.

COYW

Fad wrote: »

Know nothing about NUIM.

I studied in NUIM at undergraduate level and graduated in Comp Sci Hons 10 years ago. Within that class the standard of programming was really good. The standard in the general degree was poor though.

IRL_Sinister

Webmonkey wrote: »

They start doing practical scrum in 1st year :O - Most colleges (?) don't see that (and only in theory at that) until about 2/3rd year.

They play it all out, bring a customer in that wants a product, build backlogs, do sprints, stand ups, have scrum masters etc. The whole lot. Quite interesting style. They have group project and minimum lecture material. Mostly hands on.

Yeah that's the vibe I got too. Seems like a really reasonable route to take.

Webmonkey

IRL_Sinister wrote: »

Yeah that's the vibe I got too. Seems like a really reasonable route to take.

It has it's down sides as well though. One of which is they don't cover any memory management languages such as C, C++. It's purely Java/.NET. But then again that's what employers want out in industry these days.

Still though, I think it's important to learn at least one, C or C++ even at a basic level.

Anyways, don't want to take this off on a tangent any more, apologies OP

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

amen wrote: »

What ? tbh where you go to College to do your primary degree really makes no difference. I have yet to encounter any job/interview where it did. Although its been a long time since I graduated having a degree from college X/Y never made a difference to getting the job.

Its about the person and the grade.

I'm talking about the credibility of a computer science degree in general as opposed to my Commerce degree which any monkey can get!

And I don't want credibility for a job, I already have one, just credibility amongst 'peers'!

Giblet

Be good at your job.

amen

just credibility amongst 'peers'

well thats what open source projects, cpd and work is for.

Yeah that's the vibe I got too. Seems like a really reasonable route to take.

that's just teaching the flavour of the day. So if scrum falls out of favour what then ? What about all the companies who don't use scrum ?

If you want to learn the syntax of a language then get a book or do a programming course.

CS is meant to be about the theory of Computer Science and providing a good understanding of the principles and theories of computer science including how computers work at a low level (how the switches work, machine code, memory management etc) and also general concepts and ideas (travelling salesman, bubble sort, linked lists etc) and how to implement in a language.

Once you understand the concepts then learning the language .Net, Java, C etc takes time and patience.

Webmonkey

amen wrote: »

well thats what open source projects, cpd and work is for.




that's just teaching the flavour of the day. So if scrum falls out of favour what then ? What about all the companies who don't use scrum ?

If you want to learn the syntax of a language then get a book or do a programming course.

CS is meant to be about the theory of Computer Science and providing a good understanding of the principles and theories of computer science including how computers work at a low level (how the switches work, machine code, memory management etc) and also general concepts and ideas (travelling salesman, bubble sort, linked lists etc) and how to implement in a language.

Once you understand the concepts then learning the language .Net, Java, C etc takes time and patience.

It's important to add that this Scrum practice is just an addition to the Programming module. There are dedicated modules for learning other software engineering methodologies. It's just a plus.

Clanket

I'm in Year 1 of NCI's computer science course at night. The SCRUM thing was a bit daunting at first but am starting to get to grips with it. Have to say I'm really enjoying the whole course (except managerial foundations of information systems - total snoozefest). Would highly recommend the course.