Skinny dog on Burns

Millem

Hi guys,
My three labs are all on Burns chicken and rice one is 33 kg (is a bit round), one is 26kg (is very small but has a lot of medical problems) and one is 30kg. Basically the one who is 30kg (8 years old) was at the eye vet last week and the vet nurse said she is underweight , now you can't see her ribs or anything! She said she could feel her ribs And something about lines on her head but said that it could be down to age also. She said she described her as "very lean" and recommended I upped her food as she said burns is low in kcals and hills would be a better option as it was higher in kcals! Anyway I am not moving to hills as I want to keep all dogs on same food and it doesn't agree with one of them (very stinky bottom when she was on it previously!) I am feeding the recommended amount for her weight 300g (even though she is speyed). The other dog is 26kg and I can't put any weight on her but we think this down to her medical problems even though I I have been putting meat in with her food. Has anyone else found this with Burns? I am thinking now of switching their food to acana as I have heard good reviews and it doesn't contain beet pulp. Or am I just being hypersensitive?

Outkast_IRE

Millem wrote: »

Hi guys,
My three labs are all on Burns chicken and rice one is 33 kg (is a bit round), one is 26kg (is very small but has a lot of medical problems) and one is 30kg. Basically the one who is 30kg (8 years old) was at the eye vet last week and the vet nurse said she is underweight , now you can't see her ribs or anything! She said she described her as "very lean" and recommended I upped her food as she said burns is low in kcals and hills would be a better option as it was higher in kcals! Anyway I am not moving to hills as I want to keep all dogs on same food and it doesn't agree with one of them (very stinky bottom when she was on it previously!) I am feeding the recommended amount for her weight 300g (even though she is speyed). The other dog is 26kg and I can't put any weight on her but we think this down to her medical problems even though I I have been putting meat in with her food. Has anyone else found this with Burns? I am thinking now of switching their food to acana as I have heard good reviews and it doesn't contain beet pulp. Or am I just being hypersensitive?

The dogs dont sound underweight, if your dogs were starving i would imagine they wouldnt be long leaving you know about it . Personally if they are doing well on the current food i would leave well alone and maybe consider getting some off cuts of meat etc at the buthchers and adding them more often to food.

Vet nurse is prob so used to seeing overweight dogs a normal weight one looks wrong to her

Millem

Well to be honest they are labs they are always hungry!! They would eat 15kg of food in one go if they could! If I have to add cuts of meat is it not defeating the point of having a 'good quality food'?

planetX

I've recently switched away from Burns, my dog was too skinny on it. I was feeding way over the recommended amount for his weight as well. Using the money I've saved to buy more fresh meat instead.

Outkast_IRE

Millem wrote: »

Well to be honest they are labs they are always hungry!! They would eat 15kg of food in one go if they could! If I have to add cuts of meat is it not defeating the point of having a 'good quality food'?

No not whatsoever, i also feed a high quality food and would supplement it with bits of meat off whatever im cooking 4 or 5 nights of the week .
Fresh meat will always be better than dry food for a dog, its just that for a lot of people they cant be buying bulk amounts of meats for dogs .

Millem

planetX wrote: »

I've recently switched away from Burns, my dog was too skinny on it. I was feeding way over the recommended amount for his weight as well. Using the money I've saved to buy more fresh meat instead.

PlanetX what food did you switch to?

Millem

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Millem wrote: »

Well to be honest they are labs they are always hungry!! They would eat 15kg of food in one go if they could! If I have to add cuts of meat is it not defeating the point of having a 'good quality food'?

No not whatsoever, i also feed a high quality food and would supplement it with bits of meat off whatever im cooking 4 or 5 nights of the week .
Fresh meat will always be better than dry food for a dog, its just that for a lot of people they cant be buying bulk amounts of meats for dogs .

Sorry I meant money wise is it not defeating the purpose, if I should supplement food anyway should I not buy a cheaper food e.g skinners and then supplement with meat. To be honest call me lazy but I just want to feed dry food and the odd tin of oily fish during the week! I have 3 labs so scraps wouldn't go too far!

planetX

Millem wrote: »

PlanetX what food did you switch to?

Switched to Clinivet as there was a good offer on it, and it seemed to have similar ingredients list, but more meat and less rice. It's only temporary though, still beyond my budget - I'm planning to go for cheaper dry food and lots more fresh meat/ fish/ eggs. My dog's a youngster though, it's unusual for an older dog to be underweight.

Millem

planetX wrote: »

Millem wrote: »

PlanetX what food did you switch to?

Switched to Clinivet as there was a good offer on it, and it seemed to have similar ingredients list, but more meat and less rice. It's only temporary though, still beyond my budget - I'm planning to go for cheaper dry food and lots more fresh meat/ fish/ eggs. My dog's a youngster though, it's unusual for an older dog to be underweight.

To be honest she is a rescue I have only had her 18months she was from a puppy farm and was continually bred from her last litter was 8 only one survived. She looks a lot older than her years and is quite saggy! She getting her second cataract done on friday and I will ask the vet about her weight. I thought it might be the burns!

planetX

Millem wrote: »

To be honest she is a rescue I have only had her 18months she was from a puppy farm and was continually bred from her last litter was 8 only one survived. She looks a lot older than her years and is quite saggy! She getting her second cataract done on friday and I will ask the vet about her weight. I thought it might be the burns!

Well done for saving her:) The vet will probably try to sell you Hills - maybe find a food with a higher protein content, or add it with extras. Be careful tho, my rescued momma cat went from starving and bony, to obese in a matter of months:o

lorebringer

When I had my guys on Burns, they all lost weight (even though I fed them the recommended amount) so I switched (which I do anyway, I never really stick to one food for very long). I have gone back to it every so often, but have only gone through 1 bag and then onto another food. The best way to get a bit of weight onto a dog is carbs; rice, spuds, pasta and such so if you are worried about your dog being a bit under weight, adding a bit of meat and carbs to her meals would do her no harm and would help with getting the weight on.

As far as I know, Burns "small bites" is higher in calories than the normal ones (Chicken & Rice etc.) so that is also worth a try if you want to keep her on the same brand of food.

Millem

lorebringer wrote: »

When I had my guys on Burns, they all lost weight (even though I fed them the recommended amount) so I switched (which I do anyway, I never really stick to one food for very long). I have gone back to it every so often, but have only gone through 1 bag and then onto another food. The best way to get a bit of weight onto a dog is carbs; rice, spuds, pasta and such so if you are worried about your dog being a bit under weight, adding a bit of meat and carbs to her meals would do her no harm and would help with getting the weight on.

As far as I know, Burns "small bites" is higher in calories than the normal ones (Chicken & Rice etc.) so that is also worth a try if you want to keep her on the same brand of food.

Could it be possible that she is a bit narrow at back from having loads of pups? From her head to half way down her back is quite broad and then it gets narrow. When we got her, her nipples and her belly actually touched the floor! And she was in very bad condition, she was 10 weeks after giving birth. Now her chest is back up but when you rub her belly you can feel loose skin. The eye vet loves Burns I was asking him before about Acana and orijen but he had never heard of them!

Cherry Blossom

If the dog has been continually bred from in a previous life it would be worth upping the nutrient value of her food imo. It would take a while for her to get better in condition, continually feeding pups takes an awful lot out of a bitch and if she wasn't on a great diet when all this was going on - even more so. My dog stuck at 6kg for a long time(1.5kg under the weight range for the breed). I'm not sure if food played a part in it or not though as she is still only 21months old and also seems to have changed shape (to more what Westies are supposed to look like) so she may just have had a final growth spurt and is now 7.2kg, this happened quite suddenly. She would have been fed Burns for most of her life but is on Barking Heads the last 5 months or so. She is still at the same level of fitness if that makes sense - has no more meat covering her bones than she always did but is just heavier.

If I were in your position I would probably try the dog on a 'junior' food designed for adolescents and switch over slowly to a 'senior' food (for golden oldies) once her system has recovered properly from her previous life. How old are the other dogs?

Millem

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

If the dog has been continually bred from in a previous life it would be worth upping the nutrient value of her food imo. It would take a while for her to get better in condition, continually feeding pups takes an awful lot out of a bitch and if she wasn't on a great diet when all this was going on - even more so. My dog stuck at 6kg for a long time(1.5kg under the weight range for the breed). I'm not sure if food played a part in it or not though as she is still only 21months old and also seems to have changed shape (to more what Westies are supposed to look like) so she may just have had a final growth spurt and is now 7.2kg, this happened quite suddenly. She would have been fed Burns for most of her life but is on Barking Heads the last 5 months or so. She is still at the same level of fitness if that makes sense - has no more meat covering her bones than she always did but is just heavier.

If I were in your position I would probably try the dog on a 'junior' food designed for adolescents and switch over slowly to a 'senior' food (for golden oldies) once her system has recovered properly from her previous life. How old are the other dogs?

Other dogs are 4 and 3. The oldie dog was in terrible condition and very run down when we got her she had never been feed properly or regularly before she came to us. She was at our normal vet in december for her kc vaccination and she said she was in probably the best condition we will get her in. The eye vet is not my usual vet by the way! Would Acana Be better for them?

Millem

Here are three pictures of her. do you reckon she is underweight?

Cedrus

Millem wrote: »

now you can't see her ribs or anything! She said she could feel her ribs

I always thought the rule of thumb for ideal weight was not being able to see the ribs but being able to feel them (short haired dogs obviously).

She looks good in the photos.

Millem

Thanks Cedrus, I thought that was the rule too! Maybe I am just over-reacting over vet nurse!

Cherry Blossom

She doesn't look underweight from the pics but it be hard to tell from pics sometimes, she is quite an odd shape though, I can't decide if her body is too long or her legs are too short, or just the angle of the camera or maybe its just her narrow back half that gives that appearance There isn't anything that can be done really that would change her basic shape, I'm not qualified in any sense of the word but I wonder if she took to swimming would that help with toning up her back half?

Millem

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

She doesn't look underweight from the pics but it be hard to tell from pics sometimes, she is quite an odd shape though, I can't decide if her body is too long or her legs are too short, or just the angle of the camera or maybe its just her narrow back half that gives that appearance There isn't anything that can be done really that would change her basic shape, I'm not qualified in any sense of the word but I wonder if she took to swimming would that help with toning up her back half?

I know what you mean about odd shape! Poor Ellie!! She goes swimming on beach once a week and prob 3 times during summer! Do you think her odd shape is from having pups?

Cherry Blossom

Millem wrote: »

I know what you mean about odd shape! Poor Ellie!! She goes swimming on beach once a week and prob 3 times during summer! Do you think her odd shape is from having pups?

My pony's underside looked like it had been though a food processor when I first got her, she looks a lot better now but it's still obvious she's had more than a few foals, she has an obvious 'waist' and a baby belly. I'd be reluctant to tell you that was definitely the cause though, saying that it's no harm really for an older lab to be light in weight in the back end though as there will be less pressure on the joints.

toadfly

I don't know if there is any need to try and put weight on. She doesn't look to be underweight.

Burns is 2/3 rice and it doesn't put weight on very well for most dogs. I'm feeding one of my yorkies way over the recommended for 2 years and he is only starting to fill out. He's about 7 now. It does depend on the dog though, my other Yorkie I only have to feed her a few pieces more a day and she has weight up significantly within a week. Both on the same food.

You could try giving some raw meat a few times a week see if that makes a difference?

boomerang

I'm convinced that Burns deliberately under-estimate the feeding guidelines, because it gives the impression the food is cheaper to feed per day. Don't they promise healthy weight-loss, too? Easy-peasy if you follow the feeding guidelines.

Burns is a great food but I'd be inclined to feed a bit more than the amount suggested for your dog's weight, unless you do want your dog to lose a bit of weight.

Both my dogs lost weight on Burns when I used to feed it a few years ago. I've put one of them on Burns Fish and Rice now partly because she needs to lose a pound or two!

toadfly

Ya have to agree boomerang. I wanted to try the two smallies on red mills leader or supreme but waiting on better offers on it in petworld!

Zapperzy

The recommended feeding amount for my dog on burns is 70-80g daily, on whites I think its about 150g. That is a pretty big difference considering they both have pretty similar ingredients. I'v also bought a bag of burns lamb & rice to get him to shift a few extra grams off him once the whites has run out. Only problem is he's back to being a fussy git because I'v been giving him raw stuff the odd few days, turns his nose up to a bowl of dog food and looks around to see where his quail spine or chicken legs are. :rolleyes:

lorebringer

OP - your dog doesn't look underweight and her weird shape is definitely from being over bred, all the "volume" is gone from her back end she has an over defined waist. I wouldn't worry too much about getting extra weight onto her, she may need to put up a kilo or two but that is very easy to achieve with a few extra bits in with her normal meals.

Someone mentioned Red Mills Leader - €10 off a 15kg bag in Maxizoo at the moment http://www.maxizoo.ie/offers.html?&no_cache=1

Millem

lorebringer wrote: »

OP - your dog doesn't look underweight and her weird shape is definitely from being over bred, all the "volume" is gone from her back end she has an over defined waist. I wouldn't worry too much about getting extra weight onto her, she may need to put up a kilo or two but that is very easy to achieve with a few extra bits in with her normal meals.

Someone mentioned Red Mills Leader - €10 off a 15kg bag in Maxizoo at the moment http://www.maxizoo.ie/offers.html?&no_cache=1

Just back from eye vet and he reckons her weight is perfect! He said that we are so used to seeing overweight dogs especially labs that sometimes people forget what a healthy weight looks like! He said you should be able to feel the ribs and not see them! So I think I will just stick with Burns! Did get lots of samples of remills leader and supreme but it has beet pulp in it which I am blaming for giving one of my dogs an ear infection (she has atopic dermatitis)!

Latatian

She looks in great shape!

And yes, labs you should be able to feel the ribs easily. I've been told that you should be able to see the outline of the last rib or two for a dog with joint problems, or a dog who's working.

I'd agree with your vet, people do tend to get worried about proper weight labs because most of them are overweight.

Beautiful dog, whatever you're doing with her it's working well. You'd never think she'd been in such poor condition. You must be very proud.

paultf

Just comparing the old photos with the new, she has filled out more and her coat has improved too.

She looks really well.

Millem

First two pics are before (on Burns) last two pics are after 3 months on skinners. Condition has improved!

teggers5

Beautiful dog. Well done on rescuing her!

Sigma Force

I stopped using Burns main reason was the cost, just couldn't afford it anymore after years of feeding it so it wasn't an easy choice to make. But I did find the dogs were on the lighter side and their anal glands tended to be full more often (let groomer do that stuff bleah).

They are on a much cheaper food now, with tinned fish, or bit of chicken or whatever a few times a week. Their doing just as well if not better on it, not as many problems with their glands either. Weight is better too. I am a fan of Burns and other higher quality foods but I do find some of the more expensive foods can be lacking as well. Each to their own I guess whatever works for your own pet.