Britain's railways, most expensive, least comfortable and efficient in Europe.

Run_to_da_hills

"Britain's railways 'are the most expensive, least comfortable and the least efficient in Europe'

"Britain's railways are the worst in Europe for affordability, efficiency and speed, a study revealed today. The network lags behind countries such as France, Germany, Spain and Italy, says the union-commissioned report by think-tank Just Economics. Only Italy spends more on its railways, as a proportion of GDP, than the UK".

Good news for Iarnrod Eireann.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2097089/Britains-railways-expensive-comfortable-efficient-Europe.html

LordSutch

You say good news for Iarnrod Eireann, but I suspect the UK Rail comparisons are only against other large countries like France, Italy, Germany, and Spain, not so sure that they compare prices with our little network, do they?

angel01

*sees the daily fail link and laughs* :D

Terrontress

My thoughts, based entirely on my own prejudices, are that Iarnrod Eireann are less expensive for passengers but lag behind the UK in all other areas.

dowlingm

Daily Moan is not what I'd consider a reliable source.

AngryLips

Terrontress wrote: »

My thoughts, based entirely on my own prejudices, are that Iarnrod Eireann are less expensive for passengers but lag behind the UK in all other areas.

+1

Here's a link to this item of news for those who can't stomach the Daily Mail :pac:: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/thinktank-claims-britains-railways-are-worst-in-europe-league-6579631.html

coylemj

The 'study' was commissioned (i.e. paid for) by the Rail Maritime and Transport union and it's publication is not unconnected with the impending release of a Government-commissioned report on the future of the rail industry.

The report was released ahead of the Government's response to the McNulty review on the future of the railways, which is expected to be published shortly.

Bob Crow, leader of the Rail Maritime and Transport union, which commissioned the study, said: “This latest research shows that the failures of privatisation are costing the UK hundreds of billions of pounds in social value.

>From the UK Independent article, link in AngryLips post above<

So the 'study' says exactly what the union wanted it to say, otherwise they wouldn't have published it. In plain English what we're dealing with here is self-serving trade union propaganda.

In the 1992 General Election the UK electorate had a straight choice - make Neil Kinnock Prime Minister or reelect the Tories and have the railways privatised, they made their choice and now have to live with it.

Jehuty42

coylemj wrote: »

So the 'study' says exactly what the union wanted it to say, otherwise they wouldn't have published it. In plain English what we're dealing with here is self-serving trade union propaganda.

While I do 100% completely agree with the worthlessness of this study, can you not make the same argument that the Government-commissioned report will say exactly what the Government wants it to say and what we'll be dealing with then is self-serving Government propaganda?

jesus_thats_gre

I am surprised. I have traveled a lot on UK trains (mostly Virgin and South Eastern) and couldn't really fault them in the slightest.

icdg

coylemj wrote: »

In the 1992 General Election the UK electorate had a straight choice - make Neil Kinnock Prime Minister or reelect the Tories and have the railways privatised, they made their choice and now have to live with it.

Rail privatization hardly figured, if at all, in the 1992 general election campaign. UK voters, except perhaps those directly involved in the rail industry, likely had little thought of it as they cast their votes. The Tories had been in power for 13 years at that stage and many people right up until Railtrack's floatation thought that they would never go ahead with rail privatization - even Thatcher was opposed to it and it was the weakest British government of the last thirty years - the Major government - that pressed ahead with it.

Ironically enough, rail privatization was sold by the Tories as a way of spending less money on the railways, not more. A second irony is that it has led to more government control over the railways, not less. Wheras before the rail network was run at arms length by railway professionals under BRB, now civil servants (who as here, and by and large generalists rather than professionals) directly take policy decisions relating to the running of the railways. An amusing example only last night was the British Transport Secretary telling the public on BBC News she was going to vote against the payment of bonuses to Network Rail executives at the forthcoming AGM.

coylemj

Jehuty42 wrote: »

While I do 100% completely agree with the worthlessness of this study, can you not make the same argument that the Government-commissioned report will say exactly what the Government wants it to say and what we'll be dealing with then is self-serving Government propaganda?

I misread the Independent article. It turns out that the Govt. sponsored report has already been published, it's called the McNulty report and it proposes some cost-cutting which the unions are (surprise, surprise) opposed to. The brief given to the review committee was to examine the opportunities and barriers to improve the value for money of GB rail for taxpayers, passengers and freight customers.

The UK Government's has yet to respond to the report i.e. they have yet to say which, if any, of the proposals in the report will be implemented.

The objectives and priorities of Governments and trades unions very seldom overlap. Trades unions exist for no other reason than to look after the interests of their members. Governments are looking at the bigger picture which in the case of railways involves getting the best value for the taxpayer. This sometimes means closing down uneconomic lines which I need hardly remind you will always be vehemently opposed by the railways workers' trades unions regardless of whether it makes sense or not.

CIE

says the union-commissioned report by think-tank Just Economics

Pfft. Trying to get a few more feathers for their beds, maybe? with a left-wing think tank on their side...?

Just Economics is a social and economic research company that was founded in 2010 by Eilís Lawlor and Eva Neitzert. We specialise in economic analyses of social issues and in have particular expertise in using measurement approaches such as Social Return on Investment and in conducting value for money studies.

To date, we have worked with voluntary organisations, unions, universities and think tanks but are interested in hearing from any organisation that is looking for independent social or economic research. …

IOW, their field of study is the creation of justification for throwing taxpayer money down rat-holes.

coylemj

+1 This is the banner on their homepage..

Using interdisciplinary research to address economic injustice and promote sustainable policy

Calling yourself a research body when you start with 'address economic injustice' in your mission statement pretty much means that you already have an agenda before you even start to look at the issue.

schemingbohemia

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I am surprised. I have traveled a lot on UK trains (mostly Virgin and South Eastern) and couldn't really fault them in the slightest.

I got the train from Manchester Airport to Sheffield (Trans-Pennine First Great Western I think) last week and found the train to be a bit uncomfortable, I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be on it all the way to the North-East. Felt more like a commuter train than the IE ICRs which are much more comfortable.

coylemj wrote: »

+1 This is the banner on their homepage..

Using interdisciplinary research to address economic injustice and promote sustainable policy

Calling yourself a research body when you start with 'address economic injustice' in your mission statement pretty much means that you already have an agenda before you even start to look at the issue.

Show me a research body/think tank without an agenda and I'll show you one that's lying, the fact that they're open about their agenda is to be applauded.

A Dub in Glasgo

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I got the train from Manchester Airport to Sheffield (Trans-Pennine First Great Western I think) last week and found the train to be a bit uncomfortable, I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be on it all the way to the North-East. Felt more like a commuter train than the IE ICRs which are much more comfortable.

That would be First TransPennine Express probably on a Class 170

CIE

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Show me a research body/think tank without an agenda and I'll show you one that's lying, the fact that they're open about their agenda is to be applauded

Can you really prove that there are no think tanks out there that are unbiased? Your stance indicates that we should trust no think tank or research body. The very thing that you want to "applaud" Just Economics on is the very thing that destroys their credibility right from the start.

schemingbohemia

CIE wrote: »

Can you really prove that there are no think tanks out there that are unbiased? Your stance indicates that we should trust no think tank or research body. The very thing that you want to "applaud" Just Economics on is the very thing that destroys their credibility right from the start.

Of course I can't prove it - you can trust any think tank or research body you wish but you need to know where they're coming from, the fact that Just Economics state clearly on their website what their raison d'etre is is much more transparent than many other think-tanks.

Think about it, why set up a think-tank if you have no agenda?

Run_to_da_hills

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I got the train from Manchester Airport to Sheffield (Trans-Pennine First Great Western I think) last week and found the train to be a bit uncomfortable, I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be on it all the way to the North-East. Felt more like a commuter train than the IE ICRs which are much more comfortable.

I took the same train from Newcastle to Manchester and couldn't believe what I was getting into when I boarded it, It was like a 2700 Thank god I was only paying the subsidised Sail Rail rate and had the comfort of a Virgin DMU from the Crewe leg of the journey. I would have been furious if I had to pay full whack for that journey

schemingbohemia

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I took the same train from Newcastle to Manchester and couldn't believe what I was getting into when I boarded it, It was like a 2700 Thank god I was only paying the subsidised Sail Rail rate and had the comfort of a Virgin DMU from the Crewe leg of the journey. I would have been furious if I had to pay full whack for that journey

It's just over an hour from Manchester Airport to Sheffield so wasn't too bad but I wouldn't have liked to have had another hour on it. Price was only £15 return (booked a month in advance) which was great value and train left and arrived on time.