Speed limit changes ??

Evil_Clown

New study proposed to alter speed limits around the country

SPEED limits are set to be slashed on rural roads across the country following a massive overhaul of the current system.

The Irish Independent has learned that every speed limit on every road will be scrutinised in a drive to reduce accidents and deaths.

The core aim is to improve road safety and to ensure that limits match the state of the roads. This follows a series of glaring inconsistencies between permitted limits and the conditions of roads.

Safety chiefs claim the road network -- especially in rural areas -- is "littered" with roads that have speed limits that are far too high, causing unnecessary accidents and deaths.

It is understood that many speed limits on rural roads are in line for reductions under the revamped system.

But those on modernised roads could also be revised upwards under the plan, which sources said was aimed at getting rid of "daft" limits.

The nationwide study has been ordered by Transport Minister Leo Varadkar. Most likely to be affected are rural roads that have limits of 80kmh.

The examination will be carried out by the National Roads Authority (NRA) and local councils.

However, speed limits are likely to be increased on routes such as well-lit dual carriageways.

And motorists will be asked to take part in the survey to give as broad a reflection of concerns and opinion as possible.

They will be able to contact local councils who control regional and local roads.

The NRA controls limits on national primary and secondary roads.

The plan is also aimed at reducing inconsistencies between different counties and regions, which can cause confusion for motorists.

The audit hopes to address:

- Speed limits such as 80kmh on boreens with grass growing up the middle.

- Speed limits that are too slow, such as 60kmh on a straight stretch of dual carriageway with two miles of clear visibility ahead.

- The wrong speed limit in the wrong place, such as an 80kmh sign at a dangerous corner on a country road.

- Stretches of road that don't have enough signs, leading to confusion among motorists about the speed they should be travelling at.

- Areas where there are too many speed signs, leading to confusion about the true speed limit.

Mr Varadkar says recent road safety measures like such as speed cameras and new drink-driving laws "have gone a long way towards improving road safety".

"However, we need to ensure that the right speed limits are in operation on the right roads," the Dublin West TD added.

"We all know of cases where speed limits are inappropriately low or inappropriately high.

"I understand that there is some confusion among drivers about the various speed limits which should and do apply, as well as the approach to speed-limit signage on national, regional and local roads.

Allegations

"There are also allegations that local authorities are not consistent in how they decide on the appropriate speed limit which has also contributed to driver confusion."

Conor Faughnan from AA Roadwatch said the national road network was "littered" with country boreens and roads with limits that were too high, mostly at 80kmh.

Local authorities have the power to set speed limits on certain roads, but if they do not use that power, the national default speed limit of 80kmh applies.

Mr Faughnan also highlighted the N4 Dublin-to-Sligo road, where the limit is 80kmh leaving or entering the capital, even though it is four-lanes wide on either side and has a concrete median in the middle.

Conditions

He said this was too slow, especially since motorists are coming off a 120kmh motorway.

"On that same N4 further west in Co Sligo, the road becomes a dangerous single-lane road with ditches on either side that are lined with white crosses erected by the locals to mark places where people have died -- and the speed limit is 100kmh," Mr Faughnan added.

"From the point of view of the ordinary motorist, how on earth are they supposed to treat limits with respect when the same national primary route has such spectacular contradictions as that on it?"

- Fiach Kelly

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/speed-limit-blitz-to-cut-carnage-on-our-roads-3012768.html

Maybe some common sense at last, but will await the actual results...

sean1141

i have lived in rural ireland all my life. i have never seen a speed trap/checkpoint ever. they can change all the speed limits they like but if they dont enforce them what is the point. they would be better off spending the money on repairing roads and making dangerous junctions/corners safer

si_guru

I agree with anything that improves safety.

But also agree that nobody will enforce whatever changes are made - so will safety be improved?

TwoShedsJackson

The road up to my mother-in-laws house is a boreen with grass up the middle, has two really dangerous blind bends, and has a speed limit of 80.

Realistically you shouldn't do more than 60 on the couple of straight stretches, down to 20ish for the bends, naturally this is ignored by most users of the road.

There has never been a speed check of any description on it, and there never will be, so lowering the limit isn't going to matter a damn. Improving driver education and safety will help, lowering the limit on an unpoliced rural road won't.

andyseadog

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

The road up to my mother-in-laws house is a boreen with grass up the middle, has two really dangerous blind bends, and has a speed limit of 80.

Realistically you shouldn't do more than 60 on the couple of straight stretches, down to 20ish for the bends, naturally this is ignored by most users of the road.

There has never been a speed check of any description on it, and there never will be, so lowering the limit isn't going to matter a damn. Improving driver education and safety will help, lowering the limit on an unpoliced rural road won't.

its a speed limit of 80, not a speed target. just becase the roads limit is 80 but it is clearly unsafe to do so then nobody has a gun to your head.

my girlfriend lives down a country road much the same, grass in the middle etc. limit of 80. i spend most of the drive doing 40/ 50, in some longer bigger spots you could hit 100 it should be discretionary, drive to the conditions. dont feel you have to hit the speed limit just because its there.

Seweryn

Evil_Clown wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/speed-limit-blitz-to-cut-carnage-on-our-roads-3012768.html

Slightly off-topic, but is there any proof reading procedure in the above paper? They can't even spell km/h properly :rolleyes:.

Stereomaniac

I think this is long overdue. It's been sheer laziness from a lot fo the local authorities I think, especially rural areas that have just been left off to their own devices.

Atomic Pineapple

Surely educating people on driving to the road conditions would be a better idea than changing a few signs?

While they're doing that they can educate people on how to adjust to weather and traffic conditions too, you know, just might be a good idea?

Then go back to the old system of having a national limit of 100km/h and people will have the awareness to drive to the conditions rather than blindly thinking they can drive at a speed according to a sign on that road.

Padraig Mor

speed limits that are far too high, causing unnecessary accidents and deaths.

Speed limits do not cause accidents; bad driving (of any speed) does.

CiniO

Is this all about something like that?

mb1725

The AA are surveying this topic (again) with a view to lobbying local and central government. http://blog.aaireland.ie/index.php/2012/02/08/uncategorized/help-us-sort-speed-limits-once-and-for-all

Their latest newsletter also has the survey running on the subject.

Paparazzo

If you drive at 80 on a boreen with grass on the middle of it, I doubt changing the number on a sign will change your driving habits.

Slippin Jimmy

It's pointless changing the speed limits on these types of roads. Nobody pays attention to them. There is a road that I used to use regularly and the speed limit on it was 60kmph. It is a safe enough road, there is one bad bend on it. You could easily do 80+ on it, and drop down to 50 for the bend. They always have speed checks on the road. Now I use a road that is in bits and I can do whatever speed I like on it because I know there won't be any speed traps. They are forcing people on to unsafe roads by reducing speed limits that shouldn't be.

TwoShedsJackson

andyseadog wrote: »

its a speed limit of 80, not a speed target. just becase the roads limit is 80 but it is clearly unsafe to do so then nobody has a gun to your head.

my girlfriend lives down a country road much the same, grass in the middle etc. limit of 80. i spend most of the drive doing 40/ 50, in some longer bigger spots you could hit 100 it should be discretionary, drive to the conditions. dont feel you have to hit the speed limit just because its there.

I'm well aware of that but my point is rather that the lack of enforcement means that people will continue to do unsafe speeds down it and similar roads.

Lowering the limit will make sod-all difference.

I've never done over 50 on any section of that road, but I constantly see and hear the locals doing 70/80 down it. The concept of 'driving to the conditions' doesn't enter most of these guys' heads.

challengemaster

Would be a good time to start implementing variable speed limit zones, eg. such as those near schools - monday - friday 8-4 have a 50km/h limit, all other times, 80km/h for example.

Leonard Hofstadter

Hopefully they will do something about the Quincentenary Bridge in Galway, this has a 50 kph limit which is absolutely ridiculous - these are two lane carraigeways ffs not narrow boreens! Parts of Bóthar na dTreabh also have limits of just 50 as well - which is absolutely mental. Most people do 80+ anyway, I even saw Garda cars overtaking people who were doing 80 on this road evne though the limit was 50:eek::D! They could also do something about the ring roads in Waterford - they also have ridiculously low speed limits.

I would also like to see them increase the speed limit on the N4 as you come into Sligo - there is a motorway standard Dual Carriageway for a good 10+ km with a limit of just 100 when it should be 120.

Chimaera

I wonder though, if people see limits appropriate to the standard of the road, and those limits are clearly posted, will people adjust their driving, even subconsciously?

If this audit actually places sensible limits on the roads, and is clearly advertised/described as such, it could have this sort of subliminal effect.

I'd also like to see an upward revision of the motorway limits, with weather dependent reductions but I don't think the NRA will invest in the gantry signage needed to implement such a system.

dgt

This isn't too far away from me... Seriously!!!

Vicxas

The roads leading to and from Navan had their limits slashed to 80kph.... and these are some of the straightest roads in ireland. Bloody Ridiculous, all to promote the use of their shiny new motorway.

Popoutman

The "speed kills" brigade are going to have a field day with the thought of reducing the speed limits everywhere. This is unfortunate and possible counter-productive.

For this update of limits to work properly, I think that the positioning of limits should be a lot closer to the area being 'protected'. For most small villages in Ireland this would require the separation of the Co.Council village edge demarcation from the speed limit.
If there is a speed limit for a bend or a crossroads, make it <10m from the actual start and end it <10m after the end, and advertise it 200m ahead. When speed limits are extended for up to a kilometer outside a village it makes it very difficult to respect the design decision that was taken there. If it doesn't make sense, it's probably wrong.

Given that the Gardai and the private camera vans now have plenty of survey data with percentages of cars in various speed brackets at various locations around the country - this data could now be used to see locations where enough drivers consider that the speed limits are too low for the locations. If (taking a rough number as a guess without having access to the survey data) ~25% of people are driving at above the currently posted limit that should be grounds for raising the limit at that point.

dgt

Vicxas wrote: »

The roads leading to and from Navan had their limits slashed to 80kph.... and these are some of the straightest roads in ireland. Bloody Ridiculous, all to promote the use of their shiny new motorway.

Looks like you know where that photo was taken so

Too true, how about the Kells to Ardee road, the N52? 80kmh in Meath, in Louth its 100kmh. Or Delvin to Athboy, same crack... I rarely use the M3 from Navan, always drive the old road. Cheaper and much shorter

There's more roads round here like that, are people going to stick to the limit on the Ratoath to Skryne road or the Sally to Slane for example?

Vicxas

dgt wrote: »

Looks like you know where that photo was taken so

Too true, how about the Kells to Ardee road, the N52? 80kmh in Meath, in Louth its 100kmh. Or Delvin to Athboy, same crack... I rarely use the M3 from Navan, always drive the old road. Cheaper and much shorter

There's more roads round here like that, are people going to stick to the limit on the Ratoath to Skryne road or the Sally to Slane for example?

Many a fun time on them roads

But the Slane - Drogheda road is the same, The minute you hit the border it drops from 100kph to 80kph, and the speed brigade sit their waiting to catch you :mad:

bigroad

I would like to see a minimum speed limit on motorways of 80km.To keep those road tractors off the motorway .

-Corkie-

bigroad wrote: »

I would like to see a minimum speed limit on motorways of 80km.To keep those road tractors off the motorway .

Aye and rise the limit to 150KPH..

Atomic Pineapple

Vicxas wrote: »

Many a fun time on them roads

But the Slane - Drogheda road is the same, The minute you hit the border it drops from 100kph to 80kph, and the speed brigade sit their waiting to catch you :mad:

Seems to be a Meath thing, the Kells road in Meath has excellent long straights and is limited to 80 while as soon as you hit Louth its smaller with lots of bends yet the limit is 100, crazy crazy stuff going on. Don't get me started about the 30 limit in Slane!

Chris_Heilong

I was hoping when I read the tread title that finally people realise that the 50km/h is too slow for a national speed limit and should be increased to 60km/h unless its a special area with a school then 50 is ok, but thats just me dreaming of a better world, I do agree that fixing up these roads should be a priority over thinking up revised speed limits.

Top Dog

The synic in me thinks this is just a way to find even more revenue from speed camera's. Much and all as I'd like to believe that safety and common sense are at the heart of it, I can't get past the notion that reducing 80 zones to 60 will only see the speed vans being deployed even more for the fish in a barrel revenue. Would be willing to bet that the ratio of limits reduced versus those increased will probably be something stupid like 90:10

Top Dog

Top Dog wrote: »

Would be willing to bet that the ratio of limits reduced versus those increased will probably be something stupid like 90:10

Well in fairness that wouldn't be that unexpected given that there are far more kilometres of back roads than there are main roads. For a country with a fairly low population density, Ireland has an unbelievably dense network of small rural roads (mostly due to the land being subdived into smaller and smaller farms prior to the great famine).

To be honest I think there was a lot to be said for the old system, where upon leaving a built up area you were presented with a white circle with a diagonal black band across it that basically meant- "speed limit no longer aplies; use your cop on".

I mean it's not like the government can decide a suitable limit for every little boreen and laneway in the country, and it's not like anyone pays attention even when they do.

Atomic Pineapple

Deleted User wrote: »

Well in fairness that wouldn't be that unexpected given that there are far more kilometres of back roads than there are main roads. For a country with a fairly low population density, Ireland has an unbelievably dense network of small rural roads (mostly due to the land being subdived into smaller and smaller farms prior to the great famine).

To be honest I think there was a lot to be said for the old system, where upon leaving a built up area you were presented with a white circle with a diagonal black band across it that basically meant- "speed limit no longer aplies; use your cop on".

I mean it's not like the government can decide a suitable limit for every little boreen and laneway in the country, and it's not like anyone pays attention even when they do.

Exactly the new system of having every road sign posted with a limited is a joke and along with the over use of targeting "speed" and enforcing it with cameras has dumbed down the drivers on our roads and while along with other factors road deaths have dropped, in the long term it can't be a good thing.

Top Dog

Deleted User wrote: »

Well in fairness that wouldn't be that unexpected given that there are far more kilometres of back roads than there are main roads.

Ah yes, I agree with you there. I guess the point I was trying to make is that I'll be very surprised to see any limits raised no matter how crazy they are (80 on a motorway for an example) but won't be the least bit surprised to see 100 zones lowered to 80 even though 100 is perfectly safe.

mcwhirter

Doesn't matter what speeds the signs state if it ain't policed properly.

opinion guy

dgt wrote: »

Looks like you know where that photo was taken so

Too true, how about the Kells to Ardee road, the N52? 80kmh in Meath, in Louth its 100kmh. Or Delvin to Athboy, same crack... I rarely use the M3 from Navan, always drive the old road. Cheaper and much shorter

There's more roads round here like that, are people going to stick to the limit on the Ratoath to Skryne road or the Sally to Slane for example?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the N52 needs to be motroway-ised. By a wide margain the most useful road int he country if you travel the roads alot. You can find yourself on the N52 everywhere from Ardee to Mullingar to Nenagh and it intersects almost all the major motorways except the M50.


Anyhow - they are selling this speed limit review idea as a way to cut the carnage on the roads. Wait a minute - weren't they saying a few months back road deaths were as low as they have ever been ? Call my cynical but isn't this just away for a government to look like they are proactively doing something good......whether its actually necessary or not ?

Evan La Crey

Aw finally! About time they're reviewing this. I always have converations giving out about the fact that the speed limits definitely need to change: downward on small country roads and upwards on larger roads the cities and towns on which the speed limit is ridiculously low, like 50km/h on the Stillorgan Dual-Carriageway and 60km/h the Finglas Road Dual Carriageway. Why so low? Is it just to catch people speeding who feel ripped off my a lower-than-necessary speed limit? That's what annoys me. I'm all for safety, if that's what it is about, but it doesn't seems so.