Entering Law from an unrelated discipline

needacchelp

Hey guys,

I'm considering studying law with the hope of a career in international development. Problem is, at the moment I'm a couple years into study in an unrelated discipline.

I've been learning a bit and I DO have an interest in law. I'm also very strong academically.

I was originally thinking about a postgraduate degree in international development, which I could just about get into with a strong degree and relevant experience volunteering abroad, even if my degree isn't in the social sciences.

What I'm thinking now though, is that I'd prefer to focus on the law side of things because it interests me. Also, the Int Dev. courses do seem a bit too broad, and I think a masters in something like International Law or Human Rights Law could be the better choice.

My degree definitely won't get me into a decent Law Masters though. Would high marks in the FE1s be considered in the admissions process?

For example, on the page for NUIG's LLM in Human Rights Law they say they'll accept applicants from other disciplines who "can demonstrate other appropriate academic accomplishments"

Surely a first in a technical degree, plus a good set of FE1s and a decent bit of experience with an international charity would get me in? Or should I be looking at a diploma from griffith college?

Sorry for the long post! I really appreciate any contributions, even if you're just telling me who stupid I'm being!

Procrastastudy

Ireland and the UK are actually quite odd in allowing people to do Law at undergraduate level. Many countries see it as a post graduate course.

I don't know what the situation is with just sitting the FE1s or Kings Inns exams without having a law degree. I'm pretty sure you can as a mature student, but whether you should I don't know. Why not download the past papers off the Kings Inns website and have a look at them.

I don't think there'd be a problem with doing a masters in a law related subject as long as you don't want to practice afterward. Have to say I'm doing a Law degree here at GCD and loving it but it's whether you have three years to waste like me!

EDIT: Also bear in mind you pay for masters courses so the cynical might say that they'll take anyone who doesn't dribble during the interview.

blueythebear

needacchelp wrote: »

Hey guys,

I'm considering studying law with the hope of a career in international development. Problem is, at the moment I'm a couple years into study in an unrelated discipline.

I've been learning a bit and I DO have an interest in law. I'm also very strong academically.

I was originally thinking about a postgraduate degree in international development, which I could just about get into with a strong degree and relevant experience volunteering abroad, even if my degree isn't in the social sciences.

What I'm thinking now though, is that I'd prefer to focus on the law side of things because it interests me. Also, the Int Dev. courses do seem a bit too broad, and I think a masters in something like International Law or Human Rights Law could be the better choice.

My degree definitely won't get me into a decent Law Masters though. Would high marks in the FE1s be considered in the admissions process?

For example, on the page for NUIG's LLM in Human Rights Law they say they'll accept applicants from other disciplines who "can demonstrate other appropriate academic accomplishments"

Surely a first in a technical degree, plus a good set of FE1s and a decent bit of experience with an international charity would get me in? Or should I be looking at a diploma from griffith college?

Sorry for the long post! I really appreciate any contributions, even if you're just telling me who stupid I'm being!

If you have a degree you can sit the FE1s and the larger firms readily accept nonlaw graduates as long as you have at least a 2.1 degree. If you want to get into international development, with a first, you should be ok to get in to a relevant Masters I would have thought.

Be prepared for lots of voluntary work if that is the particular sector you wish to get into too...

needacchelp

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Ireland and the UK are actually quite odd in allowing people to do Law at undergraduate level. Many countries see it as a post graduate course.

Well I was planning on doing any postgrad study in England but i'll take a look at a few more countries. It'd help me improve my languages too

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I don't know what the situation is with just sitting the FE1s or Kings Inns exams without having a law degree. I'm pretty sure you can as a mature student, but whether you should I don't know. Why not download the past papers off the Kings Inns website and have a look at them.

As far as I know I can sit the FE1s with any degree, haven't seen any of the past papers yet but that's cause even though I have started a bit of study to see what I think of law, I'm probably not at a level yet where I'd gain much insight from viewing the papers.

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I don't think there'd be a problem with doing a masters in a law related subject as long as you don't want to practice afterward. Have to say I'm doing a Law degree here at GCD and loving it but it's whether you have three years to waste like me!

Yeah I'll probably never be a practicing solicitor/barrister. As for doing another degree, I guess I'd have the time, but the attraction of the FE1s is that I could study alongside other stuff, e.g. my current degree and whatever work i get after this. I'm on my own money now, not my parents'.

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

EDIT: Also bear in mind you pay for masters courses so the cynical might say that they'll take anyone who doesn't dribble during the interview.

haha I didn't think of it like that! I thought they were fairly competitive? The good ones surely are? Plus, with the recession now, it seems any and every graduate with the money for it is heading into postgraduate education rather than having to face the dole. I'm not one of them since I've kinda fallen into an area where my skills are in demand, and for some reason I want to screw everything up on myself and switch disciplines now...

needacchelp

blueythebear wrote: »

If you have a degree you can sit the FE1s and the larger firms readily accept nonlaw graduates as long as you have at least a 2.1 degree. If you want to get into international development, with a first, you should be ok to get in to a relevant Masters I would have thought.

Be prepared for lots of voluntary work if that is the particular sector you wish to get into too...

As in they accept them onto a training contract for qualification as a solicitor?
I know I could get into an Int Dev Masters but I was leaning more towards a Law specific masters, as the International Development courses look to be so broad that without any proper base in law or economics you're not going to be qualified for anything.

What I was wondering is whether high grades in the FE1s would carry enough weight that I could get into a good LLM without a law degree. Though of course maybe an LLM isn't what I should be aiming for at all.

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needacchelp wrote: »

blueythebear wrote: »

If you have a degree you can sit the FE1s and the larger firms readily accept nonlaw graduates as long as you have at least a 2.1 degree. If you want to get into international development, with a first, you should be ok to get in to a relevant Masters I would have thought.

Be prepared for lots of voluntary work if that is the particular sector you wish to get into too...

As in they accept them onto a training contract for qualification as a solicitor?
I know I could get into an Int Dev Masters but I was leaning more towards a Law specific masters, as the International Development courses look to be so broad that without any proper base in law or economics you're not going to be qualified for anything.

What I was wondering is whether high grades in the FE1s would carry enough weight that I could get into a good LLM without a law degree. Though of course maybe an LLM isn't what I should be aiming for at all.

From personal experience with entry to a UCD masters they are looking for high marks in the FE1s ie in the mid to high 60's, which is quite difficult to acheive in these exams with most people gaining marks in the 50's and that's with a law degree.

If UCD interests you contact Justine McCann in the law dept, she is extremely forthcoming and helpful.

blueythebear

needacchelp wrote: »

As in they accept them onto a training contract for qualification as a solicitor?
I know I could get into an Int Dev Masters but I was leaning more towards a Law specific masters, as the International Development courses look to be so broad that without any proper base in law or economics you're not going to be qualified for anything.

What I was wondering is whether high grades in the FE1s would carry enough weight that I could get into a good LLM without a law degree. Though of course maybe an LLM isn't what I should be aiming for at all.

Yeah sorry that's for a Training Contract. Can't be a solicitor without doing a Training Contract. I don't know why you want to do an LLM to be honest. Grades in FE1s to get into a Masters is pointless as most Colleges probably wouldn;t recognise good grades in the FE-1s (although you'd have to talk directly to colleges admissions section). The FE-1s are for one thing only, to enable you to get a training contract.

And I think that you are underestimating how difficult the FE-1s are. You don't just do them for fun to get into a Masters, that's pointless...

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blueythebear wrote: »

Yeah sorry that's for a Training Contract. Can't be a solicitor without doing a Training Contract. I don't know why you want to do an LLM to be honest. Grades in FE1s to get into a Masters is pointless as most Colleges probably wouldn;t recognise good grades in the FE-1s (although you'd have to talk directly to colleges admissions section). The FE-1s are for one thing only, to enable you to get a training contract.

And I think that you are underestimating how difficult the FE-1s are. You don't just do them for fun to get into a Masters, that's pointless...

I agree, it's very difficult to get good grades and colleges would consider 60% low when with regard to the FE1s it's quite high.
I have read posts on this forum from people with a 1st in a law degree who are struggling to pass the FE1s.

LawNerd2011

You'll get into an LL.M without the FE1's. My boyfriend read for the LL.M in Trinners a few years ago and there were several students in his year who hadn't studied law at Undergrad level, many of whom had 2.1s, so you've nothing to worry about. Stump up the cash and your in!

johnfás

LawNerd2011 wrote: »

You'll get into an LL.M without the FE1's. My boyfriend read for the LL.M in Trinners a few years ago and there were several students in his year who hadn't studied law at Undergrad level, many of whom had 2.1s, so you've nothing to worry about. Stump up the cash and your in!

+1 entrance to LLM at UCD, TCD and even at Oxbridge is getting easier and easier. It's a complete cash cow for the faculty so if you can pay the fees you'll get in. On the issue of training contract, yes the big firms take on non law graduates and plenty of them.

LawNerd2011

In England, it's nearly easier to get into the top law firms having NOT studied Law at Undergrad. I can see this phenomenon gathering momentum in Ireland as well. And quiet rightly so too I say. Some of the most successful people in the Irish legal profession studied history and economics etc. at Undergrad and this never stopped them pursuing legal successful careers. Re the LL.M this may provide some food for thought:

http://l2b.thelawyer.com/down-the-drain?/1010489.article

Procrastastudy

Guy from GCD at TCD doing his LLM there now - got a first from GCD but a 2.1 from an established uni should do it!

LawNerd2011

A 2.1 from GCD, Independent etc will secure you a place on the TCD LLM.

Procrastastudy

LawNerd2011 wrote: »

A 2.1 from GCD, Independent etc will secure you a place on the TCD LLM.

/sits back and stops trying so hard!

JCJCJC

You can sit the FE1s without a degree if you sit the preliminary examination and pass it. The FE1s are very tough exams, lots of people with good law degrees take a few attempts to get them all. There is absolutely no purpose to be served by doing them other than becoming a solicitor, they have no academic status. They may not even have FETAC/HETAC recognition. I agree with other posters here, you'll get on a LLM programme if you can pay the fee. Another option would be a post-graduate LLB, NUIG used to offer a two-year course leading to that degree one time, maybe hey still do. A class colleague of mine who graduated with a 3rd class hons LLB immediately did a LLM because she felt she would not get a job as a solr with a third, but would with a LLM. They had no bother accepting her on a taught LLM with 3rd class primary degree.

kickhamsking

Hi,
Just looking for some advice. I'm a final year Arts student and I see my future in Law, and I would hope to specialise in Corporate Law. I was thinking of doing the PgDip in DIT then doing my masters in law and international commerce or law and corporate governance in QUB. Would this be a good way of going about it? Also do I need to do the FE 1's to stand any cgance of getting a job?
Really confused and apologies if my questions are a little stupid but any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

JCJCJC

kickhamsking wrote: »

Hi,
Just looking for some advice. I'm a final year Arts student and I see my future in Law, and I would hope to specialise in Corporate Law. I was thinking of doing the PgDip in DIT then doing my masters in law and international commerce or law and corporate governance in QUB. Would this be a good way of going about it? Also do I need to do the FE 1's to stand any cgance of getting a job?
Really confused and apologies if my questions are a little stupid but any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

Quite a lot of questions there, and some contradictory things too. If you want to practise as a lawyer, why do a H.Dip - which is what I assume you meant by a PgDip? In any event, to practise law in Ireland you need to become either a solicitor or barrister as things currently stand. In order to become a solicitor, you will need to pass the FE1s, complete a training contract, and attend the professional practise courses in Blackhall Place. In order to become a barrister, you need to do a BL degree at the King's Inns, and complete a pupillage. Theoretically any primary degree entitles you to follow either career path - unless you avail of the law society's preliminary exam route - but a primary degree in law is obviously going to be more of a help in passing the entrance examinations. Post-grad law courses in non FE1-relevant subjects are a mixed blessing. On the positive side, a LLM certainly impresses an employer, and has been known to camouflage a weak primary degree. On the negative - in the time it will take you to do your LLM, your FE1-relevant knowledge from the early years of your primary degree starts to go a little stale...and it needs to be very fresh for the FE1s, I don't know about the King's Inns entrance exams.
You ought to read the websites of the Law Society and the Bar Council to decide which profession you would rather enter, and plan your studies and examination strategies from there.