Ex Rental Car - worth the risk ?

Barr

Hi All

I'm looking at 08 Ford C-Max's 2.0tdci Autos at present. There is only a handful on carzone.

They all said they have one Irish owners but when I googled the reg I was brought to at link for at €1.5 Million Car Fleet Auction which looks like it was run by Hertz :eek:

Here is an example of one of the cars I was looking at

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=813258422538470

Would I have anything to fear from an ex rental ?

The choice of car I'm after is quite limited and an ex rental may be my only route.

Thanks

colm_mcm

Take it as a given that it'll have had bodywork. Servicing may have been missed too.

bazz26

Advert says it only has 1 owner so I presume it has been on hire for the last 4 years. This would concern me, I've bought ex-rentals before but they were only 6 months old or so with little or no signs of abuse. 4 years as a rental being driven by possibly a few hundred different drivers could potentially put excessive wear on the car.

It's also not exactly cheap considering these similar ones are asking almost €1k less:
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1813280083191730
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=313195766267690

Barr

bazz26 wrote: »

Advert says it only has 1 owner so I presume it has been on hire for the last 4 years. This would concern me, I've bought ex-rentals before but they were only 6 months old or so with little or no signs of abuse. 4 years as a rental being driven by possibly a few hundred different drivers could potentially put excessive wear on the car.

It's also not exactly cheap considering these similar ones are asking almost €1k less:
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1813280083191730
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=313195766267690

Spotted them as well but they were also sold at the same fleet auction for Hertz

dingding

They may have been leased cars in which case there might have only have been a few drivers and it may have been serviced regularly.

colm_mcm

Auto would suggest tourist style hire car though

Barr

dingding wrote: »

They may have been leased cars in which case there might have only have been a few drivers and it may have been serviced regularly.

When I phoned one of the dealers he said it was ex lease. I thought no more of it till I googled the reg and was lead to the Hertz auction.

How would Hertz be involved with leasing cars - I thought it would just be rental ?

colm_mcm

They do leasing as well. Any salesman will use the term lease rather than hire though.

TrailerBob

The caveat here.. "the fastest car in the world is the rental car" will probably have been driven hard or poorly.

Barr

colm_mcm wrote: »

They do leasing as well. Any salesman will use the term lease rather than hire though.

Is there anyway of telling if they were lease or hire ?

4 years of hire would be very hard on a car I think.

colm_mcm

When I did toyotas, the only long term rentals I remember we're corolla automatics which were held on to for about 4 years.

Maybe ror could shed some light on this, but I'm not sure how you'd tell the difference to be honest. Evidence of where a'drive on left' sticker used to be stuck on might be a clue.

lomb

Cheap car though..
Subject to a test drive including
rolling the windows down and

listening to suspension noise

waiting for the engine to warm and then allowing it to rev unloaded at 3000, and then loaded at 5000 and listening for strange noises

feel the gearbox shifts including into reverse a couple of times

unusual wear and tear on upholstery and body etc

and listening for a quiet DMF It wouldnt worry me to buy one.

Its just a car at the end of the day, its either worn or it isnt.

jumbone

colm_mcm wrote: »

When I did toyotas, the only long term rentals I remember we're corolla automatics which were held on to for about 4 years.

Maybe ror could shed some light on this, but I'm not sure how you'd tell the difference to be honest. Evidence of where a'drive on left' sticker used to be stuck on might be a clue.

I thought that all rental cars (i.e. tourist rentals) would have been sold when they are a year or two old. Something to do with cars for rental not being subject to vrt until they are sold on.

Even if it isn't particularly relevant here could Colm or ROR describe that exact exemption as I'd like to learn more.

colm_mcm

Usually they get sold on as there was a ready supply of cars and dealers looking to make unit sales. I can't remember how the vrt thing worked tbh but I'm sure someone will remind us.

Don't know why certain companies held on to certain models longer, I'm sure they ad their reasons, still needing stock during quiet winter months being a possibility.

R.O.R

Auto rentals cost more to buy and aren't used as much, so tended to be kept longer on rental fleets.

If there are a good few of the same cars sold in the same auction it more than likely they were rental rather than lease. Could happen that a lease fleet would all have auto C-Max's, but highly unlikely.

If you can get a look at the Vlc it should tell you. Rental is Bolands, leasing is Archer Sheridan.

Damien360

Whether it is ex-rental or ex-fleet I would thread carefully. From my experience with fleet cars and talking to indy mechanics and other fleet drivers in my company, we would all avoid them.

The long held belief is that fleet cars are driven in to the ground by the company drivers. That is far from true as we all look after our cars in our company as they are our mobile offices. That would be very similar story to most I would meet on the road.

The problem lies with the leasing company. The attitude is, service as little as possible. Oil change is the most that will occur. No filters etc. Talk to an indy doing fleet cars and he will tell you how poorly they get serviced as it is price driven. I know of one car in particular and the indy was told to disable warnings on the car and get it back on the road. The simple reason for this is the car will develop problems long after the leasing company has sold it on.

On that basis, I would avoid fleet or rental cars like the plague.

Barr

R.O.R wrote: »

Auto rentals cost more to buy and aren't used as much, so tended to be kept longer on rental fleets.

If there are a good few of the same cars sold in the same auction it more than likely they were rental rather than lease. Could happen that a lease fleet would all have auto C-Max's, but highly unlikely.

If you can get a look at the Vlc it should tell you. Rental is Bolands, leasing is Archer Sheridan.

Mmmm very interesting post. All the signs seem to be pointing to hire

I was looking at a Kia Sportage Auto before the Ford and it had Bolands Wexford on the log book. I’m guessing this would have been a rental also.

I would have thought that Hertz would have been on the log book it they owned the car or is this wrong ?

DanWall

I have an ex fleet car for the last 2 year it had low mileage, I didn’t know until after I bought it, It has a full service history, I suspect one company owner, it does not use a drop of oil, never gave any problems, I know it had a door sprayed but not a problem

okiss

I would not buy a fleet car. Someone I know brought a fleet car for the right price or so it appeared. They then spent the guts of €1000 fixing it.
This car gave nothing but trouble. It broke down on a main road one day.
They were always spending money on this car and were glad to sell it.

colm_mcm

Normal cars break down too to be fair.

ninty9er

My mother has had over 5 years hassle free driving from her ex-hire Yaris.

The main concern I would have with an ex-hire is Americans abusing the clutch and gearbox, both of these issues are negated with the car you're looking at.

Hire companies place huge fines on bodywork damage, so I wouldn't be too concerned about that as it'll have been fixed.

Sounds to me like you want a brand new car at second hand prices, it doesn't exist.

btb

Hertz is Bolands Wexford as other barr stated

Bought 2 mpvs from them (bolands) in the past, 1 was ex fleet @ 3 years old, was an absolute heap of cr*p gave loads of small problems all related to poor maintenance. Also had loads of bodywork done that although done well, reflected in the value of it. Also reflected in the resale value when I moved it on (none).
Second bought ex rental @ 6 months got a better deal on it as pushed the salesman more. This also gave small niggly problems both in the remaining warranty and since. Still have this and will probably drive it into ground as its only way to get value from it.

Have also bought ex rental in UK, seem to be much better looked after, imo.

R.O.R

colm_mcm wrote: »

Usually they get sold on as there was a ready supply of cars and dealers looking to make unit sales. I can't remember how the vrt thing worked tbh but I'm sure someone will remind us.

Don't know why certain companies held on to certain models longer, I'm sure they ad their reasons, still needing stock during quiet winter months being a possibility.

The majority of hire cars were supplied on buybacks from dealers, with some form of VRT rebate (or offset - don't really know the ins and outs), during the busy summer season. They'd come on fleet around March and go back to dealers around September. Usually around 20,000km on the clock to make them retailable.

These were for short term only, and you weren't allowed to have the same car for more than 28 days (or possibly 30) or the VRT became payable, so some Rental companies also had a long term rental fleet where VRT was paid, and the cars were owned by the rental company. As there was a much larger capital outlay, the cars were kept longer and run to the sort of mileage you wouldn't expect on rental cars.

As there isn't much demand in Ireland for sh1t spec auto's, dealers didn't really want to supply them on a buyback, so that sort of thing was purchased outright by the rental companies and run until it paid for itself.

Thankfully, the rules changes last year and there is no VRT rebate system in place anymore - that means I can organise a long term rental for someone and end up with a 2011 / 2012 Insignia SE whereas beforehand it would have been an 07 Avensis 1.6!

Looking at the C-Max in the OP's link, it's hard to tell for definate, but they look like pressed metal plates, which for some reason go on to a lot of rental cars, but I don't know of one single Ford dealer who puts metal plates on to their cars.

With it being an auto, you don't have to worry that the clutch is knackered. Only have one Ford Powershift on fleet with the 2.0Tdci 110ps engine - in an 09 Focus. Currently at 146,000km and the service history is just service, tyres and tax, so it doesn't look like there are glaring issues with that engine/gearbox combo - but one vehicle is hardly a great sample group.

Barr

I checked the log book on one of them and its "Ryan Investments" as the owner - any idea who they would be ?

mytime

Barr wrote: »

I checked the log book on one of them and its "Ryan Investments" as the owner - any idea who they would be ?

That would be hertz rental

mytime

Barr wrote: »

I checked the log book on one of them and its "Ryan Investments" as the owner - any idea who they would be ?

That would be hertz rental

Barr

mytime wrote: »

That would be hertz rental

Not the answer I was hoping So they go by both the name Bolands Wexford and Ryan Investments.Good to know.

Oh well ....I don't think its worth the trip to Dublin to look at a car thats been 4 years rented out and probably the boll*cks driven off it

Bearcat

Yanks don't do stick shifts......gearboxes/clutches if not reconditioned expect to dodgy.

Ninap

Honest John, who knows his onions, likes ex rentals (provided properly maintained). Thinks the different driving styles are beneficial.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/7808878/Is-an-ex-rental-a-good-used-car-buy-Honest-John.html

Drummerboy08

Damien360 wrote: »

The problem lies with the leasing company. The attitude is, service as little as possible. Oil change is the most that will occur. No filters etc. Talk to an indy doing fleet cars and he will tell you how poorly they get serviced as it is price driven. I know of one car in particular and the indy was told to disable warnings on the car and get it back on the road. The simple reason for this is the car will develop problems long after the leasing company has sold it on.

On that basis, I would avoid fleet or rental cars like the plague.

I'd like to argue this.

Fleet cars are probably some of the best maintained cars on the road in Ireland at the minute. It makes no sense for a fleet company to poorly maintain a fleet car, because at the end of the day if something goes wrong it's usually down to the fleet company to put it right, and it's their car too.

In relation to your comments above, I don't know what fleet company you use, but they obviously offer a very poor service to their customers. It's bad practice, silly, and more importantly stupidly dangerous to carry out proceedures listed above.

okiss wrote: »

I would not buy a fleet car. Someone I know brought a fleet car for the right price or so it appeared. They then spent the guts of €1000 fixing it.
This car gave nothing but trouble. It broke down on a main road one day.
They were always spending money on this car and were glad to sell it.

Right, your friend bought a car, that broke down. It cost them alot of money, and gave lots of trouble.

But because it's a fleet car, and not a car owned by a private owner, that caused all the problems?

Right.

Drummerboy08

I'd like to argue this.

Fleet cars are probably some of the best maintained cars on the road in Ireland at the minute. It makes no sense for a fleet company to poorly maintain a fleet car, because at the end of the day if something goes wrong it's usually down to the fleet company to put it right, and it's their car too.

In relation to your comments above, I don't know what fleet company you use, but they obviously offer a very poor service to their customers. It's bad practice, silly, and more importantly stupidly dangerous to carry out proceedures listed above.

okiss wrote: »

I would not buy a fleet car. Someone I know brought a fleet car for the right price or so it appeared. They then spent the guts of €1000 fixing it.
This car gave nothing but trouble. It broke down on a main road one day.
They were always spending money on this car and were glad to sell it.

Right, your friend bought a car, that broke down. It cost them alot of money, and gave lots of trouble.

But because it's a fleet car, and not a car owned by a private owner, that caused all the problems?

Right.

Limbo123

Wouldn't buy an ex fleet car. Well, not the ones I've drove. The joy of driving a hertz vehicle or the likes is that you can thrash the bitch out of it and hand it back. Nobody respects a hire car like their own!

Damien360

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I'd like to argue this.

Fleet cars are probably some of the best maintained cars on the road in Ireland at the minute. It makes no sense for a fleet company to poorly maintain a fleet car, because at the end of the day if something goes wrong it's usually down to the fleet company to put it right, and it's their car too.

In relation to your comments above, I don't know what fleet company you use, but they obviously offer a very poor service to their customers. It's bad practice, silly, and more importantly stupidly dangerous to carry out proceedures listed above.



Right, your friend bought a car, that broke down. It cost them alot of money, and gave lots of trouble.

But because it's a fleet car, and not a car owned by a private owner, that caused all the problems?

Right.

I stand over my comments. I will not name them here unless a mod specifically says ok and I would doubt that. But, if you are in the trade, I can PM you the name.

Our fleet of insignia se estates costs 680 per month ex vat. That includes everything except insurance. An example of poor service was bald tyres at 30,000 kms and when the driver asked to change he was told they were not due to be changed until 40000 so the answer was no.
He changed anyway and charged the company.

The indy that was doing some work for them told me he was only allowed change the oil on a car (not an insignia in this case). He felt it needed more but permission was refused. To save his own reputation he stopped doing work for them.

The body is kept very well but god help anyone that gets a machine that got only oil changes. It will have a service history at the exact intervals recommended by the manaufacturer but not to the required standard.

Drummerboy08

Can you PM me the company in question?

Damien360

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Can you PM me the company in question?

pm sent