Cheap Build - To learn techy stuff like Linux and Programming

Buceph

I was wondering what a good cheap build would be? The whole point of this build would be to put Linux on it, and learn my way around that OS, as well as other techy stuff like programming, maybe a local AMP stack for web stuff. As well as something I could boot up and have no distractions on it, so no games or videos, just a bit of music, the techy tools and the internet (I know the internet is the biggest distraction, but I can't see how I learn stuff without using it.)

I last built a PC about a year and half/two years ago, but it was a high-end (non-OC'ed) gaming build. I have no idea about the hardware comaptibilities with Linux builds, and I have no idea about the economising cheaper technologies (it's easy enough to buy the high-end stuff.)

I have about €350 to spend for everything in the box and I'd hope to get a KVM switch with another €50 (Are there KVM switches that include audio?) At least I have the money this week. If there was an compelling reason to save up a bit more I could wait. Although hopefully, I'll be starting some tech-courses in the next week or two, so having this up and running at the time would be nice.

deconduo

Something like this maybe:

Item|Price
Total build cost: €233.06 + €30 shipping
Intel Celeron G530 Box, LGA1155|€36.62
OCZ Vertex Plus 60GB SSD SATA 6,4cm (2,5")|€61.94
4GB Patriot AMD Entertainment Edition PC3-12800 1600MHz|€18.24
ASRock H61M-ITX, Sockel 1155, ITX|€64.25
Thermaltake Element Q, mini-ITX, 200W-Netzteil|€52.01


Its a nice small box and should run fine. If you want a bit more power, switch the CPU to this:
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=41221&agid=1617

Buceph

That's a lot less than I expected I'd have to spend.

A couple of questions:
Would the draw on the PSU really be less than 200w? Even with the upgrade to the i3?
Do I need a Linux OS to prepare a USB for an OS install?
Would there be any point in a graphics card? I can't think of one myself, but I don't know what's possible with Linux or where I'd use it.
Is there anything to look out for when getting a KVM switch?
Are SSDs stable at this point? I had huge problems with the one I got two years ago, with a couple of them dying on me (although it was a relatively cheap one back then.)

Unregistered.

Buceph wrote: »

Would the draw on the PSU really be less than 200w? Even with the upgrade to the i3?

Aye.

Buceph wrote: »

Do I need a Linux OS to prepare a USB for an OS install?

Nope. Google "unetbootin".

Buceph wrote: »

Would there be any point in a graphics card?

Not really. I think the graphics cores in the new Intel chips are decent when it comes to video decoding, and UI acceleration etc.

Buceph wrote: »

Is there anything to look out for when getting a KVM switch?

Not if you know your KVM switches.

Buceph wrote: »

Are SSDs stable at this point? I had huge problems with the one I got two years ago, with a couple of them dying on me (although it was a relatively cheap one back then.)

I'd have gone for a 500GB hard disk for 70 quid instead of the SSD. That's an old(ish) Vertex, of the same generation when you had yours IIRC.

Fluffy88

You need a PC to prepare a bootable USB, you can do it from any and all OS's.
Graphics cards don't always play nice with Linux so in reality you would probably be better off without one. And for the tasks you mention there is no need for a dedicated GPU.
SSD's are more stable now than they were two years ago, but they still like to jump off cliffs now and then. I would still recommend you getting one, Ubuntu is like Superman on an SSD

Would you not consider just doing a dual boot on your current machine for Linux?
There is no need to spend that much money on a new PC for just learning Linux and programming considering you can do all that or free using the hardware you already have.

deconduo

Buceph wrote: »

Are SSDs stable at this point? I had huge problems with the one I got two years ago, with a couple of them dying on me (although it was a relatively cheap one back then.)

Its an Indilinx drive rather than a Sandforce which is the one that fails a lot :pac: Its not the fastest but its a lot faster than a mechanical drive. If space is important I would go for a 500GB Spinpoint F3 though.

Buceph

Fluffy88 wrote: »

Would you not consider just doing a dual boot on your current machine for Linux?
There is no need to spend that much money on a new PC for just learning Linux and programming considering you can do all that or free using the hardware you already have.

I've already tried the dual boot route. Whatever way I ****ed it up, I ****ed it up good. Everytime I went from Linux to the Windows install, Windows would hang on the loading screen. And that was following the "correct" procedure of having Windows already installed and being the primary OS, putting the Linux install on a separate hard drive. Then after I removed the Linux HDD, Windows wouldn't boot at all (problems with the boot manager.) And I've tried fixing that a couple of times, but it's still slightly ****ed up (I need to have the Windows disc in the drive to get it to load.) I could probably fix it all by doing a Dell on it and actually reinstalling the entire OS, but I have a lot of data I don't want to lose (I will be getting a big enough HDD for backing it all up.) But it really scared (to exagerate) me, that messing around with my only PC could leave me in a bad situation. So it would be nice to have something I'm not relying on and can play with without relatively serious consequences.

Edit: Also, someone mentioned to me the idea of having this setup in a dual capacity as a file server, which would be nice should I get something hooked up to the TVs in the house. (I'm hoping I learn enough with this that I can use Raspberry Pi for such a thing.)
Second edit: And yeah, the first time I booted from an SSD it was like I had indulged in some illicit substances, I was just burned by getting tech too early, and choosing something not too stable.

zom

Did you consider going into virtual machine with linux on it?

shayno90

Buceph wrote: »

I've already tried the dual boot route. Whatever way I ****ed it up, I ****ed it up good. Everytime I went from Linux to the Windows install, Windows would hang on the loading screen. And that was following the "correct" procedure of having Windows already installed and being the primary OS, putting the Linux install on a separate hard drive. Then after I removed the Linux HDD, Windows wouldn't boot at all (problems with the boot manager.) And I've tried fixing that a couple of times, but it's still slightly ****ed up (I need to have the Windows disc in the drive to get it to load.) I could probably fix it all by doing a Dell on it and actually reinstalling the entire OS, but I have a lot of data I don't want to lose (I will be getting a big enough HDD for backing it all up.) But it really scared (to exagerate) me, that messing around with my only PC could leave me in a bad situation. So it would be nice to have something I'm not relying on and can play with without relatively serious consequences.

Edit: Also, someone mentioned to me the idea of having this setup in a dual capacity as a file server, which would be nice should I get something hooked up to the TVs in the house. (I'm hoping I learn enough with this that I can use Raspberry Pi for such a thing.)
Second edit: And yeah, the first time I booted from an SSD it was like I had indulged in some illicit substances, I was just burned by getting tech too early, and choosing something not too stable.

Sounds to me like you have setup the Linux GRUB to install on the wrong mount point i.e. that it should boot from the top mount point such as "sda" and not "sda1/2/3" the sub sectors of the entire volume. For Windows you should have 2 NTFS sectors, one the for the C:\ drive and other for \ backup and for Linux 2 sectors, one for ext4 and the other for the swap. Usually best to install Ubuntu after Windows and resize the partitions using Windows partition manager to avoid corrupting the boot sector. If you wish to continue dual booting let me know.

Unregistered.

When I do a clean install for dual booting, I create/format the partitions first with GParted then install Windows and Linux. It's usually a lot quicker in my experience.

shayno90

Unregistered. wrote: »

When I do a clean install for dual booting, I create/format the partitions first with GParted then install Windows and Linux. It's usually a lot quicker in my experience.

(I refer to dual booting with an existing installed windows OS) Depends if it is a new clean install of Windows with Ubuntu installed just after hence it quicker however using GParted to resize partitions on long running windows system can take hours to resize plus it can potentially mess up the existing NTFS partitions due to windows service pack updates for example. So I prefer to not risk it and use Windows partition manager to resize the NTFS partitions.

Fluffy88

From what you said I would think what shayno90 said is what's causing your problems.
You probably installed the bootloader to the wrong partition.

Installing Ubuntu is really a simple process these days, the selection of partitions is the hardest part but with a small bit of direction you will have no problems getting it all up and working correctly, if that's what you want
Also you can fix the problems your having with booting into Windows if you get Grub installed again. Let us know here or even in the Unix forum if you need some help doing this.

Now I know sometimes we produce reasons like this to justify buying new stuff, so if you do really want to build a new PC then hey ignore us and go ahead and buy a dedicated Unix machine and like you say then it can be used for other things like media centres, file servers or small personal websites.

Buceph

Fluffy88 wrote: »

Now I know sometimes we produce reasons like this to justify buying new stuff

I think that's a big part of it as well. I just don't know if a new (clicky) keyboard would give me the same satisfaction as a new computer.



And yeah, I'll take a look at the Unix forums about sorting out Grub.

Buceph

I put an order in with Hardwareversand just after posting the post above this. I used paypal to pay. I received an e-mail saying my payment has been processed. However, I logged into the site to see if the parts had been dispatched, etc. and the transaction log was a bit strange...

To paraphrase:
Order placed: 02:00
Order Cancelled: 06:00
Payment Received: 06:00

And it was in that order. Anyone have this happen to them with Hardwareversand before?

thenightrider

What i would do is use the money to upgrade the pc you have and dual boot linux and maybe set up an other user profile with noting installed on your window's OS and just have your programming software on that.

Buceph

Cheers for the recommendations. I got the components mentioned this morning and put it together no bother. One concern is that the PSU is sitting right on top of one third of the processor's fan, and there's little space to route the cables well. I'll keep an eye on it though and I guess it goes hand in hand with the small form factor.

The only other thing is I'm not sure if this will support dual monitors. I have something going into the VGA port now, but nothing into the DVI. I only had DVI-I connections (never bothered to get a DVI-D for my monitor.) I'm getting the DVI-D cable tonight and hopefully the motherboard will support running one monitor off the VGA and one off the DVI. If not, it's not the end of the world.