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Hour Building
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06-02-2012 6:07pm#1
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Hi Suits,
I went to http://www.pbflight.com/index.php in Palm Beach Florida last summer to build up 35hrs. Rented a 172R for about $105p/h wet inc local taxes etc. Can't recommend them highly enough. We got an ex civil air patrol one with 2 nice GPS units (with xm weather, came in very handy!), long range tanks, traffic avoidance (similar to TCAS, also came in handy, calls out 'traffic 12 c'clock high' etc). They even spent the whole day previously putting it through maintenance so we wouldn't have any problems. Instructors were bang on too.
Went from Palm Beach to New York and back and spent a few days pottering around Florida. Grab a mate and make the most of it by doing some long x countrys. Just flying around Florida based at the same airport for 70hrs will do your head in plus it doesn't cost much more touring. The way I seen it was you'll never have a chance to build up that many hours doing what you want and going where you want. Most airports give you a loan of the airport car and you can pick up cheap accommodation wherever you land. I really wanted to do Palm Beach to San Diego and back but didn't need that many hours, you should defo look into doing it, some great blogs about lads going to Hoover Dam, San Fran, Las Vegas etc. One guy even packed a tent and camped at airports!
There's no bother with airspace little bit different but easy to work with, just give Washington a wide berth.. you can transit but I found the requirements etc too confusing so kept clear. ATC are really helpful, had a flight pass in the opposite direction 500ft below, everyone knows what their doing and controllers are competent so no issues, that stuff wouldn't happen in Ireland, make use of flight following too, cuts out the hassle. Was able to get a flight right down the Hudson at 2000ft on the way back thanks to a sound controller, compare that to Ireland, Sligo have an epi if your near them and an Aer Arann flight is about to depart from Dublin and due in an hours time...!! Radio work especially in New York is hectic, ended up writing notes to my mate so could focus on it, you need to be on the ball there or they'll vector you out.
What made me go to pbflight apart from good aircraft was that they do a proper fuel reimbursement rate which is crucial if you do x country and need to fuel up away from base. Think we got $5 a gallon which was the actual cost at most airports anyway, looking at most other places and no one could match it, some were nearly half that!! After 4 days in New York came back to see a flat tyre, called up pbflight and there was no issues, paid around $100 to get it fixed and it was taken off the bill.
Also make sure you sort out health insurance that covers you for flying just in case, found Traffords and it was about £100 for a few weeks.
I envy you going out there, don't need the hours now but hope to head over again when I get the money for another big tour, you can't beat clicking the the ptt and the runway lights coming on, then self service fueling with your credit card, they're years ahead of us! I'd say defo go to the states and make a holiday out of it, Europe is too expensive and has too much red tape.
Best of luck with it man!
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GoGoGadget wrote: »Hi Suits,
I went to http://www.pbflight.com/index.php in Palm Beach Florida last summer to build up 35hrs. Rented a 172R for about $105p/h wet inc local taxes etc. Can't recommend them highly enough. We got an ex civil air patrol one with 2 nice GPS units (with xm weather, came in very handy!), long range tanks, traffic avoidance (similar to TCAS, also came in handy, calls out 'traffic 12 c'clock high' etc). They even spent the whole day previously putting it through maintenance so we wouldn't have any problems. Instructors were bang on too.
Went from Palm Beach to New York and back and spent a few days pottering around Florida. Grab a mate and make the most of it by doing some long x countrys. Just flying around Florida based at the same airport for 70hrs will do your head in plus it doesn't cost much more touring. The way I seen it was you'll never have a chance to build up that many hours doing what you want and going where you want. Most airports give you a loan of the airport car and you can pick up cheap accommodation wherever you land. I really wanted to do Palm Beach to San Diego and back but didn't need that many hours, you should defo look into doing it, some great blogs about lads going to Hoover Dam, San Fran, Las Vegas etc. One guy even packed a tent and camped at airports!
There's no bother with airspace little bit different but easy to work with, just give Washington a wide berth.. you can transit but I found the requirements etc too confusing so kept clear. ATC are really helpful, had a flight pass in the opposite direction 500ft below, everyone knows what their doing and controllers are competent so no issues, that stuff wouldn't happen in Ireland, make use of flight following too, cuts out the hassle. Was able to get a flight right down the Hudson at 2000ft on the way back thanks to a sound controller, compare that to Ireland, Sligo have an epi if your near them and an Aer Arann flight is about to depart from Dublin and due in an hours time...!! Radio work especially in New York is hectic, ended up writing notes to my mate so could focus on it, you need to be on the ball there or they'll vector you out.
What made me go to pbflight apart from good aircraft was that they do a proper fuel reimbursement rate which is crucial if you do x country and need to fuel up away from base. Think we got $5 a gallon which was the actual cost at most airports anyway, looking at most other places and no one could match it, some were nearly half that!! After 4 days in New York came back to see a flat tyre, called up pbflight and there was no issues, paid around $100 to get it fixed and it was taken off the bill.
Also make sure you sort out health insurance that covers you for flying just in case, found Traffords and it was about £100 for a few weeks.
I envy you going out there, don't need the hours now but hope to head over again when I get the money for another big tour, you can't beat clicking the the ptt and the runway lights coming on, then self service fueling with your credit card, they're years ahead of us! I'd say defo go to the states and make a holiday out of it, Europe is too expensive and has too much red tape.
Best of luck with it man!
Sounds good. I'm looking to try and get a bit of a tour done. Would like to try and head in the MA direction as I have family there. Will need 70 or so hours.
Would you advise gettig hold of the VFR charts for the areas I wanna fly in and planning it out(as in my sectors) now or would it be better to discuss it with the flight school?0 -
Good stuff, yeah defo make the most of it, weather is usually grand but when there's a thunderstorm you know about it!
I would get the charts in advance, they keep updating them every few months (every 6 months or so) make sure the one you get is current while you're there. You want to go for the 'sectional' maps (1:500,000). Got them from Sportys. Don't bother getting the laminated version they cost more, you prob won't have too many pencil marks over one area and you'll only need it for a bit. The states are covered by about 37 sectionals so check which ones you need for your route.
Really good idea to familiarise yourself with the charts well in advance as there's a huge amount of info on them and a different style to what we have plus you don't want to get intercepted by a trigger happy 21 year old in an F16 who spent way too long playing Air Combat growing up..
I bought the 'aviators quick reference map of the united states'. It's good for giving you the big picture and covers all of the states on an A1 size map with just major aviation features.
Also you want to pick up the 'airport/facility directory'. The states are covered by 7 of these ie one of them covers all the southeast, another the northeast. They're basically like Kevin Glynns flight guide. Again these are renewed about every 2 months.
The sectional maps and airport/facility directories are fairly cheap, even if you can't get a current one before you go it might not be any harm to pick up whatever version is available and familiarising yourself.
Another really useful guide was the 'VFR radio procedures in the USA'. It breaks down all the classes of airspace including weather minimums and gives you loads of example radio calls for each type of airspace.
Make sure you understand what everything means and how how to work it ie using their telephone weather forecasting service, best place online for met, how to use flight following (this thing is a god send!). Once you get to the flight school it'll prob just be a BFR ( 1hr ground school and 1hr check out) and you'll be on your own.
I wouldn't get too hung up about planning out routes well in advance as they always change due to weather or you might hear about somewhere more interesting to go. I practiced a few going over then when I landed somewhere I'd fuel up, check weather, whack together a plot on the map, do basic nav log, call in for flight following and take off again.
There's an excellent resource on the AOPA USA website, loads of free interactive tutorials with tests at the end about flying in the states. There's a lot of them but defo do a few which you think will be important.
You prob know already that you'll need to get your FAA PPL conversion, just fax over some forms to the FSDO, make an appointment, go into them and spend 30mins chatting and filling out forms and they'll issue you with a temporary FAA (piggy back) licence there and then, a month later you get your credit card type licence sent to your home in Ireland.
Also here's that link to Traffords insurance http://www.aircraft-insurance.co.uk/travel.htm
If you're around Dublin I can loan you the maps (out of date) they cover all east coast and all the lower states. The 'aviators quick reference map of the united states'. The southeast & northeast airport/facility directories and the 'VFR radio procedures in the USA' guide.0 -
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GoGoGadget wrote: »Good stuff, yeah defo make the most of it, weather is usually grand but when there's a thunderstorm you know about it!
I would get the charts in advance, they keep updating them every few months (every 6 months or so) make sure the one you get is current while you're there. You want to go for the 'sectional' maps (1:500,000). Got them from Sportys. Don't bother getting the laminated version they cost more, you prob won't have too many pencil marks over one area and you'll only need it for a bit. The states are covered by about 37 sectionals so check which ones you need for your route.
Really good idea to familiarise yourself with the charts well in advance as there's a huge amount of info on them and a different style to what we have plus you don't want to get intercepted by a trigger happy 21 year old in an F16 who spent way too long playing Air Combat growing up..
I bought the 'aviators quick reference map of the united states'. It's good for giving you the big picture and covers all of the states on an A1 size map with just major aviation features.
Also you want to pick up the 'airport/facility directory'. The states are covered by 7 of these ie one of them covers all the southeast, another the northeast. They're basically like Kevin Glynns flight guide. Again these are renewed about every 2 months.
The sectional maps and airport/facility directories are fairly cheap, even if you can't get a current one before you go it might not be any harm to pick up whatever version is available and familiarising yourself.
Another really useful guide was the 'VFR radio procedures in the USA'. It breaks down all the classes of airspace including weather minimums and gives you loads of example radio calls for each type of airspace.
Make sure you understand what everything means and how how to work it ie using their telephone weather forecasting service, best place online for met, how to use flight following (this thing is a god send!). Once you get to the flight school it'll prob just be a BFR ( 1hr ground school and 1hr check out) and you'll be on your own.
I wouldn't get too hung up about planning out routes well in advance as they always change due to weather or you might hear about somewhere more interesting to go. I practiced a few going over then when I landed somewhere I'd fuel up, check weather, whack together a plot on the map, do basic nav log, call in for flight following and take off again.
There's an excellent resource on the AOPA USA website, loads of free interactive tutorials with tests at the end about flying in the states. There's a lot of them but defo do a few which you think will be important.
You prob know already that you'll need to get your FAA PPL conversion, just fax over some forms to the FSDO, make an appointment, go into them and spend 30mins chatting and filling out forms and they'll issue you with a temporary FAA (piggy back) licence there and then, a month later you get your credit card type licence sent to your home in Ireland.
Also here's that link to Traffords insurance http://www.aircraft-insurance.co.uk/travel.htm
If you're around Dublin I can loan you the maps (out of date) they cover all east coast and all the lower states. The 'aviators quick reference map of the united states'. The southeast & northeast airport/facility directories and the 'VFR radio procedures in the USA' guide.
Wow thanks! I was looking into the sectional maps there yesterday. I think I'll need them for the general East Coast direction From Florida up to MA or RI. I was going to hazard a go at getting to CO but I've lost my bottle!:D
My main worry is just trying to figure the little differences out. I cant shake the fear that I'll end up with an F16 on my ass somehwere!:cool: I'm a child of the simple C/G airspace of this island so I'll have to brush up on the procedures for the US.
I'm excited about it though, it'll be an adventure I suppose. I'm just the type of man who likes to have a plan!
Oh and yaeger I'm not looking for a really easy place to fly from. I was more concerned with finding a place that wasnt boxed in on 3 sides by class A or something like that.0 -
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All good advice above.
Suggest you brush up on airspace, read this:
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/media/PHAK%20-%20Chapter%2014.pdf
Sectionals are available also on http://www.skyvector.com
Perhaps have listen to US ATC on http://www.liveatc.net
Having a look through the charts there. I think it's fair to say I have no idea what to make of them. I mean I can see the airports etc and the various airspace dimensions...yet Im having trouble picting out their altitudes and there seems to be Danger and Prohibited areas in the time!
I'm actually good at navigation and radio work...that is a real strong point for me...yet...0 -
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I can understand that, just don't necessarily go with cheapest ! It is your skill set your building, the foundation of your career so don't cut corners !
Who knows what manner of flight/sim test you will have for your first commercial job, and your skill or lack thereof will be evident!
I would suggest you avoid just flying a quiet uneventful A>B to clock hrs.
Know your aircraft , its speeds , its memory items for emergencies ! practice them a plenty and adopt the what if approach ! Get to the briefing area early, Go through notams , Weather Mets/Tafs and try to build that picture of how the day will unfold for your flight , Do weight and balance figures for every flight and performance figures, have it so these are second nature to you, Have every flight prepared for like a commercial op. Plenty of variety in the US regards busy airspace so explore it and expose yourself to the RT. For your navigation ability and flying accuracy except nothing other then perfection on your timing's and turning points .. Throw diversions in regularly and replan enroute. If your back in Ireland or UK, fly into the short strips and then file flightplans and visit cork , galway etc, transit the dublin/london zone or military zones/matz and expose yourself to that and the need to replan your flight, head north of the border around the mourne mtns into belfast city, hop to aldergrove and stay the night in belfast. Go visit all the strips and that will put your hours up plenty. Your commercial flight test is a glorified ppl flight test so really nail your accuracy. Although its all VFR, know the nav aids and have a good understanding of them so you can get fixes off them.
100 hrs seems alot, but it racks up quickly so maximise your time and expose yourself to everything, talk to everyone or go visit ATC / engineers / instructors .
Its a great time in your career so don't fook it or the landing up
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I can understand that, just don't necessarily go with cheapest ! It is your skill set your building, the foundation of your career so don't cut corners !
Who knows what manner of flight/sim test you will have for your first commercial job, and your skill or lack thereof will be evident!
I would suggest you avoid just flying a quiet uneventful A>B to clock hrs.
Know your aircraft , its speeds , its memory items for emergencies ! practice them a plenty and adopt the what if approach ! Get to the briefing area early, Go through notams , Weather Mets/Tafs and try to build that picture of how the day will unfold for your flight , Do weight and balance figures for every flight and performance figures, have it so these are second nature to you, Have every flight prepared for like a commercial op. Plenty of variety in the US regards busy airspace so explore it and expose yourself to the RT. For your navigation ability and flying accuracy except nothing other then perfection on your timing's and turning points .. Throw diversions in regularly and replan enroute. If your back in Ireland or UK, fly into the short strips and then file flightplans and visit cork , galway etc, transit the dublin/london zone or military zones/matz and expose yourself to that and the need to replan your flight, head north of the border around the mourne mtns into belfast city, hop to aldergrove and stay the night in belfast. Go visit all the strips and that will put your hours up plenty. Your commercial flight test is a glorified ppl flight test so really nail your accuracy. Although its all VFR, know the nav aids and have a good understanding of them so you can get fixes off them.
100 hrs seems alot, but it racks up quickly so maximise your time and expose yourself to everything, talk to everyone or go visit ATC / engineers / instructors .
Its a great time in your career so don't fook it or the landing up
But if I dont look at cost I wont be able to carry on any further as I wont have any money!
When I fly here I do plan trips and do out timings etc from town to town and back to weston...and i divert off track and calculate...deliberatly get lost and get fixes off BAL and DUB's VORs to gets cuts.
But I just need a core of hours at a cheaper price to bridge a financial gap. It's not that I wont spend the cash...I just dont have it to spend!0 -
I think there's defo a lot to be learnt over in the states and can't say that going with the cheapest means cutting corners in any way. The price of fuel and maintenance is a lot cheaper, plus no landing fees, in fact everything is cheaper, economy of scale and competition helps too.
I don't see how paying landing fees, way more on fuel or even paying Galway money to speak to them on the radio will help with your flying skills. It's these costs that make it expensive to fly here.
It's what you make of it and the standards you set yourself. You can fly at a bad standard here or a good standard there it really doesn't matter where you are.
A plane in Ireland flies the exact same way as a plane in Timbuktu or Florida!! The argument of quality over quantity doesn't even fit into the equation. I'm sure the IAA, CAA etc realise this and why you can build your hours in a class A aircraft anywhere you want.
I've also heard the argument that it's better to fly over here because the weather isn't as good, if the weather is muck here you don't fly and get frustrated.. If you encounter a cloud you avoid it!
If I was going to a dentist I wouldn't necessarily go to see the cheapest one but you're renting a C172 and providing the service of flying yourself, you decide how well you do it. The C172 I got cost me €79 ph, I think Weston is €200ish (not including landing fees), so you do your 70hrs there, get a holiday and a sun tan it costs €5,530, do the same here and it costs at least €14,000!!! That's 253% more..
There's no way you should throw away €8,470, put that towards your training, its like getting a free CPL!
The airspace was different but who knows where you'll end up flying, good to get exposure to different types and how to approach them, makes looking at the Irish chart seem like a kids drawing....!
Some areas were really busy especially around parts of Florida and New York, the TCAS (sort of) was going mental, had to turn it down as was interfering with r/t. You really improve your observation.
There's a good mix of traffic too, loads of light aircraft, bizjets, regionals, choppers etc. I remember in a few airports without a tower and good few lads were on common freq, loads aircraft coming and going, transiting overhead etc and there were no issues coordinating it all between ourselves. Gives you a bit of a confidence boost.
Also the r/t was crazy at times, it felt like being in an auction! You can be waiting a long time to get a word in and when you talk you make it quick, clear and precise out of necessity. Only so many times you call Shannon to tell them where you are when they're not even requesting it or making radio calls to yourself in Trevet!
Another major benefit of flying in the states is the possibility to do proper night flying, you could do all your x country at night! Over here the best you'll get is pottering about in close proximity to an airport if it's open and paying a lot for it.
JesusNut is right, it does get very boring over here and feels like you're burning holes in the sky more so than in the states. It's very quiet and you don't get the same interaction with ATC or other aircraft.
I think Yeager has some really good points about setting goals for yourself, there's a good read I found about 100 PPL challenges to set yourself which I've attached.
Best of luck with it man, there's a great GA attitude over there and you'll love it.0 -
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Having a look through the charts there. I think it's fair to say I have no idea what to make of them. I mean I can see the airports etc and the various airspace dimensions...yet Im having trouble picting out their altitudes and there seems to be Danger and Prohibited areas in the time!
Some more study material to help:
http://flighttraining.aopa.org/pdfs/Intro_to_VFR_Chart_Symbols.pdf
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/media/PHAK%20-%20Chapter%2015.pdf
Perhaps you should book some hours ground school also with an instructor if you decide to go to the US.0 -
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