Drink-Driving and MPV's (bicycles)

WavyDavy

Hi all,
Im off the road due to a drink driving charge in a months time and was looking into getting a bike to cycle to work. Work is a fair distance from home and somebody had told me that you can cycle battery propelled vehicles but not electric powered ones. Just wondering if anyone has experience of this or what the exact law is?
Thanks.

Procrastastudy

You can be done for being drunk in charge of a bicycle

odds_on

WavyDavy wrote: »

Hi all,
Im off the road due to a drink driving charge in a months time and was looking into getting a bike to cycle to work. Work is a fair distance from home and somebody had told me that you can cycle battery propelled vehicles but not electric powered ones. Just wondering if anyone has experience of this or what the exact law is?
Thanks.

But a battery provides electricity and therefore the bicycle would be an electrically powered vehicle.
Electric powered vehicles have one or more batteries to power them. They could hardly be driven around connected to the mains!

seamus

Electric assist bicycles have to comply to a few basic rules, mainly that the battery can only operate while you pedal and must cut off above 30km/h.

The basic idea is that the electric motor is to assist your cycling, it is not supposed to propel you.

Electric assist bicycles do not require a licence or insurance or any of that. Electrically propelled vehicles require a licence and insurance.

Procrastastudy

I've never understood those things. Given the basic laws (see what I did there:D) of the conservation of energy... ah feck it

Big heavy thing powered only by pedal vs light wizzy thing also powered by pedal - surely the light wizzy thing is better? Does it charge the battery when you break or something?

berrypendel

OP you may find this of interest

WavyDavy

Cheers lads for the replies. I found this topic from a couple of years ago. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055363675&highlight=electric+bikes

It seems a pedal assisted bicycle which doesnt go above 25 kph is not a mechanically propelled vehicle and so doesnt require insurance tax or a licence. You pedal and the motor helps you go faster so you're always pedalling. I think I'll just make sure by passing it by the boys in blue first!

MagicSean

If it can be propelled by the battery without you pedaling then it is an mechanically propelled.

seamus

WavyDavy wrote: »

It seems a pedal assisted bicycle which doesnt go above 25 kph is not a mechanically propelled vehicle and so doesnt require insurance tax or a licence. You pedal and the motor helps you go faster so you're always pedalling. I think I'll just make sure by passing it by the boys in blue first!

Electric assist, just remember that term. The point is that the pedalling is assisted by an electric motor - the motor does not act directly on the wheel and cuts off when the pedalling stops.

The speed isn't that relevant - if it's an electric vehicle with a max speed under 25km/h it may still require tax and insurance. Simply being "slow" does not mean that it's not a mechanically propelled vehicle.

The point of the speed restriction is that if the electric assistance continues over 25km/h (not 30 as I said before), then it falls into the definition of requiring tax & insurance.

Beware of people selling petrol engine conversion kits for bicycles:
http://www.adverts.ie/bikes/motorized-bicycle-49cc/529705

They will often claim that no tax or insurance is required. This is simply not the case. For all intents and purposes these are no different to scooters/mopeds and may not be road legal.

Kosseegan

MagicSean wrote: »

If it can be propelled by the battery without you pedaling then it is an mechanically propelled.

The only issue is whether a licence is needed or not. The ban is only from holding a licence. A person can use any vehicle for which no licence is required no matter how it is propelled.There are offences for being drunk in control of such a vehicle, however that is not relevant to this thread.

seamus

Actually just digging deeper into the regulations and the OP may be correct on his 25km/h assertion.

The definition of a moped in the legislation is a 2 or 3-wheeled vehicle with a rated speed above 25km/h, but not above 45 km/h.

A motorcycle is all bikes with a capability above 45km/h.

So a mechnically propelled bicycle with a capability not exceeding 25km/h falls outside the guidelines of vehicles which require a licence and in theory then are fair game for riding.

There are two issues though:

1. Who rates the speed of your bike? 25km/h is not that fast. I'm a cyclist and I routinely exceed that speed. In fact anything below 25km/h while I'm cycling I consider "slow". So you would need to be very sure that you have a wimpy motor running your bike. A 49cc petrol engine will easily push you above 25km/h (and probably 45km/h). In other words, unless your powered bicycle has been properly rated, it would be up to you to prove in court that it is not capable of more than 25km.h

2. The EU legislation upon which our ratings are based, doesn't specify a lower limit for speed. Any powered bicycle which can't exceed 45km/h, is a moped under EU law. So this discrepancy lies untested.

In the OP's case, he would be taking a major risk by riding in the grey area. If a court case didn't find in his favour, the punishments would be huge.

If he gets an e-bike (or even better just buy a good bicycle and cycle it), he can't fall foul of the law.

Victor

seamus wrote: »

So a mechnically propelled bicycle with a capability not exceeding 25km/h falls outside the guidelines of vehicles which require a licence and in theory then are fair game for riding.

Where are you getting that from?

What happens if this vehicle is going downhill and exceeds 25km/h?

seamus

Victor wrote: »

Where are you getting that from?

S.I. 483/2011:

moped’ means—
(a) a two-wheel vehicle or three-wheel vehicle with a
maximum design speed of more than 25 km/h but not
more than 45 km/h, or
(b) a light quadricycle,
as defined in Article 1(2)(a) and Article 1(3)(a) respectively of
Directive 2002/24/EC of the European Parliament and of the
Council of 18 March 2002;”,

Taken on its own you'd say OK, it's not a moped specifically, but it may still be a motorcycle. The definition of a motorcycle in the same SI is:

‘motorcycle’ means a two-wheel vehicle, with or without a
sidecar, as defined in Article 1(2)(b) of Directive 2002/24/EC of
the European Parliament and of the Council of 18 March
2002;”,

Article 1(2)(b) defines a motorcycle as:

motorcycles, i.e. two-wheel vehicles without a sidecar (category L3e) or with a sidecar (category L4e), fitted with an engine having a cylinder capacity of more than 50 cm3 if of the internal combustion type and/or having a maximum design speed of more than 45 km/h

So taking all of these together, in Ireland a vehicle with a max speed of less than 25km/h does not fall within any category and therefore is not possible (never mind required) to obtain a licence for such a vehicle.

However now that I think about it, even though you may not require a licence, the vehicle would still fall under the definition of an MPV and insurance for such a vehicle may be required to ride it in a public place, even if a licence is not.

What happens if this vehicle is going downhill and exceeds 25km/h?

I honestly don't know. The term used above is "maximum design speed", so I suspect that means the maximum speed of the vehicle on a flat track with no wind and the engine running at maximum.