Noise of water tank filling

kiddums

Hi all.

I was wondering if someone could advise me the best was to reduce the noise of the tank in the attic filling?
A new housemate is a light sleeper and it keeps them awake with the noise and the duration of the tank filling.
If I was to fit a wider pipe over the copper pipe so its filling from bnelow the water level would that help?

Sorry if its vauge but I don't know much about plumbing.

Scartbeg

I notices in some of my cisterns there is a plastic tube fitted over the valve outlet, that runs to the bottom of the cistern. This certainly keeps the drip-drip noise down - I'm sure a piece of string or similar would achieve the same by letting the water run down it.

However - I believe the regs insist on a 2 inch air gap at the inlet point to the main water tank. Not sure on the reasoning behind it and whether the suggestion above would be unsafe/hygienic for any reason.

gifted

It's too avoid the water from the storage tank being siphoned back into the mains water supply

Scartbeg

gifted wrote: »

It's too avoid the water from the storage tank being siphoned back into the mains water supply

That would explain why the tube in my cistern is collapsible i.e thin, like a plastic bag. It would act as a rudimentary anti-siphon valve.

gifted

Yep

Cedrus

The reason for the air break is to prevent back contamination of the potable water supply. If the attic tank was piped continuously from the mains and there was a significant drop in th mains pressure, there is a potential for contamination (dead pigeons, legionella etc.) to pass into the drinking water which supplies the kitchen tap(s).
The drip hoses in the WC cisterns might be acceptable as they are supplied from the tank and not conneced to the potable supply, but AKAIK the tank is also supposed to be protected as a potable supply these days.

kiddums

Its not a dripping sound thats the issue so I dont think string will help.

So I'm back to the drawing board with ideas if I can't extend the pipe.

I'll get up tonight and see whats happening and try to get a recording of the noise, if that will help?
What should I look for?

Cedrus

Is the tank insulated, does it have a lid? These will cut down the tank noise considerably. A better valve or new seal might quieten the operation of the valve itself. A more difficult problem is if the noise is coming from air in the pipes, lower winter temperature reduces the ability of the water to hold air/gas in suspension leading to bubbles being released when it reaches the lower pressure pipework (domestic v mains distribution), this will be less of an issue in summer. You might also notice when it's very cold that there's a whiff of chlorine released, same reason. Last reason which is impractical to do much about is the pipework itself, poor installation can mean lots of bends/fittings leading to pressure loss which can then equate to noise (the energy has to do something) and the pipes could also be moving which is just as curable as they are accessible, which is not very.

kiddums

Cedrus wrote: »

Is the tank insulated, does it have a lid? These will cut down the tank noise considerably.

No & No. Do you need a specific type of materials to do this?
I was thinking that if I put a board on the top as a lid and get some attic insulation and wrap the tank in it that should dampen down the sound?

Cedrus wrote: »

A better valve or new seal might quieten the operation of the valve itself.

How can I tell if it's needing replaced?

Cedrus wrote: »

A more difficult problem is if the noise is coming from air in the pipes, lower winter temperature reduces the ability of the water to hold air/gas in suspension leading to bubbles being released when it reaches the lower pressure pipework (domestic v mains distribution), this will be less of an issue in summer. You might also notice when it's very cold that there's a whiff of chlorine released, same reason.

Again how do I go about checking if this is the issue? I have a gut feeling that this might be the kind of noise I'm hearing.

Cedrus wrote: »

Last reason which is impractical to do much about is the pipework itself, poor installation can mean lots of bends/fittings leading to pressure loss which can then equate to noise (the energy has to do something) and the pipes could also be moving which is just as curable as they are accessible, which is not very.

I'm guessing that this is as big of a problem as I hope its not, full re-plumbing of the house.

Cedrus

kiddums wrote: »

No & No. Do you need a specific type of materials to do this?
I was thinking that if I put a board on the top as a lid and get some attic insulation and wrap the tank in it that should dampen down the sound?

You can get jackets specially for this or you can use almost anything, key points though are;

• You'll have condensation on the tank so whatever you use has to be resistant to this, soggy blanket/roll is useless, foil backed blanket/roll needs to be vapour sealed to the tank, closed cell insulation board or blanket is the best.
• The material used should not support microbial/bacterial growth so don't use untreated wood for a lid.
• The bottom of the tank should not be insulated neither should the attic floor under it to prevent the tank freezing.
• Thermal insulation will give some acoustic protection and should be installed anyway, acoustic insulation would be way OTT and is not what I'm suggesting.

How can I tell if it's needing replaced?

If the valve is not closing, not closing concisely, is whistling or spluttering for a long while then the seal may be replaceable. If it's a very old valve or is a junky one installed in the tiger terror, it may be easier to just replace. If it's shutting without fuss it doesn't need anything replacing.

Again how do I go about checking if this is the issue? I have a gut feeling that this might be the kind of noise I'm hearing.

Nothing you can do, wait for warmer weather, you might be able to ease some of the piping to avoid 'noisy corners'. Again Insulation might help.

I'm guessing that this is as big of a problem as I hope its not, full re-plumbing of the house.

Full re-plumbing because of noise would be OTT, an old house with lead pipe, leaky pipes or years of modifications might justify that level of expense. A few strategically placed pipe clips could work wonders for rattling pipes particularly if valves or taps have a very sharp shut off, but equally you could be jamming the flexible bit that is easing a problem on the adjacent length or bend. Suck it and See (trial and error) principle works here.

kiddums

Cedrus wrote: »

You can get jackets specially for this or you can use almost anything, key points though are;

• You'll have condensation on the tank so whatever you use has to be resistant to this, soggy blanket/roll is useless, foil backed blanket/roll needs to be vapour sealed to the tank, closed cell insulation board or blanket is the best.
• The material used should not support microbial/bacterial growth so don't use untreated wood for a lid.
• The bottom of the tank should not be insulated neither should the attic floor under it to prevent the tank freezing.
• Thermal insulation will give some acoustic protection and should be installed anyway, acoustic insulation would be way OTT and is not what I'm suggesting.

I'll look into a jacket and lid for the tank so, see if that helps.
The attic could use some new insulation aswell so I'll price that too.

Cedrus wrote: »

If the valve is not closing, not closing concisely, is whistling or spluttering for a long while then the seal may be replaceable. If it's a very old valve or is a junky one installed in the tiger terror, it may be easier to just replace. If it's shutting without fuss it doesn't need anything replacing.

I didn't get up to get a look but when I thought about it, I've been in the house for about 10 years and never got any work done to the tank. So the valve is from the 90's or before. Is this too old?

Cedrus wrote: »

Nothing you can do, wait for warmer weather, you might be able to ease some of the piping to avoid 'noisy corners'. Again Insulation might help.

I'm not sure what you mean by ease some of the piping?
Take some of the bends out?
I was listening to the noise yesterday and it sounds like pressure, more than water hitting the tank.
Is this something I can take care of myself or would I be better off getting a plumber?
I know they'll cost a fortune but if I do something wrong I'll spend more sorting it out.

Cedrus wrote: »

Full re-plumbing because of noise would be OTT, an old house with lead pipe, leaky pipes or years of modifications might justify that level of expense. A few strategically placed pipe clips could work wonders for rattling pipes particularly if valves or taps have a very sharp shut off, but equally you could be jamming the flexible bit that is easing a problem on the adjacent length or bend. Suck it and See (trial and error) principle works here.

Again I'll get some clips and see what I can get at in the attic. Might be more visable than I think.

Dardania

another option would be to change the configuration of the ball valve to have a much shorter arm - that way as the tank fills, it should switch the supply off much quicker instead of being dripping for ages

sullzz

You can still get silenced ball cocks in a couple of places , i only got one the other day , im not sure if they are legal any more , i have made a few in the past , handy enough to do if you have the tools.

donalg1

Had the same issue and got the tank jacket and lid set from Woodies and put that on which helped a lot with the noise. Think the set was about €25 and was easy to get on just make sure the lid is lifted over the pipe and taped in place properly so it doesn't slip off at some stage, bit of insulation tape is good to hold it in place.

I head somewhere that the underneath of the tank shouldn't be insulated just the sides and top.

You could always try wrap two around it if you really want or put some foam down the sides when you put the set on to reduce the noise further. But I would try the one set first anyway see how you get on

Cedrus

Dardania wrote: »

another option would be to change the configuration of the ball valve to have a much shorter arm - that way as the tank fills, it should switch the supply off much quicker instead of being dripping for ages

I've seen some really old ball cocks that had completely adjustable float arms.

The downside of shortening the arm is that if you have higher incoming pressure, the shorter arm has less leverage to shut the valve tight. A longer float arm is going to give a longer travel from open to shut which is a pain when the pressure is low and the extra leverage is less useful.
It's hard to judge if you're not doing it all the time

whizbang

check if you have a shutoff valve in the feed for the tank:
your fix maybe as simple as reducing the flow into the tank.

You can string a bit of plastic around the outlet of the ball cock, to deflect the flow. this will reduce noise from full flow, also will stop the dripping noises.
If its a squeeeling/hissing noise, then its the incoming water pressure. look for those quiet valves.
If its a juddering/thumping sound, it could be waves ! (not kidding). try all above. bend the ball arm so it closes at different level. try bending it sideways, away from the inlet.

gdavis

i know a plumber who swears by cutting the end off a condom and letting the water flow through that into tank!!!

sullzz

Yep a condom is a very important item to always have in the toolbox

RealExpert

Before you spend any money try covering the tank with a piece of plasterboard or plywood whatever you have in storage it will reduce the noise considerably and keep unwanted swimmers out of it as well:-)