ICG Helipcopter Door/Winch Operator

Muppet Man · 07-02-2012 2:02pm #1

Settle an argument please...

Can the winch operator/door man of any of the Irish Coast Guard helicopters control the flight / direction / height of the helicopter for say... adjusting the helicopter 2 feet left/right/up/down (sorry for the lack of terminology).

Someone here reckons that they saw a TV program of 117 being "contolled" via a joystick by the winch operator looking out the door to get the helicopter into proper position above an incident.

I say cobblers myself

Muppet Man.

Aerohead · 07-02-2012 2:12pm

Yes they are correct, the winch operator has a small joystick which the pilot hands over control of the helicopter to him, as far as I know this is when the pilot has no visual contact with a casualty, the winch operator can move the helicopter in different directions etc as he requires.

Mr Simpson · 07-02-2012 2:19pm

I call BS on this, the pilot is the only one legally qualified to control the aircraft, the winch operator is not.

tricky D · 07-02-2012 2:23pm

Winchman trim unit is one name.

more: http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/475290-winchman-trim-not.html

savagecabbages · 07-02-2012 2:26pm

There is such a joystick controlled autopilot facility available on the S-61N, but whether or not the IRCG ones use this I don't know. I did see a joystick by the winching door on one a while back, but didn't ask if this was for winch control or airframe control.

I don't think they do, as whenever I see footage from inside the cockpits, the winch operator is usually instructing the pilots over the radio as to where he wants the helicopter to move. Or maybe he is announcing what he is doing with the aircraft??

EDIT: Bit slow typing there. the guys have it answered!

Mr Simpson · 07-02-2012 2:27pm

It appears I have been proved wrong on this, i'm actually shocked they can hand over control of the aircraft to a winchman.

Aerohead · 07-02-2012 2:44pm

mmcn90 wrote: »

It appears I have been proved wrong on this, i'm actually shocked they can hand over control of the aircraft to a winchman.

How would you be shocked its what they do and train for, the winch operator is well trained to do this, I was at Salthill Air Show a few years ago when there was one on the ground and they explained how it operated allowing the winch operator to maintain contact with the winch man and move the helicopter as required. I am sure there is someone on boards who knows more than me on this.

Mr Simpson · 07-02-2012 3:04pm

The reason I'm shocked is, as well trained as they are, I assume they don't hold a CPL or even PPL. Maybe they only gain a small level of control, I don't know.

Madpaddy79 · 07-02-2012 3:54pm

mmcn90 wrote: »

The reason I'm shocked is, as well trained as they are, I assume they don't hold a CPL or even PPL. Maybe they only gain a small level of control, I don't know.

Cplh and atplh theory. Plus paramedic liecence.

Muppet Man · 07-02-2012 4:05pm

Thanks Chaps - I lost that argument

But great to know anyway. My respect for those folk in the ICG has been raised even further!!!

Thanks Again
Muppet Man

Klunk001 · 07-02-2012 5:02pm

The winch op can make small adjustments both in the lateral and longditude axis using a joystick in the back, this is operated as a sub mode of the autopilot system in the cockpit, also with the handling pilot close by the flight controls if required. The hover height is set and adjusted by the pilots, that cannot be adjusted from the winch op station.

marketty · 07-02-2012 9:29pm

Klunk001 wrote: »

The winch op can make small adjustments both in the lateral and longditude axis using a joystick in the back, this is operated as a sub mode of the autopilot system in the cockpit, also with the handling pilot close by the flight controls if required. The hover height is set and adjusted by the pilots, that cannot be adjusted from the winch op station.

This is correct.
Mad paddy the winch op does not need a CPL(H).
A lot of the winch ops were Cpl's when the Air Corps had SAR however ;-)

Madpaddy79 · 07-02-2012 9:36pm

marketty wrote: »

Klunk001 wrote: »

The winch op can make small adjustments both in the lateral and longditude axis using a joystick in the back, this is operated as a sub mode of the autopilot system in the cockpit, also with the handling pilot close by the flight controls if required. The hover height is set and adjusted by the pilots, that cannot be adjusted from the winch op station.

This is correct.
Mad paddy the winch op does not need a CPL(H).
A lot of the winch ops were Cpl's when the Air Corps had SAR however ;-)

Well according to CHC the minimum requirements. Only pilots with a JAR CPL(H), JAR ATPL (H) theory and a JAR ME IR(H). This is for winchcrew.

Klunk001 · 07-02-2012 9:59pm

That's a minimum qualification for pilots. Winch crew do not require that to get a job, but being a paramedic is a big advantage.

Madpaddy79 · 07-02-2012 10:03pm

Klunk001 wrote: »

That's a minimum qualification for pilots. Winch crew do not require that to get a job, but being a paramedic is a big advantage.

It is for winchcrew. Was suprised myself. Bit ott. Contact CHC yourself if you have a doubt.
Being a paramedic is not an advantage. It's a nessicary requirement. Not optional.

Klunk001 · 07-02-2012 10:36pm

Mp79,
I am in no doubt, I can tell you for a fact that requirement is for pilots, not winch crew. Contract stipulates a minimum of paramedic and EMT on board at any one time for winch crew.

Why would a winch op, winch man need to have a commercial pilots licence, multiple engine instrument rating and airline transport pilots licence theory?

Madpaddy79 · 07-02-2012 10:45pm

Ask CHC, it's their requirement. Beats me too.

helidoctor · 07-02-2012 11:10pm

Winch crew do not need any flying experience in order to get a job in the back. I can assure you that if any of them had ME IR H and ATPL the would not be seen down the back. Advanced paramedic is now compulsary as far as I know. The AHT is not that big of a deal it works through the autopilot and has been around for years.

punchdrunk · 07-02-2012 11:16pm

yes the autohover can be controlled from the winching station,this has been a feature of our S'61 fleet for years! infact if memory serves even EI-BHO had autohover

winch crew don't need a licence,unless my old man somehow managed to get a CPL(H) on the sly and didn't tell me!
he was however trained by the national ambulance school in phoenix park way back in the day

Klunk001 · 07-02-2012 11:23pm

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=MAR115997

Gives minimum requirement for winch op, winch man, flying licence not required.

achoist · 11-04-2013 1:20pm

Hi All,
My first post on boards, joined to set the record straight on this topic. I am a Winch man / Winch Operator and a Paramedic, employed by CHC working on behalf of the ICG.
To be Winch crew you must pass a fitness assessment, water confidence test, and a psychometric test. You need to be a PHECC registered and experienced Paramedic. You do not need to have ATPL or CPL.
To become a Winch Operator (w/op) you will need to spend a number of years as a Winch Man before starting the long road to w/op.
As for the Crew controlling the aircraft, yes this is true. In a S61 it is called auto hover trim (AHT) The aircraft is set into a hover at a pre-set height and heading and the w/op can move the aircraft from the joystick in the cargo door. He can also operate the hoist from a rocker switch on the joystick. We train with it quite often because it is quite a complicated manoeuvre and practice makes perfect!
On the new S92 it is called crew hover or c-hov, its the same principal.

ICG Helipcopter Door/Winch Operator

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