Viable Alternatives to Silage and Meal

TUBBY

How ye folks.

Just wondering does anybody feed maize silage or fodder beet and straw to weanlings in the first winter and if so, how do they perform and what is the cost.

I feed silage ad-lib and 2kg of meal a day each.


I have it worked out at round EUR50 per animal for the meal over the winter and EUR60 for silage (costing approx 15 euro a bale to make). So for 110 euro, you are storing the animal but doing little more.

This will be my first question for the discussion group when it starts:p

Just after doing the accounts and am looking at everything now to see how I can improve.

fatoftheland

when do you cut your silage? if you have high quality silage it can put on 0.5 kg/hd/day.it needs to be reseeded ground and cut before the 20th may

TUBBY

Its on reseeded fairly recent ground for the most part and is cut early June at latest for 1st cut and then August 2nd cut.

Sell some silage if I have it and have repeat customers - all happy with it so it decent quality but I am more thinking of alternatives to silage and losing the ground for so long also.

if you break it down, you have cattle in sheds for 4.5-5 months. That leaves 7 months for grazing. You have meadow taken up for 8wks and not back in rotation for another 3wks at least. if taking second cut, you can double that. In other words, at the very least, the silage ground is only available for 4 months of the year tops.

If that land was available instead of doing silage, you could have higher stocking no.'s and just take out paddocks that get strong for hay (along with beet).
No silage means less fertilizer, not parching the land of P and K, more land available, no contractor charges, not depending on weather for decent silage - then maybe buy in maize silage of feed beet and hay at not much extra cost.
Thats the way I am starting to think.

blue5000

OP what about kale?

bob charles

50c a day per head feed costs and feeding expense is all I can afford to spend on stores from 8 - 20 months of age during winter. Cant see it being economic to be spending anymore. Dont care about ADG as plenty of compensatory growth to be gained cheaply from a long grazing season. All stores outdoors. Old fashioned methods practised, no need to be reinventing the wheel for such a simple process. you have described my system yourself, half of the diet is purchased. Growing silage and hay is just a waste of good land, let someone else have the hassle, take a sun holiday instead of worrying about getting hay saved etc

Muckit

TUBBY wrote: »

Its on reseeded fairly recent ground for the most part and is cut early June at latest for 1st cut and then August 2nd cut.

Sell some silage if I have it and have repeat customers - all happy with it so it decent quality but I am more thinking of alternatives to silage and losing the ground for so long also.

if you break it down, you have cattle in sheds for 4.5-5 months. That leaves 7 months for grazing. You have meadow taken up for 8wks and not back in rotation for another 3wks at least. if taking second cut, you can double that. In other words, at the very least, the silage ground is only available for 4 months of the year tops.

If that land was available instead of doing silage, you could have higher stocking no.'s and just take out paddocks that get strong for hay (along with beet).
No silage means less fertilizer, not parching the land of P and K, more land available, no contractor charges, not depending on weather for decent silage - then maybe buy in maize silage of feed beet and hay at not much extra cost.
Thats the way I am starting to think.

I like your thinking. Focus prinarily on growing grass for grazing. Makes sense. When all factored in, (€, time , hassle) silage probably cheaper to buy in.

And as Bob Charles says, instead of following the IFJ crowd trying to force nature by trying to increase DWG during winter, just 'store' them cheaply.

TUBBY

Muckit wrote: »

I like your thinking. Focus prinarily on growing grass for grazing. Makes sense. When all factored in, (€, time , hassle) silage probably cheaper to buy in.

And as Bob Charles says, instead of following the IFJ crowd trying to force nature by trying to increase DWG during winter, just 'store' them cheaply.

Thats it exactly lads. I have done it myself but I laugh when people sell a few bales for lets say E18 and think they are making money. It cost at least 15 to make it and the loss of the land for those months not taken into account at all. Better buy the bales for this money and just bale any paddocks gone a bit mad if going down the silage route. What I was thinking more off though was I am finishing the weanlings as bulls at 18mths so want to keep them pushed on a bit even over the winter. Thats why I was wondering about the maize silage etc.


Blue mentioned Kale - does anybody on here so this and how do they find it.

Bottom line is I am sick of looking at the land being out of commission for so long and then have bales lying round yard where one crow could potentially leave them half rotten if he has a pointy beak:)

pakalasa

bob charles wrote: »

..... Dont care about ADG as plenty of compensatory growth to be gained cheaply from a long grazing season. ...

Exaclty, I'm amazed when I hear Teagasc and the likes making statments like, cattle should gain so much per day over the winter months. Grow the frame and keep the cattle healthy, that's all you got to do.

Farmer Pudsey

A few questions
1 are you closeing paddocks from early October
2 are you grazeing the silage ground
3 are you feeding Minerals & lime over the winter
4 are you testing your silage
5 how long is your winter

every farm is different if you have dry land a if you are housing for on average for longer than 110 days you should change your system forget about maize silage remember it is only 10% protein you will have to balance it soya 350 euro/ton

Tubby if you have a 140 day houseing period this is your problem solve this and you can change around you system when do you house your cattle and let them out again?

TUBBY

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

A few questions
1 are you closeing paddocks from early October
2 are you grazeing the silage ground
3 are you feeding Minerals & lime over the winter
4 are you testing your silage
5 how long is your winter

every farm is different if you have dry land a if you are housing for on average for longer than 110 days you should change your system forget about maize silage remember it is only 10% protein you will have to balance it soya 350 euro/ton

Tubby if you have a 140 day houseing period this is your problem solve this and you can change around you system when do you house your cattle and let them out again?

Hi Pudsey,
1 Yes, I graze out the paddocks tight from early Oct and house in early/mid Nov usually. With the rotation, the first few paddocks will have bit of regrowth for the spring.
2 I graze silage ground once tight before closing.
3 Feeding no minerals or lime but giving a nut with minerals added.
4 Havent tested the silage but it baled and also usually one main cut and then paddocks that might get a bit strong as second cut so will have varying quality to be honest. Bale early June though for most of it before heading.
5 Winter is early to mid November to early March for the last of the cattle to be out - 4 months at best. Can go near Paddys day before out in a bad year (so from 110 to 130 days). Thats not just eating up the last of the silage, its more to do with the land being wet til then and would be too much poaching. Will usually let out one shed and see how they go. Base the rest on that. Spring has been brutal for cattle getting out early last few years.

As far as the land goes, yeah it is heavy enough in places -the general run of it round here would be if the cattle are out by Paddys day, you are doing OK. Thats why I have started to keep the cattle at grass in back end til mid November cause closing up 1st week in Nov wasnt getting me out any quicker.

Farmer Pudsey

Not a whole pile you can do long winters eat up money buying silage can be dodgy as while it is cheap this year next year it will be poision dear.
If you reseed every year you could consider arable silage. Under sow your grass with peas and barley at 5 stone to the acre 60% barley 40% peas. Make sure that you get a forage pea I used Prophet and a barley with a short straw and early matureing such as Wicket. Cut it at about 13 weeks when the last of the flowers at the top start to pod. Let it wilt for 48 hours if you have a lot of grass.You should get about 12-14 bales of high quality silage 70+ DMD 11 Me 30-35% dry matter. No need to feed meal with it and if there is a lot of peas in it you could feed a kgs or two of barley with it to make it strech out cattle will do 0.5+ kgs a day on it.

Lime (cubicle lime) 20grams/100kgs puts bone cattle Yanks and British are big into it Teagas say it is unproven.Only make sure cattle are on the right amount of Minerals again 20grams/100kgs. If you think about it is commonsence any animal that is growing needs Calcium (young bones young bones need calcium remember the AD) ans lime is high in calcium

Problem with maize and Beet high in energy but low in protein you then have to feed a protein Soya is the only straight you will get easy and it is rotten dear and all the cattle have to have access to it when it is fed unless you want to buy a diet feeder.

TUBBY

Dont know if ye looked at the Teagasc figures in the Farmers Handbook for 2012 but for about the fourth year in a row, summer grazing has been much more profitable than wintering cattle.

I know what people will say that cattle are awful dear now and how would you buy them, but I think that every year and yet the figures show we are the ones losing.

Thats what made me think about alternatives - either in feed or in set-up.

No point working for nothing either.

Farmer Pudsey

TUBBY wrote: »

Dont know if ye looked at the Teagasc figures in the Farmers Handbook for 2012 but for about the fourth year in a row, summer grazing has been much more profitable than wintering cattle.

I know what people will say that cattle are awful dear now and how would you buy them, but I think that every year and yet the figures show we are the ones losing.

Thats what made me think about alternatives - either in feed or in set-up.

No point working for nothing either.

Teagasc figures can be way off at times however for the last couple of years summer grazeing has been the most profotable way to farm as prices were riseing all the time for the last two years I got more per kilo for cattle in November than I did in the previous March.
If people got cattle early in the year and sold late they did well
Wait unyil prices start to fall