Permission question

paddyjj

I was out lamping last night on a permission and I got stopped my a guy when I was loading up my jeep ready to leave. He asked if I was lamping and I told him I was. He asked me not to lamp in that field as he has horses 2 fields away (200M-300M away) and that they get spooked by gun shots. At the time I didn't agree or disagree and he was fairly relaxed so it wasn't a tense confrontation.

Legally I am entitled to lamp the field I was in but I don't want to cause hassle and risk loosing a permission? In this case if I was reported to the guards for 'causing a disturbance to livestock' what would be the outcome? Not sure what to do. If we all didn't lamp permissions with livestock close to the fields we're in then we wouldn't have any place to lamp...:(

session savage

Best do as your told.. if he owns horses then he also owns the country :P (at least thats what the lads around here think)

If it was me and he ASKED me not to shoot I would try to focus on other permission. In fairness horses are stupid skittish. Fart loud enough and they panic.
However if he TOLD me not to shoot I would be sooo tempted to take the mod off....:cool:

landkeeper

well the other way to look at it would be would you like to be responsible for panicking one of the horses and maybe sending it through ditches hedges wire etc and maybe throwing a foal if it's carrying.
the main problem i see you have is that if you do shoot there now and there is an incident he did ask you not too and told you there were horses there
like it or not lamping is coming under the spotlight (forgive the pun) and not for the right reasons .

clivej

The trouble with horses is that they will run read stampead. With a gunshot at night they can and will run into ditches or wire fences or trip over. Many horses are worth millions of €€€€€.
He has a right to ask you not to shoot IMO, as I also have been asked not to shoot where horses are.

Cattle sheep are another breed and don't seem to mind the shooting.

If your the cause of the horses harming themselves then you will/could be held libel for your actions and effects. And as you have now been asked not to shoot where the horses are you cannot plead ignorance.

Just how i see it.

Glensman

It sounds fair enough from his perspective.
But lamping is an essential part of country-life...

I suppose you'll just have to find a balance and play it by ear...

sikastag

Im not being smart or "holier than thou" on this one but........

I generally avoid horses when shooting, especially at night whether Im told I not. Just what I do. Theres enough eejits out there allready...

Hunting is a huge part of my life, I dont want to jeopardize that.

That being said, kinda boils my blood in another sense. The more honest you are, and the more you play by the rules the more youll have to pay - either in money or some other form (Less permission etc...) Sad fact is, the bigger a C*NT you are these days in this country, the further you'll get. The lads that play by the book are getting shafted.

Rant over.

yessam

sikastag wrote: »

Im not being smart or "holier than thou" on this one but........

I generally avoid horses when shooting, especially at night whether Im told I not. Just what I do. Theres enough eejits out there allready...

Hunting is a huge part of my life, I dont want to jeopardize that.

That being said, kinda boils my blood in another sense. The more honest you are, and the more you play by the rules the more youll have to pay - either in money or some other form (Less permission etc...) Sad fact is, the bigger a C*NT you are these days in this country, the further you'll get. The lads that play by the book are getting shafted.

Rant over.

+1

fodda

If your the cause of the horses harming themselves then you will/could be held libel for your actions and effects. And as you have now been asked not to shoot where the horses are you cannot plead ignorance.

Just how i see it.

If anybody is going to annoy someone who has stock or lives in that area, then their permissions wont last long.

But on this point. Farmer has problem with say fox or crows and goes out to take care of the problem. In next field a horse gets spooked and runs into fences or escapes. Then does this mean that a farmer legally protecting his stock on his own land could get sued by some pet owner renting a piece of grass nearby for their horse?

paddyjj

Another point is if everyone stopped shooting permissions that were within a few hundred meters of fields containing horses how many permissions would be lost?

I know during Pheasant hunting a lot of our gun club lands are rough lands which are close to fields containing horses.

How many Coilte lets are close to rough ground containing horses. If you paid a ball of money for a Coilte let and then some farmer said hang on your shooting too close to horses what would you do? What is too close to horses, is it within ear shot?

Longranger

Just wondering, what type of firearm were you using? If it was a shotgun or unsuppressed rifle obviously it would be very loud,and more noticeable at night. If you are using a rifle with a mod,then it wouldn't be nearly as bad. Did the farmer who gave you permission ask you to do it as vermin control? If so, then I would ask him to explain the situation to his neighbour, telling that the noise won't be too severe as your firearm is moderated. But I would let them sort it out themselves.you don't want to make life more awkward than it already is.
Just my 2c.
LR

pheasntstalker

i wouldnt bother lamping or shooting near horses at all as a rule, but was asked to shoot some just before xmas:eek::eek: they belonged to a certain people and was offered money to do so!! i didnt just to clarify that, i advised to contact local co,council and local warden who is intent on remove these animals from land,reason i was asked was these horses were breaking in too this mans feilds and he was sick off complaning too authorties and nothing bein done about it,but in normal run of things i wouldnt shoot as i stated anywhere near horses,

paddyjj

Longranger wrote: »

Just wondering, what type of firearm were you using? If it was a shotgun or unsuppressed rifle obviously it would be very loud,and more noticeable at night. If you are using a rifle with a mod,then it wouldn't be nearly as bad. Did the farmer who gave you permission ask you to do it as vermin control? If so, then I would ask him to explain the situation to his neighbour, telling that the noise won't be too severe as your firearm is moderated. But I would let them sort it out themselves.you don't want to make life more awkward than it already is.
Just my 2c.
LR

Its a guy who has land bordering the GC land and there is some furze and heavy cover which always holds foxes. The foxes come out into the surrounding fields at night (which I have permission). I asked him for permission. He told me no problem. I also told him I wouldn't shoot the field when there was stock in them.

Gun is a moderated .223. No shots were fired last night. In fact no shots fired at that spot for 3 weeks. TBH I have not seen any horses near to the fields I was in. I wouldn't take a shot close to horses, permission or not.

iwsf

when the horses are in the field it is common sense not to shoot.
They won't be in that field 24/7 365 days a year so would go shooting there when the horses are elsewhere.

Constab2

Get the phone no of landowner & neighbor who owns the horses,a simple text to let them know you are lamping/shooting in that area at a given time.Keep them appraised & build up a rap ore with the neighbor in particular.It is best practice & heads off any problems for you or them down the road.I do this all the time with my permissions & it works well,have after a few texts been asked to shoot for the neighbors land both vermin & deer.Best to be patient with these things,produce insurance etc when getting neighbors phone no & start a dialogue .Most people are respectful & reasonable in these matters just takes getting to know who you are dealing with.Landowners will & have withdrawn permission at the first sign of grief so best to approach any problems with a lot of diplomacy .Best of luck with it.

pugw

The first thing I would do is drive by day and have a look at what condition the horses are in, you will know well bred valuable horses straight off, then see if there is any barbed wire bordering the field! Then go back to the man that gave you the permission and discuss the issue with him and see what he thinks! Ive had it happen that lads with horses kept on land they dont even own reading the right act about shooting in an area. :rolleyes:

garv123

Least he came up and asked you without trying to start any kind of argument.

Fella i know has farmers permission on a great spot for deer but doesnt shoot up there and its full off deer. Reason is is that the farmer next door has a lot of horses worth a lot of money in the fields beside it. Best thing is to keep the farmers on your side cos it could end up with you losing more permissions in that area.

paddyjj

Took a spin up there after work, as I honestly couldn't remember seeing any horses around - you notice things like that when out shooting. Anyway no horses in sight. Either yer man was being a kill joy or he's moved them off.....

Anyway I called in to the owner of the permission and told him what happened. His reply to me was "don't mind that *****, he's just anti-shooting!"

Either way its a permission I've lost.......Pisses me off to think that an anti has prevented me from shooting a valid permission by using horses (if they exist) as his excuse.

garv123

check for horses first then if they arent there shoot away if the farmer said dont mind him

kildare.17hmr

paddyjj wrote: »

Took a spin up there after work, as I honestly couldn't remember seeing any horses around - you notice things like that when out shooting. Anyway no horses in sight. Either yer man was being a kill joy or he's moved them off.....

Anyway I called in to the owner of the permission and told him what happened. His reply to me was "don't mind that *****, he's just anti-shooting!"

Either way its a permission I've lost.......Pisses me off to think that an anti has prevented me from shooting a valid permission by using horses (if they exist) as his excuse.

A reply like that from the farmer would be all id need to keep shooting away

robbie mars

You gone and seen your farmer who gave u ur permission and he has said its ok so belt away and feck the other fella that's my opinion

doctor evil

Why have you lost it OP? I read it as the farmer owned it and the imaginary horseman is a chancer.

If a horse is worth mega bucks it is normally kept on a stable...

cavan shooter

Good horses are fetching €100:rolleyes:

Just be discreet and observe common sense and you will be grand.

Yes you have permission, yes the farmer is behind you but if a horse panics and your shot caused it your in trouble.

They breed soft horses nowadays, lucky we dont need a cavalry charge too soon:)

sikastag

Sounds like you have the green light and if there is no horses then happy days. Just a suggestion. Might be worth getting in touch with the horse man. By the sounds of it he seems calm enough to be approachable. Call his bluff so to speak. If he does have horses and was able to tell you when they werent there then neither of ye would have any problems. Of course if he is anti shooting that is fine, his choice. But if hes anti-shooting, does not own horses or keep any near your permission and you are not straying onto his land I dont see the problem. Especially if you have permission from the farmer. That way you are at least making every possible effort to be accomodating towards him and it allows him to do the same for you.

terminator2

farmer x owns horses , farmer y owns sheep , farmer y has a problem with foxes and has given you the green light to shoot them ...............ide shoot away , if farmer x approached me ide tell him to ring farmer y ,

lee70

paddyjj wrote: »

Took a spin up there after work, as I honestly couldn't remember seeing any horses around - you notice things like that when out shooting. Anyway no horses in sight. Either yer man was being a kill joy or he's moved them off.....

Anyway I called in to the owner of the permission and told him what happened. His reply to me was "don't mind that *****, he's just anti-shooting!"

Either way its a permission I've lost.......Pisses me off to think that an anti has prevented me from shooting a valid permission by using horses (if they exist) as his excuse.

Next time your out there at night have a look where these horses are ment to be. If theres no sign off them then shoot away. When you've busted a fox tell the farmer I'd say he'd be delighted and if that other chancer turns up just point him in the direction off the farmers front door.
I have a few permissions that have horses and sometimes I shoot right next to where the horses are in there inclosure and they don't bat an eye.