Honda fined for lying about hybrid fuel consumption

unkel

Wall street journal article

Class action coming up? That's gonna cost them. Surely Toyota are next in line?

bijapos

unkel wrote: »

Wall street journal article

Class action coming up? That's gonna cost them. Surely Toyota are next in line?

Surely every car manufacturer is in line if thats the case? Theres nothing they like more than exaggerating MPG figures.

btw anyone know what Hondas figs were against hers?

unkel

bijapos wrote: »

Surely every car manufacturer is in line if thats the case? Theres nothing they like more than exaggerating MPG figures.

You never get the published figures but for most cars they are not far off. They are miles out for hybrid petrol cars from Honda and Toyota though

bijapos wrote: »

btw anyone know what Hondas figs were against hers?

I think it said Honda promised 50MPG but the car only gets 30MPG...

Nissan doctor

Only in America!:rolleyes:

I'm not saying that manufacturers can't lie, but official MPG figures and similar stats are set under very tight and specific test circumstances by cars fitted with computers which will tell if a tyre drops half a psi!

It is next to impossible to match these conditions in real life.

I must fill up in Topaz next and then sue them if I don't get my extra 24kms from my tank.:rolleyes:

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

I think it said Honda promised 50MPG but the car only gets 30MPG...

US mpg. 60 mpg (imp) is claimed and she said on a good day the car didn't get more than 50 mpg (imp), dropping after the software update was applied. Clearly a faulty software update for which she deserves recompense, but 50 mpg is still excellent especially if she's a poor driver.

A class action settlement has already been proposed, and if approved will see owners getting $100 cash ($200 if they had the sw update) and a discount voucher against a new Honda. The voucher is transferable (to someone else... sorry to disappoint the OP but can't buy a BMW with it)

This is a win for several groups: Honda because they'll sell loads of new cars, and people who want to buy 2nd hand HCHs as this will probably affect their resale value. Honda has already been paid full price for all the cars it has sold. It's a small victory for owners of owners of HCHs who are happy with them as they will get $100 for nothing.

My neighbour has a HCH II (2008) and averages 65 mpg. We will probably buy one after I confirm with Honda that the software update wasn't applied here.

bijapos

unkel wrote: »

You never get the published figures but for most cars they are not far off. They are miles out for hybrid petrol cars from Honda and Toyota though

I always got the impression they were 20% off which is a lot. On top of that the EU cycle measures the cars MPG at, amongst others, a constant 120 kmh. Cars are usually geared to use the minimum amount of fuel at this speed thus giving false readings in the real world.

I think it was Auto Motor und Sport who used to drive a set course that was 1300km long, mixing Autobahn, cross country roads and city driving. The results of that were very different to the claimed MPG from manufacturers. The cars were driven at a normal average speed, they were never nailed. They stopped doing this a good few years back, supposedly under pressure from car manufacturers but it made for interesting reading none the less.

I've rented a 1.4 Polo a few times, drove Berlin-Wolfsburg-Frankfurt-Stuttgart-Hannover-Berlin every time on my own, claimed consumption is 6.1l/100km, it uses 7.5-8.5 l/100km, a difference of 25-33%, and having looked at websites its the norm, most people need 6.9-7.5 in everyday driving. Its too far off the norm imo.

I think it said Honda promised 50MPG but the car only gets 30MPG...

Taking the p1ss that tbh, she was right to sue, but they dont mention if they checked her car independently or if its down to her driving style. Having said that I know someone who has an 04 Prius, he said he's more than happy with the MPG.

Leonard Hofstadter

Hybrids are going to become more and more popular irrespective of this court case both here and elsewhere.

With the up and coming new Euro 6 rules, which are only two years away, diesels are going to be a lot more expensive so smaller cars will be going back to petrol.

Petrol hybrids will become more and more common place in the longer run, as the cost differential between making a petrol engine and a diesel engine widens, and in the longer run it will nearly be as expensive to make a non hybrid diesel as a full hybrid petrol, making this kind of drivetrain all the more attractive, especially as there won't be any of the reliability drawbacks of diesel engines for town drivers.

unkel

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Only in America!:rolleyes:

I share your sarcasm somewhat. Only in America can you sue McDonalds for being fat (after eating there 3 meals a day for 10 years)

That said, only in America does the consumer have real power and if a producer fails him, he'll be severely punished.

Over here we just bend over and take whatever they give us should anything happen outside strict statutory rules / warranties

When BMW sold cars with an engine that would rot if you put dirty US petrol in it (but is perfectly fine with petrol as sold in Europe at the time), and this happened typically after about 4 or 5 years so well outside of warranty, they had to replace 1000s of engines free of charge and extend warranties by many years in the US. And that was pure consumer power. AFAIK, no judge / court was ever involved

If that happened over here BMW would say: "engine broken, what's that just a few days out of warranty, is it? Sorry about that, we'll fix it for €5k"

Nissan doctor

unkel wrote: »

I share your sarcasm somewhat. Only in America can you sue McDonalds for being fat (after eating there 3 meals a day for 10 years)

That said, only in America does the consumer have real power and if a producer fails him, he'll be severely punished.

Over here we just bend over and take whatever they give us should anything happen outside strict statutory rules / warranties

When BMW sold cars with an engine that would rot if you put dirty US petrol in it (but is perfectly fine with petrol as sold in Europe at the time), and this happened typically after about 4 or 5 years so well outside of warranty, they had to replace 1000s of engines free of charge and extend warranties by many years in the US. And that was pure consumer power. AFAIK, no judge / court was ever involved

If that happened over here BMW would say: "engine broken, what's that just a few days out of warranty, is it? Sorry about that, we'll fix it for €5k"

I agree, and I'm all for consumer power. The problem with the US is that it all goes much too far and no matter how dumb your actions are...its always someone elses fault.

They would complain if they ordered coffee and it wasn't hot....but if it is hot, they have to be told its hot or else they can burn themselves and sue.

Didn't somebody reverse out for their driveway and run over and kill their child, then sued Nissan(the car they had) because their model didn't come with a reversing camera while others did.:eek:


Edit: Just found the report...
http://www.automotivearticles.com/123/Man_Sues_Nissan_After_Running_Over_Daughter.shtml