Buying a trained gun dog

fiestaman

Whats yer opinion on this matter. Is it worth the extra E500. Will the dog take well to a new owner, listen to new owner to giv commands ect ect.

daithi55

in my opinion i dont see why someone would be selling trained dogs
after putting so much work into them
id buy a pup when getting a dog
also buying a dog trained doesnt mean he will stay trained
he needs to be worked constantly to maintain a standard
and not just brought out on the first and expected to work miracles

cavan shooter

I have debated this in the past but went for a pup for a number of reasons including that I feel the pup bonds better, you get to know him and he gets to know you. Even if you buy a new 100% trained Dog you are starting from scratch as the dog has to get to know you, the way you blow the whistle etc. I've been advised off buying trained dogs especially with children in the house because the dog may or may not be used to kids play etc. I know a man who spent €1200 on a trained lab, the dog was fantastic, hunt, retrieve he would sit , stay and literally (sh1t) on command. But because he wasn't working the dog the way the owner did and getting out as often as the previous owner then the dog eventually became a very expensive good dog. As good as any dropper a man is willing to put time into.

It might be different if you bought a pup and sent him off for finishing. Just my 2cents worth.

kermitpwee

I have bought trained springers in the past, budget 1000-2000 for a well trained one. I once got very lucky with a 350euro dog but the lad was leaving for australia the next day.
Yes it will take you time to learn to control the dog unless it is soft natured, most are nowadays. It all depends who trained the dog, if the dog has been trained well why is he for sale?
The advantage is you can see the dog work, with a pup you are taking a gamble whether it will ever be any good.

If you buy a trained dog you need time, buy a pup you also need time!

Everybody has different expectations and standards and it can greatly vary, what some lads consider well trained another lad might think is rubbish. I will only shoot over a springer that is quartering his ground at pace and close, steady to flush and shot and especially ground game and 100% on all whistle commands, enter cover on command and capable of blind retrieves at distance. To get a dog like this you will pay big money and then work hard with him.
It all depends what you want, for the normal man what I want is too much, I got spoiled during the boom and am lucky to have 2 springers left that I couldn't afford to buy now.
What do you want?
I have 2 young dogs that I am training myself and it can be done but you will need time and a supply of game. If you have the time you can do it yourself. Good luck!

charlie10

i posted on a previous thread last year that it would be a pup and nothing else! well how wrong was i . i bought a part trained springer who i shot alot of birds with and is retrieving land and water and has bonded with me as good if not better than the dog i had for 16 months ,plus you know what you have when you buy a trained dog!! i will get a pup again but not unless i had a trained dog in the dog run to take out

Spunk84

There's usually an influx of "Trained Dogs " LOL on DD at the start of the season. Pretty much dogs that are as much use as rubber in the Vatican. When I sold a dog there before the season started I was speaking with buyer. He had seen a half a dozen or so dogs that were "fully trained " supposedly and said he never seen such muck in his life.in one instance a 1200euro dog walked behind him and the owner, wouldn't go into ditches unless a pheasant had walk threw it previously. Another instance he went to see a dog in Mayo from carlow and he said the dog was perfect! Until he took his gun out and it ran away and they couldn't find it haahahahaa

If I was going to buy a dog again it would be around 12-18 months shot over and have a keen game drive.training wise I would teach it manners myself but it would have to be something special in hunting game. If I was going to buy a fully or nearly trained dog it wouldn't matter what the dog could do on the whistle, if it hadnt a good nose and drive then I wouldn't touch it. It's 95% drive and 5% training

kermitpwee

Spunk84 wrote: »

There's usually an influx of "Trained Dogs " LOL on DD at the start of the season. Pretty much dogs that are as much use as rubber in the Vatican. When I sold a dog there before the season started I was speaking with buyer. He had seen a half a dozen or so dogs that were "fully trained " supposedly and said he never seen such muck in his life.in one instance a 1200euro dog walked behind him and the owner, wouldn't go into ditches unless a pheasant had walk threw it previously. Another instance he went to see a dog in Mayo from carlow and he said the dog was perfect! Until he took his gun out and it ran away and they couldn't find it haahahahaa

If I was going to buy a dog again it would be around 12-18 months shot over and have a keen game drive.training wise I would teach it manners myself but it would have to be something special in hunting game. If I was going to buy a fully or nearly trained dog it wouldn't matter what the dog could do on the whistle, if it hadnt a good nose and drive then I wouldn't touch it. It's 95% drive and 5% training

I agree with some of your comments and disagree with some!
Yes there is a lot of rubbish out there, There are a batch of dogs out there with new trialing blood that need a lot of scent to hunt, they are not like the dogs of 20 years ago that would hunt concrete for miles!

Buying a dog of 12-18 months is difficult, if they have been trained slowly then they wont have seen game yet so very hard to know how they will react, also this is the age when dogs are sold as they haven't shown the signs of a good dog so are sold on. If you buy a older dog you might worry is he ill.

As for hunting, in recent years spaniels have gone very soft, people recommend bringing them hunting at 6 months to get the drive in them. I feel the drive has gone out of spaniels recently, ask any man of 50 plus why he is using pointers and he will tell you that spaniels were mad for game and couldn't be controlled. These dogs are a rarer breed now but still exist in pockets out there. For this reason I would be carefull of saying that 5% training is sufficient. I like hard going dogs that don't like to be controlled tbh, for me these dogs the training is 95% and they will need constant training. These dogs when trained on a whistle and kept tight are a pleasure to watch, the real pleasure is when their drive is like a maniac but you have got to the level of trainng where the whistle is rarely used. Its that point where you are in control but only just on the edge, the dog is close to breaking from you but he doesn't.

I own one such dog, my uncle owns one but he can't control him, I have taken him in for training many times and tightened him but he is just too much dog for my uncle. He is imo a class dog and I would love to own him.
You have to put a suitable dog with a suitable owner. I hate soft dogs that wont test me, most of the new trialing blood is soft and these dogs need game early.
Sorry for the rant!

yessam

kermitpwee wrote: »

I agree with some of your comments and disagree with some!
Yes there is a lot of rubbish out there, There are a batch of dogs out there with new trialing blood that need a lot of scent to hunt, they are not like the dogs of 20 years ago that would hunt concrete for miles!

Buying a dog of 12-18 months is difficult, if they have been trained slowly then they wont have seen game yet so very hard to know how they will react, also this is the age when dogs are sold as they haven't shown the signs of a good dog so are sold on. If you buy a older dog you might worry is he ill.

As for hunting, in recent years spaniels have gone very soft, people recommend bringing them hunting at 6 months to get the drive in them. I feel the drive has gone out of spaniels recently, ask any man of 50 plus why he is using pointers and he will tell you that spaniels were mad for game and couldn't be controlled. These dogs are a rarer breed now but still exist in pockets out there. For this reason I would be carefull of saying that 5% training is sufficient. I like hard going dogs that don't like to be controlled tbh, for me these dogs the training is 95% and they will need constant training. These dogs when trained on a whistle and kept tight are a pleasure to watch, the real pleasure is when their drive is like a maniac but you have got to the level of trainng where the whistle is rarely used. Its that point where you are in control but only just on the edge, the dog is close to breaking from you but he doesn't.

I own one such dog, my uncle owns one but he can't control him, I have taken him in for training many times and tightened him but he is just too much dog for my uncle. He is imo a class dog and I would love to own him.
You have to put a suitable dog with a suitable owner. I hate soft dogs that wont test me, most of the new trialing blood is soft and these dogs need game early.
Sorry for the rant!

do you know anyone breeding these hard working spaniels you are talkin about

kermitpwee

yessam wrote: »

do you know anyone breeding these hard working spaniels you are talkin about

I have bred myself but can't find a suitable bitch at the moment, been looking for 6 months now. I know 2 other guys and neither are breeding this year, one guy may but he has cockers but they are very hard going and judging from previous litters they would be too much for a novice. I will take a dog of him if he is breeding this year, if he is I can pm you if you like. I will know by April. Most will be non reg, if I breed mine will be registered from badgercourt, birdrowe lines but most of the pups are promised to lads already although one or two may pull out.

What type of shooting do you do? If your in a area such as the midlands where there are pheasants galore any decent spaniel will do the job I would imagine, for somewhere where there is little game and heavy going you will need a spaniel that will quest for game constantly or maybe your into woodcock shooting?

TriggerPL

fiestaman wrote: »

Whats yer opinion on this matter. Is it worth the extra E500. Will the dog take well to a new owner, listen to new owner to giv commands ect ect.

depends on the dog your looking for .

a pointer or lab fully trained will be a gud hunting companion but a spaniel unless 5 or 6 years old will test you and test you to the last and you will either win and have a great hunting dog or break and from that day on he will know he has you in the bag so to speak .

and spaniels wont take the slap on the head to lightly if you think il bate that dog when he steps out of line then a spaniel aint for you they need constant assurance that there doing things right .

TriggerPL

yessam wrote: »

do you know anyone breeding these hard working spaniels you are talkin about

i can see if there is going to be a litter of the parents of ben this year if you like he a hard hitting spaniel like his father and he so alert to everything going on . this photo is of him on a night flight in january

kermitpwee wrote: »

I have bred myself but can't find a suitable bitch at the moment, been looking for 6 months now. I know 2 other guys and neither are breeding this year, one guy may but he has cockers but they are very hard going and judging from previous litters they would be too much for a novice. I will take a dog of him if he is breeding this year, if he is I can pm you if you like. I will know by April. Most will be non reg, if I breed mine will be registered from badgercourt, birdrowe lines but most of the pups are promised to lads already although one or two may pull out.

What type of shooting do you do? If your in a area such as the midlands where there are pheasants galore any decent spaniel will do the job I would imagine, for somewhere where there is little game and heavy going you will need a spaniel that will quest for game constantly or maybe your into woodcock shooting?

suitable bitches are impossible to find , is it cockers or springers your looking for . ive had two bitches out of super breading and they turned out to be dirt . the question is where has all the hard hitting bitches gone?

Spunk84

kermitpwee wrote: »

Spunk84 wrote: »

There's usually an influx of "Trained Dogs " LOL on DD at the start of the season. Pretty much dogs that are as much use as rubber in the Vatican. When I sold a dog there before the season started I was speaking with buyer. He had seen a half a dozen or so dogs that were "fully trained " supposedly and said he never seen such muck in his life.in one instance a 1200euro dog walked behind him and the owner, wouldn't go into ditches unless a pheasant had walk threw it previously. Another instance he went to see a dog in Mayo from carlow and he said the dog was perfect! Until he took his gun out and it ran away and they couldn't find it haahahahaa

If I was going to buy a dog again it would be around 12-18 months shot over and have a keen game drive.training wise I would teach it manners myself but it would have to be something special in hunting game. If I was going to buy a fully or nearly trained dog it wouldn't matter what the dog could do on the whistle, if it hadnt a good nose and drive then I wouldn't touch it. It's 95% drive and 5% training

I agree with some of your comments and disagree with some!
Yes there is a lot of rubbish out there, There are a batch of dogs out there with new trialing blood that need a lot of scent to hunt, they are not like the dogs of 20 years ago that would hunt concrete for miles!

Buying a dog of 12-18 months is difficult, if they have been trained slowly then they wont have seen game yet so very hard to know how they will react, also this is the age when dogs are sold as they haven't shown the signs of a good dog so are sold on. If you buy a older dog you might worry is he ill.

As for hunting, in recent years spaniels have gone very soft, people recommend bringing them hunting at 6 months to get the drive in them. I feel the drive has gone out of spaniels recently, ask any man of 50 plus why he is using pointers and he will tell you that spaniels were mad for game and couldn't be controlled. These dogs are a rarer breed now but still exist in pockets out there. For this reason I would be carefull of saying that 5% training is sufficient. I like hard going dogs that don't like to be controlled tbh, for me these dogs the training is 95% and they will need constant training. These dogs when trained on a whistle and kept tight are a pleasure to watch, the real pleasure is when their drive is like a maniac but you have got to the level of trainng where the whistle is rarely used. Its that point where you are in control but only just on the edge, the dog is close to breaking from you but he doesn't.

I own one such dog, my uncle owns one but he can't control him, I have taken him in for training many times and tightened him but he is just too much dog for my uncle. He is imo a class dog and I would love to own him.
You have to put a suitable dog with a suitable owner. I hate soft dogs that wont test me, most of the new trialing blood is soft and these dogs need game early.
Sorry for the rant!

Very good points mate. Most bitches I see have very skinny legs these days as well.

kermitpwee

TriggerPL wrote: »

depends on the dog your looking for .

a pointer or lab fully trained will be a gud hunting companion but a spaniel unless 5 or 6 years old will test you and test you to the last and you will either win and have a great hunting dog or break and from that day on he will know he has you in the bag so to speak .

and spaniels wont take the slap on the head to lightly if you think il bate that dog when he steps out of line then a spaniel aint for you they need constant assurance that there doing things right .

Never a truer word spoken

EPointer=Birdss

kermitpwee wrote: »

As for hunting, in recent years spaniels have gone very soft, people recommend bringing them hunting at 6 months to get the drive in them. I feel the drive has gone out of spaniels recently, ask any man of 50 plus why he is using pointers and he will tell you that spaniels were mad for game and couldn't be controlled. These dogs are a rarer breed now but still exist in pockets out there. For this reason I would be carefull of saying that 5% training is sufficient. I like hard going dogs that don't like to be controlled tbh, for me these dogs the training is 95% and they will need constant training. These dogs when trained on a whistle and kept tight are a pleasure to watch, the real pleasure is when their drive is like a maniac but you have got to the level of trainng where the whistle is rarely used. Its that point where you are in control but only just on the edge, the dog is close to breaking from you but he doesn't.

I own one such dog, my uncle owns one but he can't control him, I have taken him in for training many times and tightened him but he is just too much dog for my uncle. He is imo a class dog and I would love to own him.
You have to put a suitable dog with a suitable owner. I hate soft dogs that wont test me, most of the new trialing blood is soft and these dogs need game early.
Sorry for the rant!

Couldn't agree more. Well said

Pups for me as regards the topic but I'd buy a dog from someone I felt knew dogs & not half the cowboys out there that think they do. A dog is not about handling & backflips on a whistle. There's a lot more to it & give me personally a wild mannerless hard hunting brute i could work on before a fancy well mannered robot that I didn't have to any day.

good logs...

no one sells a good dog, start of with a pup.

kermitpwee

TriggerPL wrote: »

i can see if there is going to be a litter of the parents of ben this year if you like he a hard hitting spaniel like his father and he so alert to everything going on . this photo is of him on a night flight in january




suitable bitches are impossible to find , is it cockers or springers your looking for . ive had two bitches out of super breading and they turned out to be dirt . the question is where has all the hard hitting bitches gone?

I had a bitch lined up, a very good spaniel and to tell the truth I fell out with the owner for personal reasons. We are now in a situation where I rate his bitch highly and he rates my dog highly but there are two thick men in the way! Apart from that I haven't seen a good bitch in a long time. The trialing men don't want bitches as the can make more money out of a dog ftch thru stud, tis crazy really. Oh and its springers I am into, thinking of going cocker as the cocker blood hasn't been messed with as much as the springers. The cockers I have seen from my contact are very hard going but most shooting men in Ireland don't rate cockers so I don't know what to think, although these cockers are softies from welsh trialing lines.
No offense to any trialers on here, it is a great sport but imo in recent years is an artificial set up with plenty of game, light cover and birds that will hold, small dogs are the order as they appear to go faster and wont hunt unless there is loads of scent. In trials they have bred small fast dogs that can be handled superbly with poor to average drive which dosen't affect them as there is so much scent they will get hot anyway but not to an extent that they cannot be controlled. No good to me in the west where there is little game!
I am such a bitch today! Sorry!

TriggerPL

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. Well said

Pups for me as regards the topic but I'd buy a dog from someone I felt knew dogs & not half the cowboys out there that think they do. A dog is not about handling & backflips on a whistle. There's a lot more to it & give me personally a wild mannerless hard hunting brute i could work on before a fancy well mannered robot that I didn't have to any day.

if you can get him to stop on the wistle and return to you , what more does a rough shooter need , i my self like to have them sit staying and returning on the wistle , i dont need this spaniel that is under ur feet running round in figure 8s that need a rain coat at the first sign of rain

TriggerPL

kermitpwee wrote: »

I had a bitch lined up, a very good spaniel and to tell the truth I fell out with the owner for personal reasons. We are now in a situation where I rate his bitch highly and he rates my dog highly but there are two thick men in the way! Apart from that I haven't seen a good bitch in a long time. The trialing men don't want bitches as the can make more money out of a dog ftch thru stud, tis crazy really. Oh and its springers I am into, thinking of going cocker as the cocker blood hasn't been messed with as much as the springers. The cockers I have seen from my contact are very hard going but most shooting men in Ireland don't rate cockers so I don't know what to think, although these cockers are softies from welsh trialing lines.
No offense to any trialers on here, it is a great sport but imo in recent years is an artificial set up with plenty of game, light cover and birds that will hold, small dogs are the order as they appear to go faster and wont hunt unless there is loads of scent. In trials they have bred small fast dogs that can be handled superbly with poor to average drive which dosen't affect them as there is so much scent they will get hot anyway but not to an extent that they cannot be controlled. No good to me in the west where there is little game!
I am such a bitch today! Sorry!

what part of the country are you in ? have you a picture of your dog . ive a couple of friends in the spaniel game with gud bitches but are all at the age where they dont want to breed them yet , badgercourt seems to be the key , esp badgercourt druid back rounds , have seen some monalue spaniels hard hitting dogs but getting pups of these people seem impossible ,
i questioned a elderly man about the backround of his spaniel on a beat in ballinacor and he was reluctant to tell , his bitch was a smashing bitch with the bone you espect from badgercourt and a fantastic action , he wouldn say where she was bread , or even someone i could contact about a pup . hartbreaking at the time.

Spunk84

whats the story with the badgercourt line and rickets,bowed legs and things like that?

TriggerPL

good logs... wrote: »

no one sells a good dog, start of with a pup.

not entirely true , i know lads that when a dog gets to a certain age they will sell as they have fresh dogs coming true .

also trailing men sell dogs that are to head strong for trailing but would be perfect for rough shooting .

TriggerPL

Spunk84 wrote: »

whats the story with the badgercourt line and rickets,bowed legs and things like that?

i havnt seen it as of yet ! take my dogs back round badgercourt druid , milshadow aster , hattonwood broc, phillip girl all champion back round and many more there too , i think the problem comes with using not up to standard bitchs and sires .

hattonwood broc international ftch but most would say he bread nothing but rubbish ! but hattonswood broc was used buy every tom dick and harry with a spainel bitch and then the pups were sold as hunting dogs even tho the bitch might never have seen out side of a garden or house .

you need both you cant put a ftch on a house pet and expect ftch , there is always the chance of course but a slim one.

kermitpwee

TriggerPL wrote: »

what part of the country are you in ? have you a picture of your dog . ive a couple of friends in the spaniel game with gud bitches but are all at the age where they dont want to breed them yet , badgercourt seems to be the key , esp badgercourt druid back rounds , have seen some monalue spaniels hard hitting dogs but getting pups of these people seem impossible ,
i questioned a elderly man about the backround of his spaniel on a beat in ballinacor and he was reluctant to tell , his bitch was a smashing bitch with the bone you espect from badgercourt and a fantastic action , he wouldn say where she was bread , or even someone i could contact about a pup . hartbreaking at the time.

In Mayo mate. I have always been of the opinion that you should breed with someone you know but maybe those days are over!

kermitpwee

TriggerPL wrote: »

i havnt seen it as of yet ! take my dogs back round badgercourt druid , milshadow aster , hattonwood broc, phillip girl all champion back round and many more there too , i think the problem comes with using not up to standard bitchs and sires .

hattonwood broc international ftch but most would say he bread nothing but rubbish ! but hattonswood broc was used buy every tom dick and harry with a spainel bitch and then the pups were sold as hunting dogs even tho the bitch might never have seen out side of a garden or house .

you need both you cant put a ftch on a house pet and expect ftch , there is always the chance of course but a slim one.

Imo H broc was very nice sire for trials as his forte was that in the heat of the moment he could stay very calm and cool and take direction with a barage of game around him, that is no good to me tho!!

TriggerPL

kermitpwee wrote: »

In Mayo mate. I have always been of the opinion that you should breed with someone you know but maybe those days are over!

nice dog mate i thought he was a bit small till i seen the pic with the young lad , you have what i have size in your spaniel not this bit of a thing that struggles to carry a mallard in its mouth .

Are you part of the west of ireland spaniel club , there is ment to be a few gud hard working bitches own buy members , i joined this year and two of the lads beat at our labrador trail with stylish spaniels not these bit of things .

TriggerPL

kermitpwee wrote: »

Imo H broc was very nice sire for trials as his forte was that in the heat of the moment he could stay very calm and cool and take direction with a barage of game around him, that is no good to me tho!!

perhaps down to training if he's trained to be steady then this is waht you get , and the reason he was an intftch

alot of trailing is brain washing and taking the dogs natural ability to hunt away , but the lines carry true my spaniel is a head strong dog with natural ability to hunt oozzing out of him ive seen him smash cover and pop out woodcock that other dogs passed , hattonswood broc is not the father of my dog btw but is in the bloodlines .

kermitpwee

TriggerPL wrote: »

perhaps down to training if he's trained to be steady then this is waht you get , and the reason he was an intftch

alot of trailing is brain washing and taking the dogs natural ability to hunt away , but the lines carry true my spaniel is a head strong dog with natural ability to hunt oozzing out of him ive seen him smash cover and pop out woodcock that other dogs passed , hattonswood broc is not the father of my dog btw but is in the bloodlines .

No offense meant mate, if the dog is good than the lines dont matter. H Broc's ability is that he is a cool customer which is brill for trials and great for general shooting as well. Nice looking dog ya have.

TriggerPL

kermitpwee wrote: »

No offense meant mate, if the dog is good than the lines dont matter. H Broc's ability is that he is a cool customer which is brill for trials and great for general shooting as well. Nice looking dog ya have.

i started a springer spaniel data base a few pages back perhaps you should put up ur spaniel for sire , incase someone out there likes what they see

kermitpwee

TriggerPL wrote: »

nice dog mate i thought he was a bit small till i seen the pic with the young lad , you have what i have size in your spaniel not this bit of a thing that struggles to carry a mallard in its mouth .

Are you part of the west of ireland spaniel club , there is ment to be a few gud hard working bitches own buy members , i joined this year and two of the lads beat at our labrador trail with stylish spaniels not these bit of things .

Ya black and white springers always appear smaller in photos I find, your not the first that thought he was a bit small untill they saw him in the flesh. He would not be the tallest dog but I have yet to seem more than one that was taller, he is a long dog and very strong he has a very strong chest and a very dense coat. I haven't seen a bigger spaniel than him and I have seen a lot of them. He is a once in a lifetime dog and he means a lot to me, more than any other spaniel has.
I am not a member of any club but have made many contacts over the years. I must get a few videos of him in action.

kermitpwee

TriggerPL wrote: »

i started a springer spaniel data base a few pages back perhaps you should put up ur spaniel for sire , incase someone out there likes what they see

Thanks mate, I saw that. Tbh if I cant reslove the rift with the man I had lined up a bitch with I am going to get my own bitch. I wouldn't breed for the sake of it and prefer the word of mouth system.

TriggerPL

kermitpwee wrote: »

Thanks mate, I saw that. Tbh if I cant reslove the rift with the man I had lined up a bitch with I am going to get my own bitch. I wouldn't breed for the sake of it and prefer the word of mouth system.

look forward to hearing the results of your search it the future

kermitpwee

TriggerPL wrote: »

look forward to hearing the results of your search it the future

I just had a look at your thread, I thought I had looked at it before but it was a different thread I must have seen. Nice looking dog lovely markings looks like a more modern style spaniel than I had initially thought. Its very hard to tell with pictures he looks like the modern spaniel with the long neck? I have to say I always like springers with a choco head. You wouldn't be the lad in Leitrim that trains spaniels would ya?

TriggerPL

kermitpwee wrote: »

I just had a look at your thread, I thought I had looked at it before but it was a different thread I must have seen. Nice looking dog lovely markings looks like a more modern style spaniel than I had initially thought. Its very hard to tell with pictures he looks like the modern spaniel with the long neck? I have to say I always like springers with a choco head. You wouldn't be the lad in Leitrim that trains spaniels would ya?

no mate i train them for my self , for my own learning expierences .
not sure about the neck i wouldn have thought so , that spaniels i tend to go for have heavy markings , and i try to stay with liver and white spaniels but that just my preference .

kermitpwee

TriggerPL wrote: »

no mate i train them for my self , for my own learning expierences .
not sure about the neck i wouldn have thought so , that spaniels i tend to go for have heavy markings , and i try to stay with liver and white spaniels but that just my preference .

Your dog for sure has great markings, some lads dont like the black and white, reckon they are softies!

TriggerPL

kermitpwee wrote: »

Your dog for sure has great markings, some lads dont like the black and white, reckon they are softies!

had a fair share of liver and white softies , it just seem to be the breeding , there a guy has a black and white bitch in roscommon unregistered and she a demon so like everything it hit and miss ,

cavan shooter

Having shot for years over springers, I must say that the best gun dog i know of at the minute is a dropper (springer and lab) it was given to a chap I know because the daddy shouldn't have been near the mammy. Both of them have papers. This dog is fantastic.

I would worry about some of the registered lines. When I went looking for my last springer I went talking to a man that trials springers all over Ireland and the UK. He asked me a question, do I want the dog for hunting or trialing, when I said hunting he told me to find a man that has a good working dogs and don't worry about lines from trialing dogs. I found it a surprise but as I looked for a pup and vhatting to lads in the know, I was getting similar answers.

Trigger thats a lovely Dog. Best of luck with him

4200fps

I love duck shooting. I don't have the time to train a dog and wouldnt have patience but i'd love to have a dog that will stay close not splashing the water for the fun. A dog that will watch the bird being shoot and fall and he will go retrieve without any whistle needed retrieving the bird to my feet unharmed. What I mean is when i'm out for a night flight 3 birds could fall in 3 different spots lets say and the dog is on his way out for the 1st duck,It be very awkward to continue on shooting and whistle at the same time. I had a black lab years back that would do this and a hand signal would be loads. If the dog can use his nose right its a major bonus i think.

TriggerPL

4200fps wrote: »

I love duck shooting. I don't have the time to train a dog and wouldnt have patience but i'd love to have a dog that will stay close not splashing the water for the fun. A dog that will watch the bird being shoot and fall and he will go retrieve without any whistle needed retrieving the bird to my feet unharmed. What I mean is when i'm out for a night flight 3 birds could fall in 3 different spots lets say and the dog is on his way out for the 1st duck,It be very awkward to continue on shooting and whistle at the same time. I had a black lab years back that would do this and a hand signal would be loads. If the dog can use his nose right its a major bonus i think.

dog should alway retrive to hand not feet ! if ya knock 3 birds then your concern should be with retriving the quarry not continueing to shoot and knock more birds , in darkness a dog is using his nose , you have to factor in other ground scents as well bird not seen falling hence using hand signals and wistle to tell your dog that he,s in the area.

TriggerPL

cavan shooter wrote: »

Having shot for years over springers, I must say that the best gun dog i know of at the minute is a dropper (springer and lab) it was given to a chap I know because the daddy shouldn't have been near the mammy. Both of them have papers. This dog is fantastic.

I would worry about some of the registered lines. When I went looking for my last springer I went talking to a man that trials springers all over Ireland and the UK. He asked me a question, do I want the dog for hunting or trialing, when I said hunting he told me to find a man that has a good working dogs and don't worry about lines from trialing dogs. I found it a surprise but as I looked for a pup and vhatting to lads in the know, I was getting similar answers.

Trigger thats a lovely Dog. Best of luck with him

this is a concern that has been discussed with every spaniel man out there , there was a article a while back by a well known trail man " tim dennehy" if any one can find the atricle i think it called " state of modern day spaniel" where he states that spaniels just aint what they use to be because the trailing men want the fast zippy types not the hard hitting steady going head strong spaniel of yesterday .

as for droppers they will do every thing you reg dog will do some lads luv them , and others dont it a preference like everything else .but to better the lines of hard working spaniels , lads need to work together and it comes back to the old irish saying " what do ya call two irish men standing together ?" " a fight"

cheers for the comment on the dog

4200fps

TriggerPL wrote: »

dog should alway retrive to hand not feet ! if ya knock 3 birds then your concern should be with retriving the quarry not continueing to shoot and knock more birds , in darkness a dog is using his nose , you have to factor in other ground scents as well bird not seen falling hence using hand signals and wistle to tell your dog that he,s in the area.

Paul,so next Sept when im out after duck when i shoot a duck i've to drop the gun and whistle and dont shoot any more duck till the dead duck is retrieved? Some dogs are often trained different to others

TriggerPL

4200fps wrote: »

Paul,so next Sept when im out after duck when i shoot a duck i've to drop the gun and whistle and dont shoot any more duck till the dead duck is retrieved? Some dogs are often trained different to others

a duck or three duck , if ya knock a duck im sure the dog will manage with out your help but three duck in different locations , if you knocked 3 ducks , say two on land and one on water , your dog goes for the one in the water and has a gud retrive then of course your going to have to get you dog into the area of the other two birds . so at that stage do ya continue shooting or work with your dog .:D

pheasntstalker

triggerpl ,spot on, i read that articule in isd sometime last year very good it was too, tbh its very true,cant for the life of me remember what month it was in as i cleared out all the old mags before the crimbo

4200fps

TriggerPL wrote: »

a duck or three duck , if ya knock a duck im sure the dog will manage with out your help but three duck in different locations , if you knocked 3 ducks , say two on land and one on water , your dog goes for the one in the water and has a gud retrive then of course your going to have to get you dog into the area of the other two birds . so at that stage do ya continue shooting or work with your dog .:D

I'd move onto the bigger target if he couldn't get my duck lol

TriggerPL

4200fps wrote: »

I'd move onto the bigger target if he couldn't get my duck lol

gud job you go shooting with me so you can shoot and il do the wistleing and we havnt lost one yet !!

does anyone know what issue that article was in id luv to get my hands on it ive a **** load of isd ere would take for ever to go true them:D

pigeon shooter

fiestaman wrote: »

Whats yer opinion on this matter. Is it worth the extra E500. Will the dog take well to a new owner, listen to new owner to giv commands ect ect.

I personally would not buy a trained dog, especially after my cousins experience he bought a setter trained at 3years old and paid big bucks for it! The dog never took to him wouldn't follow any of his commands! Anyway, nothing beats the satisfaction you get out of training your own dog from a pup!!

Ronnie Beck

pigeon shooter wrote: »

I personally would not buy a trained dog, especially after my cousins experience he bought a setter trained at 3years old and paid big bucks for it! The dog never took to him wouldn't follow any of his commands! Anyway, nothing beats the satisfaction you get out of training your own dog from a pup!!

If the dog was trained with the carrot and your more of a stick man your gonna have problems. The dog will be ruined. It will have to be handled almost exactly as it was trained.

@fiesta man
If you just don't have the time or patience to train a decent pup a trained one is going to be the better option, otherwise i'd go for a good pup.
If I was buying a trained pup I'd get to know a few trainers/dogs/strains and go down to the different kennels regularly to find out which is the best for you personally. I wouldn't just buy one on a recommendation especially if your forking out big euros.