De La Riva guard ban

shinobi academy

I am reading that the De La Riva guard is banned under IBJJF rules is this true?

shinobi academy

shinobi academy wrote: »

I am reading that the De La Riva guard is banned under IBJJF rules is this true?

I think it's just underhooking the front of the shin that's banned. It's a stupid rule anyway.

da-bres

Its weird, Think its just deep de la riva with the underhook , wonder how this will effect the mendes bro's, Paulo Miyao was doing this the whole time at the euros, no bother! One of Darragh's team mates got DQ'd for doing a berimbolo. No one has come out with a clear response yet, best email the IBJJF!

Chris89

Underhooking the leg from the DLR is only illegal if you are holding your opponent in a way that prevents them from giving their back as a defense to the pressure being put on their knee.

I think.

Niall0

Where did this pop out of? Is it a recent thing, any pictures/video explaining the rule? Its a little confusing.

slammer187

jimb0_d

Yes it was just added in the 2012 revision of the IBJJF Rule Book and as Europeans was the first IBJJF ran competition this year its only being picked up on now my people I guess.

For the lazy it comes up on page 22/23

"Locks twisting the knees"


There was a post on some other forum (can't remember which) and a guy linked this fight with Rafa Mendes from the Abu Dhabi Pro No-Gi last year at the 3min 45 mark as a clear cut example of it.

You can see when he gets the under hook and gable grips there is definitely the potential for a good bit of reaping there. If reaping is banned when going for ankle locks etc then I guess they have to be consistent across the board whether people like it or not

I am assuming that other berimbolo type techniques where you aren't torquing the knee inward are fine so instead of bringing the hand in front of the shin to hook, just keep the over hook on the back of the leg as you would in de la riva guard. From the 3 matches of yer man Miyao on youtube @ europeans that's variation he was going for every time from what I can tell.

Niall0

jimb0_d wrote: »

Yes it was just added in the 2012 revision of the IBJJF Rule Book and as Europeans was the first IBJJF ran competition this year its only being picked up on now my people I guess.

For the lazy it comes up on page 22/23

"Locks twisting the knees"


There was a post on some other forum (can't remember which) and a guy linked this fight with Rafa Mendes from the Abu Dhabi Pro No-Gi last year at the 3min 45 mark as a clear cut example of it.

You can see when he gets the under hook and gable grips there is definitely the potential for a good bit of reaping there. If reaping is banned when going for ankle locks etc then I guess they have to be consistent across the board whether people like it or not

I am assuming that other berimbolo type techniques where you aren't torquing the knee inward are fine so instead of bringing the hand in front of the shin to hook, just keep the over hook on the back of the leg as you would in de la riva guard. From the 3 matches of yer man Miyao on youtube @ europeans that's variation he was going for every time from what I can tell.

Thanks that clarifies the situation

pablohoney87

Makes sense if reaping the knee is banned

Clive

If they follow through on this completely surely leg drags create the same pressure?

Chris89

Do you mean dragging the leg to pass the guard? I have never felt pressure on the knee in this situation but maybe i am alone?

bjj-fighter

slammer187 wrote: »

Yes you are alone

No im with him here, I fail to understand how a leg drag puts pressure on the knee, and I've had it done to me so many times! Chris Bowe and Joey Breslin are beasts at the leg drag.

da-bres

clive is referring to the leg drag from butterfly, an entry to x-guard and a way of coming up for the single ( I think)

Barry.Oglesby

da-bres wrote: »

clive is referring to the leg drag from butterfly, an entry to x-guard and a way of coming up for the single ( I think)

You mean gripping the bottom of the pants to bring him up? If we keep following the logic then the flower sweep could conceivably be banned if you forcefully pull the leg and they resist. You could bust your knee resisting a lot of de la riva stuff. Someone bigger than you bridging in hard to get the deep hook feels scary on the knees sometimes.

I dunno. Look maybe some high level ref will come on here and slate me for this but I don't see how this is any more dangerous than any choke or armlock. For me the de la riva/ berimbolo position is one of the most developing exciting positions to watch in high level jiu jitsu. I think this will just limit it because it kinda looks like vaguely sort of maybe a heel hook???

If they were seriously looking to improve the sport- penalise rolling off the mat from near sweeps and subs, do away with advantages, reward submissions more, penalise stalling. We've heard all these before!

That being said this year looks like its going to be great at black belt if the euros were anything to go by.

Niall0

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

If they were seriously looking to improve the sport- penalise rolling off the mat from near sweeps and subs, do away with advantages, reward submissions more, penalise stalling. We've heard all these before!

Couldnt agree more.

da-bres

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

You mean gripping the bottom of the pants to bring him up? If we keep following the logic then the flower sweep could conceivably be banned if you forcefully pull the leg and they resist. You could bust your knee resisting a lot of de la riva stuff. Someone bigger than you bridging in hard to get the deep hook feels scary on the knees sometimes.

I dunno. Look maybe some high level ref will come on here and slate me for this but I don't see how this is any more dangerous than any choke or armlock. For me the de la riva/ berimbolo position is one of the most developing exciting positions to watch in high level jiu jitsu. I think this will just limit it because it kinda looks like vaguely sort of maybe a heel hook???

If they were seriously looking to improve the sport- penalise rolling off the mat from near sweeps and subs, do away with advantages, reward submissions more, penalise stalling. We've heard all these before!

That being said this year looks like its going to be great at black belt if the euros were anything to go by.

I meant grabbing the inside of the knee to pull yourself around or into the person. I agree with you 100% basicly this move is to good so it has to be banned???

As far as stalling goes the new rules enforced at the euro's stomped it out completely, very impressed by that part of the reffing! I just hope for the future there are more ref's available, referee's got very sloppy during the blue belt divisions, I imagine from over seeing too many matches! I saw ref's texting/ completely turned away from the action!

pablohoney87

You're against allowing reaping the knee in an ankle lock aren't you joey? I don't really feel to strongly either way about it but is this not just consistency from the ibjjf? The picture does look like it puts torque on the knee joint.

Barry.Oglesby

da-bres wrote: »

I meant grabbing the inside of the knee to pull yourself around or into the person. I agree with you 100% basicly this move is to good so it has to be banned???

Yes exactly. Some position 2 different descriptions.

As far as stalling goes the new rules enforced at the euro's stomped it out completely, very impressed by that part of the reffing! I just hope for the future there are more ref's available, referee's got very sloppy during the blue belt divisions, I imagine from over seeing too many matches! I saw ref's texting/ completely turned away from the action!

I noticed from the videos that a lot of the matches were very free-flowing. It was hard to tell if guys were being penalised and I only watched the black belts and some of the coloured belt matches.

lawrencesummers

When you think about it, in a sport where you attempt to put the maximum amount of pressure on your oppents weakest points banning the use of pressure on joints seems a bit dumb.

Marcus.phelan

theres no pointing in having people blow out their knees the whole time. if kneereaping is illegal then underhooking the knee on de la riva should be too,its the same effect

Chris89

lawrencesummers wrote: »

When you think about it, in a sport where you attempt to put the maximum amount of pressure on your oppents weakest points banning the use of pressure on joints seems a bit dumb.

Excellent argument. Perhaps the guys at the ibjjf have been caught napping here?

youllneverknow

04-02-2012 19:10
lawrencesummers When you think about it, in a sport where you attempt to put the maximum amount of pressure on your oppents weakest points banning the use of pressure on joints seems a bit dumb.

Its not dumb really. From my experience iv found that when pressure is applied to the knee you either give up a position or risk messing your knee up which will keep you out of training for awhile.

lawrencesummers

youllneverknow wrote: »

Its not dumb really. From my experience iv found that when pressure is applied to the knee you either give up a position or risk messing your knee up which will keep you out of training for awhile.

as you do for all other positions that put pressure on other joints.....

slammer187

lawrencesummers wrote: »

as you do for all other positions that put pressure on other joints.....

But you can feel the pain in all other positions

youllneverknow

lawrencesummers wrote: »

as you do for all other positions that put pressure on other joints.....

You will feel pain in these posistions like being arm barred or choked you could hold on for a little while without tapping and know when to tap.
With a knee reap there is no pain only pressure, if to much pressure is applied you can potentially tear your ACL ligament

lawrencesummers

youllneverknow wrote: »

You will feel pain in these posistions like being arm barred or choked you could hold on for a little while without tapping and know when to tap.
With a knee reap there is no pain only pressure, if to much pressure is applied you can potentially tear your ACL ligament

Cool, i didnt know that you could tear something from pressure being applied, and that your knee doesnt feel pain. Thanks for that.

youllneverknow

great reply there