Ecosystems gone wild

ScumLord

One thing often overlooked in apocalyptic scenarios is how the planets ecosystems would react to the near extinction of humans. We have a huge effect on the planet in many, many ways. We're on every single continent and have an effect on probably the majority of every ecosystem on the planet to boot.

If we where to take Chernobyl as an example earth would return to a idyllic wildlife reserve as animals move back into uninhabited human settlements, their short life spans unaffected by human health concerns like radiation poisoning and nature breaks apart all evidence of human activity with trees growing up through giant buildings, but it certainly won't be like that in Ireland with it's enclosed ecosystem making the influx of new animals near impossible.

But how would the dying species of humans effect the world on the way out? Will we fish the rivers and lakes to the bare bottom? Will our domestic animals go feral or simply die? Will the oceans return to normal or will the big fish that we hunt like cod go on a breeding and eating rampage unchecked because we accidentally killed their predators with our drag nets too? What will happen with weather pattern swings as the massive amount of carbon we pump into the atmosphere suddenly disappears?

Will the worlds ecosystems go back to a natural state of harmony or will there be chaotic, unforeseen mass extinctions throughout the planet while nature tries to find a new balance?

degrassinoel

I think its a fairly safe bet that domestic animals, driven by hunger would eventually turn feral. The younger ones especially.
Though I wouldnt expect that to happen until at least a month after a massive Z decimation of the human populace. And that is if zombies dont get a taste for exhausted animals, which they probably would.

Plantlife however would be rampant everywere. Trees, bushes, briars, weeds, grass ivy and moss. They could potentially be a survivors greatest natural ally too.

Bushes and briars create a natural boundry. Make loads of noise when something is trying to get through them, and they attract birds and small animals, that could in turn be caught/domesticated/farmed.. easier said than done training a badger or trying to milk one though xD

Birds are an excellent warning signal of any approaching predator and if max brooks has taught me anything.. animals flee at the nearest hint of a Z.

ScumLord

degrassinoel wrote: »

I think its a fairly safe bet that domestic animals, driven by hunger would eventually turn feral. The younger ones especially.

I'd wonder about cattle, they're very mollycoddled, they might not have what it takes to survive on their own any more. Connemara sheep will just carry on as normal and I'd expect them to spread throughout the island if they're unchecked.

And that is if zombies dont get a taste for exhausted animals, which they probably would.

As long as the animals aren't trapped by a horde I think they'll do ok, they should be able to rip through fencing and ditches once they need to.

Plantlife however would be rampant everywere. Trees, bushes, briars, weeds, grass ivy and moss. They could potentially be a survivors greatest natural ally too.

This could put a halt to a lot of other things growing.

Birds are an excellent warning signal of any approaching predator and if max brooks has taught me anything.. animals flee at the nearest hint of a Z.

Ireland has a huge international bird population but one bird we could see an end to is crows. You won't find crows living more than 5 miles away from a human population, they're completely dependant on us.

Peetrik

I would imagine we'd see a surge in deer also, fleet enough and skittish enough to evade Zach, agile enough not to be trapped by fences and then exausted like our more domesticated animals might.

ScumLord

Peetrik wrote: »

I would imagine we'd see a surge in deer also, fleet enough and skittish enough to evade Zach, agile enough not to be trapped by fences and then exausted like our more domesticated animals might.

Didn't think of them, outside of us and perhaps dogs they have nothing to stop them breeding out of control. They do need fairly open ground though, if scrub and briar's take over much of the open ground it could halt the spread of any large herbivores.

Kess73

ScumLord wrote: »

I'd wonder about cattle, they're very mollycoddled, they might not have what it takes to survive on their own any more. Connemara sheep will just carry on as normal and I'd expect them to spread throughout the island if they're unchecked.


As long as the animals aren't trapped by a horde I think they'll do ok, they should be able to rip through fencing and ditches once they need to.

This could put a halt to a lot of other things growing.

Ireland has a huge international bird population but one bird we could see an end to is crows. You won't find crows living more than 5 miles away from a human population, they're completely dependant on us.

Corvids are not completely dependant on humans. They use humans, but can survive quite well without them.

One of the main reasons that Ireland has a larger % of corvids than other european countries is a very simple one. Ireland does not have the populations of larger birds of prey that thrive in the UK and around Europe.

If Ireland did not have such a terrible record in terms of the larger birds of prey then those species would be around in larger numbers and the corvid population would be smaller than it is now.

Kess73

Peetrik wrote: »

I would imagine we'd see a surge in deer also, fleet enough and skittish enough to evade Zach, agile enough not to be trapped by fences and then exausted like our more domesticated animals might.

ScumLord wrote: »

Didn't think of them, outside of us and perhaps dogs they have nothing to stop them breeding out of control. They do need fairly open ground though, if scrub and briar's take over much of the open ground it could halt the spread of any large herbivores.

They are not a particularly fast breeders, and I would be pretty sure that the large packs of dogs that would form would be very interested in them.

The large packs of dogs forming would not be a maybe. There are already large packs of dumped/homeless/lost dogs that have banded together that can decimate sheep flocks and they tend to home in on sheep during breeding season, so I imagine they would do likewise to deer during breeding season, especially when there are more dog packs about.

Zomg Okay

ScumLord wrote: »

Ireland has a huge international bird population but one bird we could see an end to is crows. You won't find crows living more than 5 miles away from a human population, they're completely dependant on us.

I wouldn't think so. They're carrion birds, quite happy to scavenge dead flesh and there'll be plenty of that lying around. They might not be affected by the Zed virus and then they'll absolutely thrive. Even if the virus does kill them/turn them, there'll be a fair bit of non-deceased flesh about.

The crows will be fine, more's the pity.

Peetrik

Had to turn it off, (I realise this is the zombie forum so calling other peoples sanity into question is somewhat ironic but...) it's obviously written by christian religions 'enthusiasts'. I couldn't stomach it, religious indoctrination barely disguised as documentary

HavingCrack

Peetrik wrote: »

Had to turn it off, (I realise this is the zombie forum so calling other peoples sanity into question is somewhat ironic but...) it's obviously written by christian religions 'enthusiasts'. I couldn't stomach it, religious indoctrination barely disguised as documentary

What How? Christian indoctrination? Did we watch the same thing?

Peetrik

Possibly not...

I watched "Life After People, Episode 1: Wrath of God" There was a cross in every scene, evrey skyline was church steeples, every second location was a holy place it was pretty much about... the wrath of god. Had to turn it off

HavingCrack

Peetrik wrote: »

Possibly not...

I watched "Life After People, Episode 1: Wrath of God" There was a cross in every scene, evrey skyline was church steeples, every second location was a holy place it was pretty much about... the wrath of god. Had to turn it off

Hmmm, no that's definately not right-the one I watched was only a 2 part series and was made by BBC in co production with the History Channel-the link in my previous post is actually wrong.

I can't appear to find the name of it though..

Peetrik

HavingCrack wrote: »

Hmmm, no that's definately not right-the one

Ah ok I'll track it down so

ScumLord

Zomg Okay wrote: »

I wouldn't think so. They're carrion birds, quite happy to scavenge dead flesh and there'll be plenty of that lying around. They might not be affected by the Zed virus and then they'll absolutely thrive.

They've become completely dependant on us though, they're incredibly smart and I have no doubt they'll survive in some shape or form but like human populations they depend on the global economy producing abundance of food and hence waste food for them to support large numbers.

Peetrik wrote: »

Possibly not...

I watched "Life After People, Episode 1: Wrath of God" There was a cross in every scene, evrey skyline was church steeples, every second location was a holy place it was pretty much about... the wrath of god. Had to turn it off

I haven't come across a "wrath of god" episode but I didn't like the American ones on the History channel. It was originally a one off show in the UK (maybe there where 2 or 3 episodes) but then the Americans did their own version that dragged those 1 or 2 episodes out into a full series.

Kess73

ScumLord wrote: »

They've become completely dependant on us though, they're incredibly smart and I have no doubt they'll survive in some shape or form but like human populations they depend on the global economy producing abundance of food and hence waste food for them to support large numbers.

I haven't come across a "wrath of god" episode but I didn't like the American ones on the History channel. It was originally a one off show in the UK (maybe there where 2 or 3 episodes) but then the Americans did their own version that dragged those 1 or 2 episodes out into a full series.

They are not completely dependent on mankind at all. Far from it. They use man, but they thrive in areas where there are no people as well. As said earlier in the thread their numbers are unusually high in Ireland due to there being a lack of natural predators. Take man out of the equation and those predators would eventually increase in number and would eventually bring down the corvid population. In many other countries that have people, waste food etc., the corvid populations are not as great as here in Ireland, natural predation sees to that. Ireland has a poor record in terms of killing off large birds of prey, many other countries are not as bad at this.

But man being gone would not decimate their numbers. If anything I would expect them to have a bit of a boom in number for a few years after man was wiped out.

degrassinoel

wouldnt that bump the number of large predatory birds up too?

I'm just curious, because a lot of other species numbers could possibly be bolstered up with the decline of man in that case.

Kess73

degrassinoel wrote: »

wouldnt that bump the number of large predatory birds up too?

I'm just curious, because a lot of other species numbers could possibly be bolstered up with the decline of man in that case.

Eventually it would see nature strike a balance between predators and prey, but as Ireland had pretty much it's entire large bird of prey population wiped out through ignorance, and still is having many of the small number or re-introduced birds wiped out, it would take some time for the remaining numbers of surving re-introduced birds of prey to build up their numbers once man was gone.

Even without man the birds of prey would only grow in such numbers that could be supported by the prey species.

Doc Ruby

ScumLord wrote: »

This could put a halt to a lot of other things growing.

Only for a while, it starts out with mosses, then grasses and brambles, then bushes and finally trees, the larger plants cut off the light to the pioneer species.

To look at a real life example, in New England farmers moved westwards after wiping out most of the forests there, and it took 150 years for the forest to repopulate the area. Left to its own devices, in the same timespan Ireland would return entirely to virgin forest.

It would probably take 30 years to notice any real significant spread of the forests though so in the meantime keep an eye on the ghost estates to find out what happens.

RiderOnTheStorm

i cant remember what the show was, but there was a pseudo documentary on BBC (?) a year or two ago, about what would happen to the planet if all humans suddenly disappeared. There was mention of sim show in prev posts, but not sure if its the same one.

What I do remember about the show was time-lapse type shots of trees growing up thru motorways. The show maintained that nature would reclaim even the most hardend structures in time.... and not a very long time either.

I guess, for the survivors, the first generation wont have to worry too much about it. But later generations (2nd 3rd?) will have to contend with disappearing roads, cities falling down, and bridges collapsing. Traveling around 50 years after will be a big problem. We might have to resort to 4x4 for everyday trips (unlike Mad Max & Fallout scenarios where roads are still avail, even if badly damaged). With trees, bogs and brambles growing wild, it will not only be hard to travel, but hard to keep enough land clear to grow stuff.

As for wildlife. We dont have many preditors in island Ireland. But the few we do have will thrive for a while. Packs of dogs and cats. That thing in Cavan that might be a panther will have no opposition. Mink, badgers, fox, etc. What about the Zoos? If bears and wolves got out (just 1 breading pair of each) then we could be in trouble. We will have to adopt some US frontiersman skills & defence. The good news (small!) is that we will only have to contend with whatever animals we currently have on the island. There wont be any migration from other countries (apart from birds!). But when you think that Fota wildlife park has cheetahs and Dub zoo has buffallo, then we might be facing more than the odd pack of feral dogs (which is bad enough considering the size of some of them!)

Other good news, is no more quotas on fishing stocks, sheep, potatoes, etc. If you can grow it / catch it, then its yours !

jameverywhere

I imagine that the animals in the zoos would simply end up trapped and starve to death. Unless I guess some misguided ecotarian went about setting them free?

RiderOnTheStorm

I get ya, and I dont advocate letting them free. But there would be pros and cons to setting (for eg) wolfs free. They were native to this country and human population removed them from the eco life cycle. In any (human-free) nature scenario the predator has his place. It keeps the lower animals numbers in check, and one predator is anothers food. They all have a place. A wolf pack would keep deer / cow / badger populations down by picking off the weak, sick, young & old. Leaving the wild grazing for the fit and thus increasing the yield for the few hunter gatherers left.

The down side, is do we want wolf packs picking off our newly domesticated cows / sheep / goats / pigs etc. I dont think the wolf pack would be a problem for humans, as they tend to stay clear of humans. But who knows what will happen when you introduce a predator to a life cycle that he has been out of your generations, and then introduce a massive unknown element like Zombies.

Would the animals try and escape the Zoo once feeding stops and they get desperate? That might be the real issue.

ScumLord

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

The down side, is do we want wolf packs picking off our newly domesticated cows / sheep / goats / pigs etc. I dont think the wolf pack would be a problem for humans, as they tend to stay clear of humans.

Humans are noisy and god like, without electricity they might not be as afraid. I'd also guess the first few wolf packs could get quite large, 30 or 40 strong wolf packs could be a real problem for people.

Would the animals try and escape the Zoo once feeding stops and they get desperate? That might be the real issue.

The big cats might stand a chance if their cage has no roof. There are examples of lions climbing over fences when people annoy them. The animals are manageable when they know they will be feed but if they get hungry they can do untold damage, even the wolf enclosure at Dublin zoo wasn't all that substantial last time I saw it (which was years ago).

RiderOnTheStorm

ScumLord wrote: »

The big cats might stand a chance if their cage has no roof. There are examples of lions climbing over fences when people annoy them. The animals are manageable when they know they will be feed....

Yup, thats what I was afraid of.

I wonder what Ireland would look like with a few elephants and hippos roaming around the turf bogs....... crocadiles in the Shannon..... snakes & scorpions among the spuds.... etc

jameverywhere

I still think most of the animals would die in their enclosures.

Also, are there any wolf "packs" in the zoo? I haven't been, but surely they only have a few specimens? It does take a long time for breeding to happen, and it would be a lot of inbreeding and probably stuff would conspire to wipe these guys out, not to mention most of them probably have no experience hunting in the wild and are probably a bit too complacent...

ScumLord

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

Yup, thats what I was afraid of.

I wonder what Ireland would look like with a few elephants and hippos roaming around the turf bogs....... crocadiles in the Shannon..... snakes & scorpions among the spuds.... etc

Most of those couldn't survive Irish weather. Any hairless animal will die in our winters even though they are mild for the most part. Hairy animals stand a better chance, Lions already roam, or at least did for a period, some abandoned safari park in the west of Ireland. I think their coats even began changing colour to better suit their environment.

Wolves can walk out of the zoo and will instantly be at the top of the food chain. Smaller rodents could go on a breeding spree.

ScumLord

jameverywhere wrote: »

Also, are there any wolf "packs" in the zoo? I haven't been, but surely they only have a few specimens? It does take a long time for breeding to happen, and it would be a lot of inbreeding and probably stuff would conspire to wipe these guys out, not to mention most of them probably have no experience hunting in the wild and are probably a bit too complacent...

Hunting is instinctive for these animals, while they wouldn't be as good as their wild cousins they could make short work of any people they run into, dogs might be stupid enough to try standing their ground with the wolves. If they can get into a field they'd make short work of any sheep. Race horses would probably die of shock if cornered by a wolf.

Doc Ruby

ScumLord wrote: »

Humans are noisy and god like, without electricity they might not be as afraid. I'd also guess the first few wolf packs could get quite large, 30 or 40 strong wolf packs could be a real problem for people.

Nah wolves won't bother people. Bears on the other hand... well lets just hope there aren't any circuses going around.