Cork-Swansea ferry ceases operations

highlydebased

http://www.newstalk.ie//2012/news/78-jobs-to-go-as-cork-swansea-ferry-ceases/

Sad news.

The ferry link between Cork and Swansea is to end with the loss of 78 jobs.

The announcement has been made by the West Cork Tourism Co-Operative Society Limited who are the owners of the Fastnet Line.

The ferry service will be placed in receivership or liquidation later today.

It comes after an examiner was appointed to the operating company last year.

The MV Julia has been berthed in Cork city centre since then.

The ferry service is worth around €30 million to the South-West.

The 2 local authorities in Cork had pledged €300,000 to save the ferry link.

However a further €1 million was needed from State agencies.

The ferry service had already carried 153,000 passengers before running into financial trouble.

Chairman of the West Cork Co-operative Society Noel Murphy says the news will come as a heavy blow.

ballooba

What's the benefit to the user of a Cork service versus Rosslare?

corktina

It's three times as long on the boat but 200 miles each way less driving.Thats a fair saving on petrol and much easier driving .

All the sailings were overnight and included a cabin. Good in theory but the tickets could have been cheaper on daytime sailings with no cabin and they would have taken more dosh in the bar/restaurant.

robd

corktina wrote: »

It's three times as long on the boat but 200 miles each way less driving.Thats a fair saving on petrol and much easier driving .

All the sailings were overnight and included a cabin. Good in theory but the tickets could have been cheaper on daytime sailings with no cabin and they would have taken more dosh in the bar/restaurant.

Yes but what difference does that make to a trucker? These are the core paying users rather than highly seasonal holiday makers. Although there has been a switch back to ferries by passengers due to ash cloud (and positive surprise at ferry experience), most ferry companies know that freight is their core.

In trucking, it's all about the timings. Tachographs and rest periods etc. come into it but that doesn't seem to have been to Cork-Swansea ferries advantage here.

Seems a sensible end to be honest.

corktina

iirc correctly the ferry ran from Easter to the New Year so I guess you could say it was seasonal itself, and truck operators would have preferred it to run all year if they were its core business.It never seemed that busy with freight tbh

veryangryman

The N25 to Cork is pretty dire in places (New Ross anyone?) and the Swansea-Fish/Pem road has single carriageway in places which maybe kept people using Cork-Swansea to an extent

Whats the difference in time does anyone know between the 2 methods?

corktina

I reckon I could do North Cork to Reading in 12/13 hours via Rosslare
Swansea /Cork entails 10 to 12 hours on the boat alone.

Davidth88

Years ago ( 1990's ) I used to figure 12 hrs door to door from NW London to Killarney via Rosslare ( Fishguard ) and via Cork.

We never used the Swansea Cork ferry because my wife hated the idea of being on a ferry for so long.

In a previous incarnation that route had the horrible incident where I think 2 kids died from fumes in their cabin , that was a different ship and different owners .


It's a shame , the route should be a nice idea .

Vic_08

It is all rather academic now really, 2 companies have failed to make it pay so I cannot see another attempt anytime soon.

For the freight carriers both cost and time are crucial, I doubt using that route was any quicker than Rosslare but the long crossing of over 11 hours could have been of benefit as it would allow the truck drivers to take their legal rest period while onboard so they could do a full day driving before and after the crossing. With a shorter crossing they would be continuing the same day and would still need to stop somewhere for a full 9 or 11 hours. Of course if the cost of using it was too high then it wouldn't matter anyway.

roundymac

The Julia was 30 years old, old style diesel engines, very poor fuel efficency. It's a pity but as roads got better the need for the ferry got less, also low cost flying did away with foot passengers, 3 was about the average number per trip. The season for the first 2 years was March-December. This year was going to a summer season only. The big losers are going to West Cork/Kerry tourism. The vast majority of passengers were British tourist's, very low numbers of Irish using it. The price was also a factor, I priced it a couple of times vs Irish Ferries/Stena to Fishgard. €450 V €250.

robd

roundymac wrote: »

The big losers are going to West Cork/Kerry tourism. The vast majority of passengers were British tourist's, very low numbers of Irish using it. The price was also a factor, I priced it a couple of times vs Irish Ferries/Stena to Fishgard. €450 V €250.

Will they really lose out though. I mean if you can get a ferry to the South East (Rosslare) are you suddenly not going to go to South West (West Cork, Kerry) because the ferry doesn't take you 1 hr ish closer by road.

I really think the loss is marginal. British People will still holiday in West Cork, Kerry via Rosslare because it's one of the most scenic spots in the country.

€450 V €250 in a recession was clearly pushing people towards the Rosslare option anyhow.

The reports into the loss of the route are complete and utter political spin IMO.

n97 mini

corktina wrote: »

I reckon I could do North Cork to Reading in 12/13 hours via Rosslare
Swansea /Cork entails 10 to 12 hours on the boat alone.

It's only another 2 and a bit hours from Swansea to Reading, so that doesn't look like that big a difference.

But it should be. No matter what way you look at it, boat is going to be slower than car.

corktina

you have to factor in also the time waiting to load and unload. the 10/12 hour sailing becomes 12/14 quite easily then, plus an hour to get to Ringaskiddy at least and the 2 1/2 on the M4...thats a total of possible 18 hours as opposed to maybe 12 (extreme cases). A big difference.

Just as an aside, last time we went , we flew to Bristol and hired a car and paid less than the Rosslare ferry would have cost, never mind the petrol!

Vic_08

roundymac wrote: »

The price was also a factor, I priced it a couple of times vs Irish Ferries/Stena to Fishgard. €450 V €250.

That price difference is not bad considering the difference in journey time. Considering IF/Stena get 4 sailings a day out of their ships compared to one, there is no way they could realistically be expected to match the fares on a route 1/3 the length. Unfortunately it is still a higher price and in the current economy it is hard to see how it is possible to get enough people to pay that premium, IMO if the tourist market is the main focus the route is just not a viable prospect.

Cedrus

robd wrote: »

Will they really lose out though. I mean if you can get a ferry to the South East (Rosslare) are you suddenly not going to go to South West (West Cork, Kerry) because the ferry doesn't take you 1 hr ish closer by road.

I really think the loss is marginal. British People will still holiday in West Cork, Kerry via Rosslare because it's one of the most scenic spots in the country.

€450 V €250 in a recession was clearly pushing people towards the Rosslare option anyhow.

The reports into the loss of the route are complete and utter political spin IMO.

There was a huge drop off when the last ferry finished operating it was even noticeable driving around west cork how many fewer UK reg cars there were. That's why there was a co-op formed to reinstate it, local people put their own money into it!

I travelled on the old ferry loads of times and it was great to break the journey, especially in winter, without actually breaking the journey. It was never really a truck route. Don't forget that parts of west cork and kerry can be +3 hours from cork city and many of the travelers were coming from the far side of london, some from the continent. Holidaymakers used it to have a relaxing route and start the holiday early, the efficiencies of route don't have to make sense on holiday, if they did it would be more practical to stay at home.

The price unfortunately was too high for most and the convenience was eroded by the road improvements.

odds_on

Back in the 60s, I found it much cheaper to drive from Dublin to Larne and get the ferry to Stranlar than to go Dun Laoire to Holyhead. Ok, so it took a lot longer and much more driving, but I had the time. To me, and most people (except the "rich") will always look at the price.

Innisfallen

Vic_08 wrote: »

It is all rather academic now really, 2 companies have failed to make it pay so I cannot see another attempt anytime soon.

Swansea-Cork Ferries were profitable, they made a stupid mistake, sold the M/V Superferry then failed to raise the cash for the Julia.

Fastnet Line had management issues...

Chris_5339762

It was way too expensive.

Irish Steve

veryangryman wrote: »

The N25 to Cork is pretty dire in places (New Ross anyone?) and the Swansea-Fish/Pem road has single carriageway in places which maybe kept people using Cork-Swansea to an extent

Whats the difference in time does anyone know between the 2 methods?

The UK side is nothing like as bad as you suggest, it's Motorway or Dual carriageway for all but the last 15 miles into Pembroke, or about 30 miles to Fishguard, Of the 2, Pembroke is the better service in that the access to the ferry is faster at both ends, especially comparing Pembroke with Fishguard, the on/off load for cars at Fishguard is a side door, with 2 90 degree turns very close to each other, and single file, so a lot slower than the exit at Pembroke. I've never come off the M4 to go into Swansea, so I don't know what the time from the motorway to the ferry port is, both of the routes into Pembroke and Fishguard are direct access to the port without much urban delay.

The biggest problems are that the sea crossings from either of the Southern ports can be rough during the winter months, and not always smooth during the rest of the year, and the larger the ferry, the better the chance of it being able to sail, and of doing so without disruption, or (as important) damage to the load. The size of the Julia is smaller than the Irish Ferries Isle of Inishfree on the Pembroke route, which is over double the size, and the Stena Europe that operates Rosslare to Fishguard is also larger, and unfortunately, that means a better reliability when weather is bad.

The other aspect, which is also a major issue for the Cork route, is that the Cork Swansea crossing is 10 Hours, compared to around 4 Hours on the Rosslare routes. That means the Cork route can only do one crossing per day, whereas the Rosslare boat can do 2. While there are clearly fuel costs to operate the boats, the crew cost is also a very significant factor, and 2 crossings a day with larger boats is unfortunately going to make the economics of the Swansea Cork route more difficult to support.

Freight is the major support for a ferry route, and if it's not operating all year round, or daily in each direction, that poses a problem to the operators that need a daily service in each direction, Timings are also critical, the eveing sailing from Rosslare to the UK facilitates arriving in major cities like London in the early hours of the morning, which is often the choice for deliveries of freight. There has to be a significance that the timings of both ferries out of Rosslare are almost identical, and until very recently, when Stena introduced a second traditional ferry to the Dublin route, displacing the High Speed for much of the year, the same was true for Dublin, the ferry saikings are at very similar times.

The recession has hurt, as has the massive hike in fuel , the round trip fuel for Rosslare boats is at least 25 Tonnes per sailing, that's a big operating cost for fuel.

The bottom line was that the people responsible for the funding were unable to get binding commitments from state bodies, and we've all seen the inertia that is inbuilt into these organisations. That's the underlying reason that the route has ended up being closed, which is a pity, but not altogether unexpected, given all the other issues that are ongoing with any government body at the moment.

L1011

odds_on wrote: »

Back in the 60s, I found it much cheaper to drive from Dublin to Larne and get the ferry to Stranlar than to go Dun Laoire to Holyhead. Ok, so it took a lot longer and much more driving, but I had the time. To me, and most people (except the "rich") will always look at the price.

Unless you were actually going to Scotland there's no way that could ever have been cheaper - fuel has never been free!

corktina

Pembroke is a shorter UK road journey yes, but it is at least a half hour longer sailing (don't beleive the publicity they put out, it is longer!). The roads in West Wales are not bad at all, overtaking isnt too possible but the surface is good and improvements are being made all the time.

The ferry port at Swansea has direct and quick access to the M4 and is very handy.

roundymac

@ Irish Steve, it is the Isle of Innishmore, not the Isle of Innisfree, she was sold to New Zealand a few years back, the size difference is not as great as you state, 34Ktonnes as against 27K tonnes. The Julia was quite capable of rough weather crossings, in fact from Rosslare to Cork she would have been in the lee of the land from any north westerly storms which have become a common feature of our weather system in the last few years.From Tusker Rock The Irish sea crossing is the same for all ships. The cost of fuel as you rightly state is a major factor, I read recently that a round trip the Julia burnt €18K worth of fuel which if correct is a staggering ammount. Also I think the ferry co tried to run before it could walk, if they had started a seasonal service and then expanded to an year round if they saw the demand they might have survived.
The shipping industry is a specialised industry, having co-operatives running such ventures in this day and age is a recipe for disaster. I know Brittany ferries started as a co-op but these were farmers wanting to get their own produce to market, getting passengers was an added bonus, I bet if they tried it today they would'nt have the same success.
Very sad as a Corkonian to see the ferry service gone, but I'm afraid the writing was on the wall when Swansea-Cork ferries sold the Superferry in 2006, and quitly closed down. If it was as succesful as it was claimed at the time they would have found a ship to replace it, I willing to bet they would not have sold it until they had a replacment.:(

seanmacc

roundymac wrote: »

@ Irish Steve, it is the Isle of Innishmore, not the Isle of Innisfree, she was sold to New Zealand a few years back, the size difference is not as great as you state, 34Ktonnes as against 27K tonnes

Just a point of information. The Isle of Inisfree is still owned by Irish Continental Group and is still on charter to P&O who have subchartered it to Interislander Ferries New Zealand. Fine ship, was way ahead of its time and not ever likely to return to ICG as P&O will have to return her to the condition they got her in 2002. There is currently a courtcase going on between ICG and P&O over the state the Pride of Bilbao was returned in.

The MV Julia was a ship that was offered to ICG when they were tendering for a new vessel for the Ireland-France route and was considerably cheaper than the Oscar Wilde they chartered then purchased. Obviously there must of been huge concerns over the running costs as apparently ICG wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

Irish Steve

corktina wrote: »

Pembroke is a shorter UK road journey yes, but it is at least a half hour longer sailing (don't beleive the publicity they put out, it is longer!). The roads in West Wales are not bad at all, overtaking isnt too possible but the surface is good and improvements are being made all the time.

The ferry port at Swansea has direct and quick access to the M4 and is very handy.

Thanks for the update re Swansea. Although I'm in Dublin, I use Rosslare regularly as we have family in Devon, so a shorter journey for us, and a better break with young grandchildren .

From experience, while the ferry crossing is indeed longer, there is very little time difference in the overall journey as the road distance to Fishguard is longer, and as mentioned, there's no overtaking options worth mentioning until the Fishguard and Pembroke roads merge, at which point, the dual carriageway starts, and continues to the M4.

The other delay is that getting off the Stena Europe at Fishguard is a much slower and more complex procedure, especially with a 4 x 4 and trailer, it has to be handled very carefully, as the exit is narrow, and 2 90 degree turns, one off the ship, then the other on the quayside, which slows the process significantly, whereas Pembroke seems to get the cars off remarkably rapidly, probably because the ramp is double deck, and very much RoRo friendly.

The Killer for Swansea Cork is the much longer crossing, and the attendant costs, with only one sailing per day to recover them from. There's a similar concept from Dublin, the crossings to Liverpool are a lot longer, with a cabin available, which can be an advantage at times, depending on how long the journey is the other side, and where the destination is. The costings are similar, and that's a factor, whereas from the examples quoted here, there was a significant difference between the Rosslare route and Cork route in costs, and as things are right now, that is a very real factor for most people, money has become very tight for a lot of people.

Colm R

Cork Port really needs to start chasing crossings to the continent.

Britanny Ferries have the trip to Roscoff down to 14 hours.

Is it true to say, that France is closest to Cork rather than Rosslare (because Cornwall is in the way)?


If you ever travel the M8 on a Saturday morning to Cork, the amount of cars packed to the hilt is staggering. I would guess most of these are heading for Ringaskiddy.

JCabot

"The ferry link between Cork and Swansea is to end with the loss of 78 jobs."

I have a few friends who used this service and swore they never would again. They had a number of issues between it breaking down onetime to cancellations. A ferry like thos which had operational difficulties and doesnt treat the passengers with just regard loses custom.

Dont know if the loss of the 78 jobs will effect Ireland much as everyone working on it were foreign nationals.

Irish Steve

roundymac wrote: »

@ Irish Steve, it is the Isle of Innishmore, not the Isle of Innisfree, (

Sorry. that's correct, it was late

Julia is 21699 tonnes,
Innishmore is 34031, so almost half as heavy again.
(Innisfree is 22365, so very similar to the Julia)
Stena Europe is 24828

By comparison, Ulysses on the Dublin route is 50,938,

At various times, I've travelled on all of these, and a lot of the earlier ferries that they replaced, including some right rust buckets that were a nightmare in comparison. The old Sealink boats were the worst, they were a lot smaller and didn't have the same levels of stabilisers, my wife used to dread them. We still remember a nasty, small and incredibly noisy cabin down below the vehicle decks on the Columba/Hibernia, even there, it was very evident that things were far from stable, and that low down, the engine noise was significant, so trying to sleep wasn't easy!

A few years back, the only ship operating for nearly a week was Ulysses, everything else stayed in port, or could not get in to port due to the winds, and we were booked to travel to a wedding in the UK, so I was very happy when we discovered that Ulysses was still operating to schedule. At the time, due to the winds, the Inishmore was sailing along the Welsh coast for 24 hours because she couldn't get into Milford Haven.

All said and done, the things that have proved to be very much less than succesful have been the high speed craft that Stena paid big money for, but couldn't make work on any of the routes that they put them on. The biggest failure in that respect was Harwich - Hook of Holland, the crossing was too short for the freight drivers, they needed the longer crossing for rest period purposes, and at the end of the day, it's freight that pays the bills on that route, the cars and the like are a seasonal bonus, and to an extent, it's the same on the Irish Sea, which is why Stena have put a second ferry on the Dublin Port Holyhead route, it's a better option cost and reliability wise than the HSS out of Dun Laoghaire.

Drifted a bit, but in the terms of the discussions, probably relevant.

Unfotunately, while the tourism generated for the Cork area was and is needed, the cost of providing it has become a problem for the operator, and it is going to be very hard to see another operator coming on to that route unless they can find a way to dramatically reduce the operating costs, as most of the other costs and timings are pretty much set in stone, and can't be easily changed.

corktina

its really cheap air fares that affect ferried the most. It seems to me that most fery passengers either have children with them (and the ferry is attractive if you have to bring lots of gear) or older people who possibly don't like flying. The only reason I use the ferry is if I am taking a car over for a show. Otherwise flying is by far the best option AND cheaper. I can be home to Readng in FIVE hours..against 12/13 on ferry.

roundymac

That over night ferry should be regarded as a mini cruise and marketed like so. As JCabot said there were issues, she broke down in Cork harbour 20 mins after leaving the dockside, and spent a week in Swansea trying to sort out an issue with a door locking indicator that would'nt go out. This after she had lain idle at the city quay's from sept till march. There is a certain similarity between this and the western rail corridor.

THENORTHSIDER

Booked last year return trip to the UK . Phone call from Cork - Swansea 2 weeks before we sailed to say that they had changed the sailing times and would we change our booking. As I had booked our holiday acommadation around our sailings it wasn't an option to change to their new sailing.


Having 4 small kids this created total panic in our house but we booked out of Roslare and everything worked out. Sailing from Roslare and an overnight hotel stay in Wexford was only 2/3's of the price of the Cork - Sawnsea price (one -way ).

We travelled back with Cork - Swansea and looking at the amount of people as well as changing sailing times and the cost it doesn't surprise me they are gone out of business.

I requested a call back from a manager regarding the changing of sailings but am still waiting so don't think customer service was their strong point either.

robd

Colm R wrote: »

Cork Port really needs to start chasing crossings to the continent.

Britanny Ferries have the trip to Roscoff down to 14 hours.

Is it true to say, that France is closest to Cork rather than Rosslare (because Cornwall is in the way)?


If you ever travel the M8 on a Saturday morning to Cork, the amount of cars packed to the hilt is staggering. I would guess most of these are heading for Ringaskiddy.

Perhaps it would work time wise but from a country wide perspective it's a terrible idea. It's equivalent to the problems with having Sligo, Galway, Knock, Shannon, and Kerry airports along the West Coast. They're too close to one another to all remain viable. It allows operators like Ryanair to play one off the other, as they're interested in bear bones cost rather than quality of service in terminals etc.

As a country we should invest in Rosslare and cut back int Cork as it is a much more efficient use of resources. That includes closing Brittany Ferries weekly Cork-Roscoff and closing to certain Cruise Liners. Basically closing Tivoli and City Quays thus consolidating operations in Ringaskiddy and Cobh.

seanmacc

roundymac wrote: »

That over night ferry should be regarded as a mini cruise and marketed like so.

P&O tried that a few years ago with their Portsmouth-Santander route with mixed results. The marketed it to young people and the ship had a night club on board and was very well received. The downside with that was when the busy season started and families with young kids started traveling on the route. This ended up alienating their core market and the party cruise crowd soon got browned off also.

roundymac

robd wrote: »

As a country we should invest in Rosslare and cut back int Cork as it is a much more efficient use of resources. That includes closing Brittany Ferries weekly Cork-Roscoff and closing to certain Cruise Liners. Basically closing Tivoli and City Quays thus consolidating operations in Ringaskiddy and Cobh.

So you say we should tell Brittany Ferries they can't sail to Cork, they MUST sail to Rosslare instead, and that certain cruise liners will also not be allowed in either.:
Where did you dream up this plan, that sounds like a dictat that the Chinese would come up with.


As for consolidating operations in Ringaskiddy that has been happening for the last few years, moving Tivoli operations has been stop by the planners.

BenShermin

I used the service once back in 2010 (I think) and after an hour on board my first thought was that Stena Line and Irish Ferries were ten times more professional than Fastnet Line. My memories from that ship are bad pints, cold dinner, creaky cabin and a stupidly long wait at Swansea to disembark. I knew that I'd never travel with them again, thank Christ I was a foot passenger and that I didn't pay through the nose for a car!!

In comparasion Irish Ferries bought a ship of a simular vintage (Oscar Wilde) for their French route and the pints are excellent, staff are great, food is second to none and the 2* cabins would put some 4* hotels I've been to on the continent to shame.

Which company would I rather travel with? How many people tried Fastnet and thought like me??

serfboard

It came as absolutely no surprise to me that this service closed.

I'm wondering was there any public money invested in this? If not, good. If so, then like regional airports and lesser-used train lines, there's no point in continuously putting money into little-used black holes.

I hope no-one is foolish enough to consider re-opening this line at some point in the future.

Evil-1

Interesting thread , firstly to declare a vested interest , I am a shareholder on West Cork Tourism Co-Op (owners of the now defunct Fastnet Line).
Now thats out of the way down to business , firstly comparisons between the MV Julia and the other Irish sea ferries missed two vital statistics , None of the Irish Ferries or Stena Line ships on the Irish Sea would get a passenger operations certificate to operate from Cork as in most cases the wave height of the bow doors is 3m , minimum required to operate from Cork is 3.5m , most importantly is draught and hullform , (dept the hull sits in the water and shape of the submerged hull sections , these have a direct impact on the ships stability at sea) , the MV Julia has a deeper draught than almost any other ferry on the Irish Sea , this is very important as it not only effects your ability to get a licence to operate , but as an example if the Isle of Innismore were to operate from Cork to Swansea in its current configuration it would never arrive in Swansea as it would be unable to survive the wave action off the Cork coast and most likely capsize , the reason is hullform as Isle of Innismore along with Ulysses were designed for the shallow berth at Dublin Port and are what is known as flat-bottomed vessels (Ulysses is only helped by the worlds most advanced stabilisation system while it might survive in the North East Atlantic off Cork , due to the wave height of its bow doors it will never be allowed to try).
Fastnet Lines problems lay with its management , the company got the usual standard of Irish know it all managers who when it came to the crunch actually knew nothing and this was VERY evident within the company , I hear a lot about the 76 agency crew aboard Julia , facinating that we never hear about the 54 Irish and UK nationals employed by the company who also lost their jobs , 76 non-nationals out of 130 employees is a lot better than the zero Irish or UK employees in Cyprus based Irish Ferries who sent heavies aboard its ships to forcebly remove the Irish employees it had fired en-mass to replace with cheap non-union , non-European crews , nearly 100,000 people protested on the streets about this for all the good it did , funny how short people's memories can be , but the reason for the 76 agency crew was that no-one locally who had the relevant maritime certs would work for the rates on offer , the crewing agency was asked for local crews but the number it was able to recruit was small.
I also heard a lot of noise about Julia being flagged in Bermuda , however none of them seemed to be aware that there are NO PASSENGER SHIPS ON THE IRISH REGISTER , and there is a reason for this also but it is quite technical and could take pages to explain.
While Fastnet Line is being liquidated , there is now the question of what happens next , Tourism Ireland has already put its hand up and said it missed its targets for the Munster region in 2011 and with the loss of the only direct ro/ro link to the UK the situation looks bleak for 2012 as advance bookings for Cork city and county were down 30,000 on last years figures , in recent days the 16,000 UK residents who had booked with Fastnet Line for 2012 (they were aware of the examinership but wanted to support the company) when they got their refunds they then cancelled their accommodation also saying that they would holiday in Spain this year instead , so that is now 46,000 tourists down and still going. Tourism Ireland is now talking about needing €30 million for a campaign to try to reverse the decline (WOW €30 million to plug a hole that could have been fixed for €1.6 million , but since the taxpayer will now foot the bill who cares)
Anyone who thinks the road linking Cork and Rosslare is adequate should check the status of the N25 with Eurostat or any of the ratings agencies for caravan or camper clubs , the N25 may be an ok road by IRISH standards , but by European standard it is a dangerous rural back road that has a volume of traffic far in excess of what is considered safe for use. After all excluding Pembroke and Fishguard which are also rural locations , how many European ports are there where you can disembark a ferry and get stuck behind a slow moving truck leaving the port , and still be behind the same truck 50 miles later as there are no overtaking lanes within 50 miles of the port , the port infrastructure at Rosslare is quite good , but the infrastructure linking and around Rosslare is third world when compared with any large European port. Anyone in any doubt should seek out the market research behind Fastnet Line and see what the British travelling public had to say about the trip between Rosslare and Cork , what sticks out was the number of people who had done it once and said NEVER AGAIN , also a quick look at Cork Airports schedule in the last few days can not help but notice the massive disruption to services with 80% of scheduled services cancelled due to severe weather conditions , add into that thee fact that the Airports passenger numbers are down by 44% and that Cork Airport is in the top 3 most expensive airports in Europe to land at ,and that a majority of passengers landing at the airport expressed dissatisfaction about no use of airbridges and being made to disembark the plane by climbing down a ladder and made to walk across the runway in the pouring rain , anyone thinking that the tourist industry in Cork can rely on its airport should think again.
Even the depressed housing market could potentially take a hit from this as many shareholders in WCTC are in fact British nationals or residents who who own holiday homes in West Cork who are once again talking about selling them in large numbers as access to them has once again become challenging for those who are more advanced in years.
In my day job we daily check industrial transport and tourism figures and statistics as they have a major bearing on what we do , in my nearly 20 years working in the transport sector I have never seen such a rapid deterioration in numbers as I have seen since the begining of november 2011 , very worrying stuff when your job depends on that sector.
The management of Fastnet Line until the arrival of Padraig O Kane was an absolute disgrace , completely inexcusable , more than any other issue this has been an expensive lesson hard learned , its an issue that is not yet over in terms of WCTC either as it will be central into the enquiry into Fastnet Line's loss , and certainly the biggest priority as the new ferry operating company is formed , vessel selection is the other top priority to get right next time round (a rough list has been compiled and there are some impressive ships on it) , various boards will also have to take responsibility for not intervening in Fastnet Line sooner when it was known there were issues with management at an early stage , I am unsure who the blame for selecting an unsuitable vessel lies with , I can understand the technical issue with Julia's car deck going un-noticed by Fastnet Line's management who we now know were too inexperienced to pick up on such an issue , but the MV Julia was also inspected by SLS transport consultants and the Port of Cork specialists who also made no mention of the fact that the freeheight of the car decks was too low for a mixed passenger / freight service (ironically it is ideal for a tourist / commuter service , which is not what Swansea - Cork is).
For now , West Cork Tourism Co-Op will form a new ferry operator to recommence Cork - Swansea in 2014 with a new company , new ship , new crew and a whole new approach , the 2 years during which there will be no service will demonstrate for itself why the route is important , the estimates of €100 million of trade lost and 6500 existing jobs now at risk will be given a chance to prove how accurate the economic forecasting of these agencies is.

CIE

serfboard wrote: »

I'm wondering was there any public money invested in this? If not, good. If so, then like regional airports and lesser-used train lines, there's no point in continuously putting money into little-used black holes

Apples/oranges comparison. The vast majority of railway closures happened under state ownership, not private.

corktina

thats a very long post to digest evil 1...

first impression: just as well you declared your interest!

Ted Mosby

roundymac wrote: »

That over night ferry should be regarded as a mini cruise and marketed like so. As JCabot said there were issues, she broke down in Cork harbour 20 mins after leaving the dockside, and spent a week in Swansea trying to sort out an issue with a door locking indicator that would'nt go out. This after she had lain idle at the city quay's from sept till march. There is a certain similarity between this and the western rail corridor.

Blindingly obvious as one is a railway line and the other is a ship.

corktina

not always that obvious when the Fergus floods the line though.

Evil-1

BenShermin wrote: »

!

In comparasion Irish Ferries bought a ship of a simular vintage (Oscar Wilde) for their French route and the pints are excellent, staff are great, food is second to none and the 2* cabins would put some 4* hotels I've been to on the continent to shame.

Which company would I rather travel with? How many people tried Fastnet and thought like me??

The MV Julia and MV Oscar Wilde have a lot in common , they were built around the same time , they both worked for the same company prior to arriving on the Irish Sea (Color Line) and were both finished and equipped by afore mentioned same company , both maintained by the same shipyard and interestingly were both until recently crewed by the same crewing agency , so its an interesting comparison , at least the MV Julia did not explode and burst into flames on its way back from mechanical work to correct a persistent fault and have to be dragged back to the UK mainland by emergency crews (Irish Ferries were VERY lucky that the ship had no passengers aboard at the time), for the record Irish Ferries aquired the Oscar Wilde at a very good price due in part to its past safety record , which is somewhat colourful and recommended reading.

seanmacc

Evil-1 wrote: »

The MV Julia and MV Oscar Wilde have a lot in common , they were built around the same time , they both worked for the same company prior to arriving on the Irish Sea (Color Line) and were both finished and equipped by afore mentioned same company , both maintained by the same shipyard and interestingly were both until recently crewed by the same crewing agency , so its an interesting comparison , at least the MV Julia did not explode and burst into flames on its way back from mechanical work to correct a persistent fault and have to be dragged back to the UK mainland by emergency crews (Irish Ferries were VERY lucky that the ship had no passengers aboard at the time), for the record Irish Ferries aquired the Oscar Wilde at a very good price due in part to its past safety record , which is somewhat colourful and recommended reading.

In fairness the Oscar Wilde had that problem when it left Falmouth following its schedueled drydock maintenence . The reason was shoddy mechanical work. In 2005 Irish Ferries Jonathan Swift lost one if its engines due to a similar incompetence when an engineer left a tool box in an engine compartment when it dry docked in Belfast. The engine took months to repair. All ships that operate on the southern cooridor have persistant mechanical faults intermitidely because of the nature of the rough crossings.

roundymac

@Evil-1 if you are serious about restarting the service, you'd be better off listening to what your former customers are saying on this tread instead of trying to score points off your rivals. Whatever problems Irish Ferries had with their ships they have sorted them out and are doing very good business unlike the Fasnet Line.

gTcHaT

Hi All,

I'm doing some investigation for a college assignment, would anyone be able to offer a perspective on "why there has been so few ferry routes offered out of Ireland" as I think I can recall as a kid (a long time ago there was more)?

Thanks for anything you can offer to get me on the right path

Typewriter

gTcHaT wrote: »

Hi All,

I'm doing some investigation for a college assignment, would anyone be able to offer a perspective on "why there has been so few ferry routes offered out of Ireland" as I think I can recall as a kid (a long time ago there was more)?

Thanks for anything you can offer to get me on the right path

seanmacc

gTcHaT wrote: »

Hi All,

I'm doing some investigation for a college assignment, would anyone be able to offer a perspective on "why there has been so few ferry routes offered out of Ireland" as I think I can recall as a kid (a long time ago there was more)?

Thanks for anything you can offer to get me on the right path

To put it simply, bloated inefficient state companies were run down, split up, sold off and the market equilibrium fell on to an imperfectly competitive market and a duopoly emerged with a couple of smaller competitors.
Ireland and Britain off loaded state run ferry companies and subsidies before the rest of Europe also. The high cost of establishing and running a ferry route especially now makes it difficult for a new player in the market. A new route run by one of the existing players just takes business from their existing routes.
Or you can simplify it and blame Thatcher.

gTcHaT

seanmacc wrote: »

To put it simply, bloated inefficient state companies were run down, split up, sold off and the market equilibrium fell on to an imperfectly competitive market and a duopoly emerged with a couple of smaller competitors.
Ireland and Britain off loaded state run ferry companies and subsidies before the rest of Europe also. The high cost of establishing and running a ferry route especially now makes it difficult for a new player in the market. A new route run by one of the existing players just takes business from their existing routes.
Or you can simplify it and blame Thatcher.

Thanks Seanmacc nice summary!

gTcHaT

Like!

Cedrus

gTcHaT wrote: »

Hi All,

I'm doing some investigation for a college assignment, would anyone be able to offer a perspective on "why there has been so few ferry routes offered out of Ireland" as I think I can recall as a kid (a long time ago there was more)?

Thanks for anything you can offer to get me on the right path

Do you have a timescale in mind,there's been different needs over the years?

This might be better as it's own thread.

munchkin_utd

the ferry is now gone and to have a new lease of life on the north sea!

Cork ferry embarks on new life as floating hotel
By Sean O’Riordan
Friday, March 30, 2012
It is a rather ignominious end for the ferry once billed as one of the jewels in Cork tourism industry.
The MV Julia will sail out of Cork tomorrow to embark on a new life — a floating dormitory for workers building and servicing offshore wind turbines in the North Sea.

It is the final chapter in the short and troubled life of the Fastnet Line, which was set up by West Cork Tourism Co-operative.

The 30-year-old ship, which had capacity for 1,860 passengers, made its maiden voyage on the Cork-Swansea route in Mar 2010.

She was bedeviled by mechanical problems in the first few days of operation, and in Nov 2011 the service was withdrawn due to higher-than-expected fuel prices.<snip>

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cork-ferry-embarks-on-new-life-as-floating-hotel-188891.html