Becoming a B1 Licensed Engineer

jw93

Hi lads,

Currently in 6th year and and have a strong interest in aviation and I'm looking into becoming an aircraft mechanic. I understand that the best route to becoming a licensed aircraft mechanic is via an apprenticeship. But I've also heard these are extremely competitive. I have a few questions that I'd really appreciate answers to:
1) Would a mechanical engineering degree greatly increase your chance of getting an apprenticeship?
2) Other than Ryanair does anyone think any other airlines/aircraft maintenance companies are going to be running apprenticeships during 2012?

Thanks alot

A320

Having a degree is a waste of time if you physically want to work on an aircraft but yes it would help your chances down the line if needed be and college is fun.
Air atlanta or whatever theyll be called soon normally advertise in apriuil,aer lingus,shannon aerospace,dublin aerospace and cityjet are your irish options who might be recruiting this year,dont listen to people who try to fob you off regarding traineeship vs apprenticeship,you'l be doing the exact same work on the aircraft,the difference is time and the exams side of things,its up you to pass the exams in the first place,your other options are in the uk with BA,Virgin,FlyBe etc ANy questions pm me

xflyer

Yes doing a degree to get an apprenticeship is a waste of time. But instead you can do a full time course to become a licensed aircraft Engineer (not mechanic, learned that lesson the hard way) , if you can't get an apprenticeship. This is the only one I can think of but I'm sure there are others.

http://www.cityofbristol.ac.uk/coursefinder/SubClassification_ft.aspx?mode=ft&classid=15

As A320 says you don't have to be an apprentice to work on aircraft. You can do the study and exams in your own time.

I worked aircraft engineering for a time. We had to keep our CAA engineering manuals under lock and key in the Tech library because mechanics were constantly nicking them for use in their studies.

pychofairy

Citijet is widely regarded as the best Irish apprenticeship these days.
Good mechanical aptitude and a good attitude are essential to passing the interviews. Read up on on the basic theory of jet engines, basic aerodynamics & flight controls, electrics, hydraulics etc and approach the interview with a willingness to learn, work hard and "getting dirty". A lot of guys have notions of it being a clean job and wearing a white jacket in a clinical environment. Ability to follow instructions is probably the greatest attribute (that coupled with knowledge). You can demonstrate that in the practical test by laying all the parts out first and then following each step of instructions methodically.
A degree would be worthwhile before starting the apprenticeship but it would be the exception to the rule. Most guys in senior management don't have a third level qualification. You can alway do a degree after you hold a B1 and do it in one year. It will only stand to you really as you enter the upper echelons of management in the airline or look to break into the IAA, design organisations or leasing companies etc. At that stage a lot of guy look at doing MBAs and will get dispensation for not having a degree if they hold a management position anyway.

Celtic Mech

pychofairy wrote: »

Citijet is widely regarded as the best Irish apprenticeship these days.

I'd beg to differ on that one!!!!!

Just one thats in the pipeline...from what i have heard, Aer Lingus will be taking apprentices on again this year...around the August time it will be advertised as was in 2011. The apprenticeship scheme may be to change slightly - and for the better. DIT are in the middle of re-jigging the course to add in extra content and at the end of the apprenticeship, not only will you gain your apprenticeship, you will also gain a BSc.... this is along with any B1 or B2 exams you take and pass also.
More info when more is known on this. Hopefully DIT will have all in place for the BSc programme to tie in with the apprentices who start later this year. Hopefully it will be the same for Ryanair, Cityjet and Aer Arann...

Stovepipe

@psychofairy, I'd take issue with your assertion that most management don't have third-level qualifications. A significant amount do, especially anyone who wants to get away from the toolbox. Certainly, where I work in the former State airline, it's practically compulsory. At least two mechs of my acquaintance have degrees, pursued privately and at least four of my immediate colleagues on the line are currently doing degrees to supplement their B1s/B2s.

regards
Stovepipe

pychofairy

Ryanair used to produce the best apprentices, usually coming out with B1/B2 licenses after their time and then working in the outstations.
That's all stopped now and Citijet seem to have taken up the mantle.
They had a young fella win a gold medal at the World Skills Champ last year.

http://www.cityjet.com/news/cityjet-apprentice-wins-gold.shtml

Most senior management I have had the pleasure to work with don't even have unrestricted licenses never mind degrees. I know about a dozen licensed engineers, myself included that pursued degrees later and it has really put pressure on a lot of the old school guys ahead of them to up-skill.
It certainly is the future as there are not many apprenticeships left in the UK. They all go through college now and do their EASA exams there too. After five years they'll have a degree (foundation or BEng) and a license.
My whole point, in my opinion, is you are better off getting an apprenticeship first. Get a B1 AND a B2, then a type course any which way you can after your time and then get signing as soon as you can. This means you will have been self sufficient the whole time you trained and now should be in a position where you will earn decent money as a licensed engineer and should have no debts. This is the time to get experience you will never ever get with just a degree. Look at doing a degree after a few years signing and you'll have the best of both worlds.
Remember, with a degree you will never (practically) be able to work hands on an aircraft, which is invaluable experience.
With an apprenticeship, you can get the best of both worlds if you want and you'll understand the aviation industry from the inside out better than any one coming out of college with a degree.
Just my thoughts.

Jamesobrady

Jw93,
Fair play on your interest in the field. It can be a rewarding job both financially and personally. However...there are lots of "buts"....

I do agree that a degree is a step backwards if your intent is to be a hands-on line(airport ramp-usually higher paid) or base(maintenance facility) engineer as soon as possible.

There are two distinct catagories of employee, licensed and unlicensed.
Doing a degree may make you eligible for employment in a base maintenance facility as an unlicensed mechanic or electrician depending on your scope of study.

You need to get a B1(mechanical and electrical systems) or a B2(avionics) license in order to become a type rated(type of aircraft you hold a type course on) licensed engineer.

To get the license, and wages that go with it, you have to have the modular jar66/easa66 exams passed, and have 2 years hands on work experience iirc.

So time-wise your choices are, a 4 year degree course, and 2 years working.
A 2 year traineeship and 2 years working. ( im not sure if the 2 year traineeship is counted as hands-on)
A 4 year apprenticeship.

I did my traineeship in Shannon Aerospace as a mechanic and then a follow on avionics course they decided to put us through. Took approx 2.5 years iirc. Then I had to self study and pass the old system, which was a written segment in 3 areas(electrical, radio,instruments) and a face to face interview with two IAA inspectors in the same 3 areas. (Baec exams).
That got me my B2 license, and type course on the Sikorsky S61 gave me a type rating. Total time for me from start of traineeship to type rated license was about 4.5 years.
I am now starting almost all over agin by looking to add the B1 license to my B2 license. Three exams tomorrow in Shannon, three more to come after that

All that said, there is nothing to stop you getting your hands on something like the Jeppessen Turbine engines book (approx 50euro) and starting your study. That will be a quick way to find out for yourself if you have an interest in the levels of knowledge required to pass exams. The level of practical knowledge to actually do the job under time and commercial pressures is something you develop in the hands-on stage.

It has to be pointed out, that maintenance by it's very nature is repetitive. There is a maintenance schedule on an aircraft and thats what you find yourself doing until something breaks, or someone breaks something
At that stage, it is usually the case that you have not enough time and have to work under pressure and there can be a lot of stress involved.
Sometimes the money reflects that, sometimes not at all.
It is a job you can travel with, it is a job you can lose touch with your social life with. All very much pros and cons. Working for three months abroad sounds nice, working ONLY for three months abroad is not

Also, if your interest lies towards the side of research and design, or UAV's and the like, then looking towards colleges in the US would be the way to go.
There are some world famous degree courses in UAV design and technologies in the US. Was looking to do one in 2010 myself, but the plan fell through.

triggermortis

I would personally recommend the city of Bristol course as it is geared towards the licence itself without any extra bells and whistles, which you can do later if you wish at your leisure.
It does mean that you get a UK CAA licence instead of an Irish one, but that is no hinderance.
I know a few people who have done this course and they would be amongst the better engineers that I have worked with in the past.
You really want to aim for B1 and B2 as this means you can sign for everything, but also means you won't have to study later on in your career to get the full set, and it will make you more attractive to a prospective employer

crazydaize

triggermortis wrote: »

I would personally recommend the city of Bristol course as it is geared towards the licence itself without any extra bells and whistles, which you can do later if you wish at your leisure.
It does mean that you get a UK CAA licence instead of an Irish one, but that is no hinderance.
I know a few people who have done this course and they would be amongst the better engineers that I have worked with in the past.
You really want to aim for B1 and B2 as this means you can sign for everything, but also means you won't have to study later on in your career to get the full set, and it will make you more attractive to a prospective employer

If you complete the modules in the UK you can still apply for the licence from the IAA instead of the UKCAA

A320

You can apply in an EASA state AFAIK,Its free in some countries

gumpy2

mite be some use to somebody on here but just yesterday I saw a course on the fas website looking for aircraft maintenance technician's down in shannon , it lasted for 99 weeks, only ting was that it was a cat A licence, so more then likely its a trainee ship.not sure who with tho, i always thought shannon aerospace was 2 years 3 months???
it is however a start with hand on training also included, and the joys of spending almost 2 years down in lovely shannon

Darius.Tr

gumpy2 wrote: »

mite be some use to somebody on here but just yesterday I saw a course on the fas website looking for aircraft maintenance technician's down in shannon , it lasted for 99 weeks, only ting was that it was a cat A licence, so more then likely its a trainee ship.not sure who with tho, i always thought shannon aerospace was 2 years 3 months???
it is however a start with hand on training also included, and the joys of spending almost 2 years down in lovely shannon

Yeah, haven't seen a more lovelier place Been there for 2 weeks now and allready sick of it...
As for the actual course I think it's as good a place to start your career as any other.

gumpy2

Darius.Tr wrote: »

Yeah, haven't seen a more lovelier place Been there for 2 weeks now and allready sick of it...
As for the actual course I think it's as good a place to start your career as any other.

dont forget thurdays student night at shannon nights
and to finish the night off with a bit of supermacs next door

you do get fed up with eating out of the fas canteen tho but all in all the centre has great facilities for training and with the absence of apprenticeships at the moment it seems a very good course for anybody looking to get into the aircraft maintenance industry

Darius.Tr

gumpy2 wrote: »

dont forget thurdays student night at shannon nights
and to finish the night off with a bit of supermacs next door

you do get fed up with eating out of the fas canteen tho but all in all the centre has great facilities for training and with the absence of apprenticeships at the moment it seems a very good course for anybody looking to get into the aircraft maintenance industry

just finished my work experpence at planning and engineering dept. Didn't get to see that much of the maintainance work but was enough to want to come back. Overall seemed like a nice place, maybe when they were taking trainees every few months the quality of the traineeship waant that great, but from what i'we seen now it looked a nice place to be working at. I wat told that the aptitude and practical tests will be held on 23-24 of February, but it may change.
Didn't get a chance to go to knights though

A320

gumpy2 wrote: »

dont forget thurdays student night at shannon nights
and to finish the night off with a bit of supermacs next door

Oh dear don't do it!!!!!

jw93

Thanks for all the replies lads very much appreciated