Bike didn't start this morning :(

Zascar

Having some bike/battery problems and need some advice lads. When I got my 749 a few months ago I had some work done on it including a new battery. It has been perfect for many months until a while back when I left my parking light on and drained the battery completely. I jumped it but it did not work, charge did not stay. Found a battery charger and put it on overnight but the next day it was at Zero. Found out that the charger was too big for bike batteries - thought I had fried it, but I dropped it in to a bike shop, they charged it and it was fine - put it back in and it has been grand for the last 2 months.

However, the last few days when I turn on the ignition the battery meter was flashing - saying about 10.7. It would struggle and turn over sluggishly - but it would start after a few seconds. Yesterday it seemed like it was dead, but I switched it off and on again and it did start. This morning - probably because of the cold, it just could not give it what it needed to turn over. Balls.

So, I'm not sure if it's quite simply the battery is nackered and I need a new one - or if it just needs a proper charge - or if it might be something else. My commute to work is on 15 mins - might this be a reason for it slowl discharging?

So annoying - I always seem to have battery issues with cars and bikes. Anyone else have issues like this also?

Wossack

twins really need a tip top battery to turn over happily - particularly in the cold

If I was you, I'd get an optimate and keep her on it all the time, as, as you say, it doesnt sound like your daily commute is enough to keep the battery topped

Zascar

I would but the problem is the bike is down in an apartment underground carpark so nowhere to plug it in

What are my other options?

Cuddlesworth

Sounds like you ****ed it by over amping it with the car charger. Cold weather would accelerate the deterioration. Check to make sure the bike is charging the battery when running, then replace it. And buy a bike charger. I have two, one in work and one at home. In case I'm ever retarded enough to leave lights on.

Wossack

ah tricky with the underground parking yea.. similar situation in work? other option is pulling the battery and topping it maybe a couple of times a week (during the cold months at least), or taking a longer trip in and out to work

KamiKazi

Can you take the battery inside to charge it?

Your 15 minute drive to work isn't doing the battery any favours, might not be long enough for it to fully charge up after starting it.

I wouldn't say the battery is knackered, just the cold and short journeys taking their toll on it.

Zascar

Yeah I can, but its a bit of a pain as you have to take the fairing off to get the battery out, it's not a 2 minute job - but yes I can do it.

How long does it take driving to give the battery a decent charge? Maybe I need to start getting out at the weekends more. Even just one spin to give it a decent charge.

Really wish I knew if the battery was a bit fukd. Not sure of charging it with that big huge car charger would have damaged it. Maybe if I go to halfords and get a decent bike charger and take it out and leave it on overnight it might be ok. However if the battery is damaged then I'll need to get a new one anyway! Ugh..

Cedrus

15 minutes is a short run especially at this time of year. In heavy traffic? With lights on? You might need to take the long route home taking in a good stretch of open road to get the charge up.
Bump starting is safer from an electrical point of view than jump starting and isn't that hard to do with a bike, less chance of having electronics fail on you later. Is there a ramp in your underground car park and can you park at the top of it? if so that's the ideal way to bump it.
You've charged the battery twice? I'd give it a bit more effort before declaring it knackered. Usually it takes several deep cycles to damage a battery irretrievably.
It's a lot of hassle disconnecting it and reconnecting it in the morning but it will charge a lot better in the warmth than it could in an underground carpark.
Saying a charger is too big is a bit oversimplified, cheap chargers are just glorified transformers and if left unattended can fry the biggest batteries or can be used carefully to charge smaller ones. I have used the same charger for years to charge truck, boat, car and bike batteries, but it needs to be a stepped charger and needs to have trickle and float options.

thewintermute

Brand of battery, Hawker odyssey, I had one in and old flat twin for years and they are way better than a standard battery for cranking over a two-pot.Pricey, I'll admit, but last a lot longer and work a lot better. That's my 2c.

Paparazzo

thewintermute wrote: »

Brand of battery, Hawker odyssey, I had one in and old flat twin for years and they are way better than a standard battery for cranking over a two-pot.Pricey, I'll admit, but last a lot longer and work a lot better. That's my 2c.

Was just going to suggest an Odyssey. Tim Molloy in Fingals does them. Was all set to get one for my bike (bmw gs), but found out they're too big and you need to mod your saddle, which I couldn't be arsed doing.

They hold almost a full charge for well over a year, and cold weather doesn't effect them. Popular with the GS lads for turning over the the big twins. Think it was going to cost around 110 for mine, but their lifespan is supposed to be double a normal battery.

Zascar

Thanks lads. Yeah a 15 minute ride is not enough - its done ok to get this long - and in this cold spell I knew it would give up. Who knows it might start when i get home and I could take it for a long spin. Would it need a full hour of a ride to charge properly? The weather will get warmer and I'll be out on it at the weekends so maybe it will be grand for now. If I do change it I'll get the Oddyssey - if I can, its a very tight fit where it goes right now.

Can anyone recommend what type of charger I should get? I just read in the manual the battery is a "12v 10A Ah" and it says you should charge it at 0.9A for 5-10 hours.

Are any of these any good? http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd?srch=motorbike+charger&department=all&action=search&storeId=11101&catalogId=15551&langId=-1#tab=1&pg=1&ppp=10&sb=sor%7C%7CPrice%7C%7C0&vw=list - I need one asap as I'm carless and my bike is my only mode of transport for now.

Wossack

picked up an oxford brand optimiser (called an oximiser..) from cotters bout this time last year. Think I paid about 30-40 bills.

http://www.mandp.co.uk/productinfo/536540/Workshop/Battery-Chargers/Oxford

Looks to be the same model

Its basic, but works grand. Plug it in and forget about it - no buttons/switches or anything to set. It also came with some wire that routes the terminals of the battery to a plug you can attach somewhere (mines on the rear numberplate hanger), so you dont need to remove fairing to get at the battery

Cedrus

Zascar wrote: »

Are any of these any good? http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd?srch=motorbike+charger&department=all&action=search&storeId=11101&catalogId=15551&langId=-1#tab=1&pg=1&ppp=10&sb=sor%7C%7CPrice%7C%7C0&vw=list - I need one asap as I'm carless and my bike is my only mode of transport for now.

The third and fourth ones there look like they're more for machines that are parked up in a garage for months on end. First and second ones would do you. Personally, I prefer the second because it has manual selector switches which I can't see on the first one, but I'd like it even more if it had an inline meter as well.

As a couple of others above have said the optimate is a good well known one.

Please Kill Me

Zascar wrote: »

Are any of these any good? http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd?srch=motorbike+charger&department=all&action=search&storeId=11101&catalogId=15551&langId=-1#tab=1&pg=1&ppp=10&sb=sor%7C%7CPrice%7C%7C0&vw=list - I need one asap as I'm carless and my bike is my only mode of transport for now.

Yeah, they're fine. I have the one for 39.99 about 2 years now and does the job just fine. I've used it on my bike, the track bike, her bike and even the car at one point! :pac:

Pigeon Reaper

. Maybe you could get a large capacity battery that you could connect up to an accessible jump point on the bike to start it up. It's a bit of hassle but easier than stripping fairings. Any large twin is hard on the battery and the alternator will need a while to recharge them.

amacca

Zascar wrote: »

Can anyone recommend what type of charger I should get? I just read in the manual the battery is a "12v 10A Ah" and it says you should charge it at 0.9A for 5-10 hours.

If its any good to you I keep the 999 and 748 on trickle charge with an optimate4 and I've had zero problems this winter....although the recent cold has decreased the the output voltage by 0.1 when the battery is disconnected....have another one wired to a timer and the garage door so it charges another battery every time I open and close the garage.

not being able to plug the thing in at night is a pain in the hole + if you buy two batteries its a ten to fifteen min job to fumble around with allen keys take of fairing disconnect battery...reconnect new one etc

have you checked out if they make jumper packs that are compatible with bike batteries?. (never had to myself but some company must).................you could leave pigtails connected to the terminals of the battery in the bike and if its hard to start of a morning...connect the jumper pack through the plug and it should crank ok.

T954

Pity you can't plug it in where you park it up! All suggestions above are good and like the previous post I use an optimate but mines the 3+ got it about 4 years ago and use it all the time and have hd no hassle. The trip to work is nowhere near enough to keep the battery happy. Short spins don't give it enough of a charge.

Zascar

I tried it again today when I got home. It would not even turn over, it was just clicking. This morning it was turning over but not starting - but the battery seemed to drain completely over the day - how would this happen?

colm_c

Battery looks like it's fecked.

I'm running two bikes all year, no optimate or other charger, and only 20 mins commute on each every-other-day. I haven't gone on a long spin on either bike since September.

I've got an Odessey in the GS and a MotoBatt in the KTM, they both start first time on the button everytime. Odessey is in since last Xmas and put the MotoBatt in the KTM when I bought it last May.

Some of the batteries from dealers/motor factors aren't great TBH. If you get a cheap battery expect to replace it in 6-12 months if you're not using it for long spins.

Check to see whether an oddessy or a motobatt (Yellow battery) will fit your bike, and buy one online, you should get one for under 100 STG in the UK.

T954

Either you drained to battery when you tried this morning or there is something draining the battery...this could be anything really!!! If you have an alarm thats first place to check...if you turned the motor over with a weak battery the smallest draw will finish it over the day. Or the battery was weakened by you turing the motor this morning and that is what finished it. Check the voltage anything less than 12 volts is not great. A few motor factors shops will check the state of the battery for you. Trickle charging is probably the only way to go....or increase the length of your journey.

uncle betty

Zascar wrote: »

This morning it was turning over but not starting - but the battery seemed to drain completely over the day - how would this happen?

It is possible that there's a drain on the battery.

If you have time and inclination to do it, before you spring for a new battery, here's a quick test to see if there is some kind of unwanted load...


Ignition off.

Disconnect the battery negative.

Set a meter to read amps.

One probe to the battery negative terminal, the other probe to the lug of the negative cable you disconnected.

Any reading other than zero is not good.

To locate the source - either unplug accessories individually, or else remove the fuses one at a time. When the meter reading drops to zero you've found the problem circuit.

---

Good luck, hope you get it sorted soon.

Zascar

Thanks for your help guys. When I bought this bike it was giving battery issues - so I got the battery replaced with a decent one and I was also told that the regulator was fukd too so I got a new one of those. it's been fine for months since. I did notice over the past few days that the voltage was dropping as low as 10.7 - but did start with that once at least.

I'm getting a battery charger today but should I even bother or should I just get a new battery? There is no alarm only an immobiliser so not sure if anything would be suddenly pulling a charge out of nowhere. I'd say most likely my short spin is not enough for it. I might see if I can have a go at testing that load anyway thanks.

How do I find out the model of battery I need and then I'll try to see what is the best type I can get?
Cheers

KamiKazi

Zascar wrote: »

How do I find out the model of battery I need and then I'll try to see what is the best type I can get?
Cheers

Try http://wemoto.com

Cuddlesworth

If you stick a 15-20 amp car charger on a bike battery you shorten the lifespan of it considerably. On top of that if the battery spend a significant portion of its life below 60% it also shortens it considerably. I still reckon its the battery.

On a side note, would driving at higher revs on the trip into and out of work not charge the battery up? Maybe after five minutes, drop a gear and have it sitting in the 6-7k range?

RosieJoe

When looking for prices you should check with mattkeane. He is a member on most of the other forums and he has Yuasa batteries at very good prices, based in Dublin.

uncle betty

Zascar wrote: »

How do I find out the model of battery I need and then I'll try to see what is the best type I can get?
Cheers

I'd say any dealer would have battery manufacturers' catalogues that they can refer to with the manufacturer's recommendation for any given bike.

I just had a look on Yuasa's site http://www.yuasabatteries.com/motorcycle.php#top it isn't a complete list of every bike on the road by any means, but you might find your bike there.

Cedrus

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

On a side note, would driving at higher revs on the trip into and out of work not charge the battery up?

I was advised to do this years ago, the logic being that if the alternator is spun faster it will do more work and you have more electricity. But, I'm not sure if it all gets stopped at the regulator anyway.

uncle betty

Cedrus wrote: »

I was advised to do this years ago, the logic being that if the alternator is spun faster it will do more work and you have more electricity. But, I'm not sure if it all gets stopped at the regulator anyway.

Yes it will work.

The point is that the alternator produces power in line with the revs. More rpm leads to more alternator output.

The thing is that there is a minimum rpm that you need to get up to before the alternator takes over from the battery. Below that level, the battery is supplying the system. That could be say, 2000 rpm and below.

Above that, and within a certain range of rpm, the alternator is making enough power to both supply the system, and charge the battery with any surplus output.

So the faster you spin the alternator, the more output you are making, and the more quickly you charge the battery.

The regulator really is only there to look after the other extreme, ie when you're going at such high rpm that the power output is capable of damaging the system.

That's what happens when the regulator fails, the battery gets cooked.

On a 12v bike, the regulator will keep the charging voltage to a max of around 14.5 volts give or take, even if the rpm is way above that required for that output.

Cedrus

uncle betty wrote: »

Yes it will work.

Thanks Uncle Betty! I've always done it myself and it made sense, but I stopped passing on the advice because I couldn't answer the regulator question.

T954

uncle betty wrote: »

Yes it will work.

The point is that the alternator produces power in line with the revs. More rpm leads to more alternator output.

The thing is that there is a minimum rpm that you need to get up to before the alternator takes over from the battery. Below that level, the battery is supplying the system. That could be say, 2000 rpm and below.

Above that, and within a certain range of rpm, the alternator is making enough power to both supply the system, and charge the battery with any surplus output.

So the faster you spin the alternator, the more output you are making, and the more quickly you charge the battery.

The regulator really is only there to look after the other extreme, ie when you're going at such high rpm that the power output is capable of damaging the system.

That's what happens when the regulator fails, the battery gets cooked.

On a 12v bike, the regulator will keep the charging voltage to a max of around 14.5 volts give or take, even if the rpm is way above that required for that output.

I didn't know that. I thought once the engine was running the alternator took over. Yes the more revs you do the more output from the alternator and then the regulator takes over. If you check the voltage at a healthy battery you will get a reading of 12v however when you start the bike you get a jump to 14v indicating that the alternator is doing some work when the bike is at tick over. Looks like I might be wrong on that

Squ

Came upon this thread after a search as I have similar problems.. Any recommendations of a good charger and where to get it today?
Cheers.

T954

Squ wrote: »

Came upon this thread after a search as I have similar problems.. Any recommendations of a good charger and where to get it today?
Cheers.

I've used an optimate 3+ for about four years now and its excellent. I think the newer one is the optimate 4 it does more than mine but its got great reviews. As for where to get one, it depends on where you are.

miller50841

Squ wrote: »

Came upon this thread after a search as I have similar problems.. Any recommendations of a good charger and where to get it today?
Cheers.

Try Bikeworld or any other motorcycle shop near you but quick as some don't stay open all day. Get 1 with has trickle charge

miller50841

Zascar wrote: »

Having some bike/battery problems and need some advice lads. When I got my 749 a few months ago I had some work done on it including a new battery. It has been perfect for many months until a while back when I left my parking light on and drained the battery completely. I jumped it but it did not work, charge did not stay. Found a battery charger and put it on overnight but the next day it was at Zero. Found out that the charger was too big for bike batteries - thought I had fried it, but I dropped it in to a bike shop, they charged it and it was fine - put it back in and it has been grand for the last 2 months.

However, the last few days when I turn on the ignition the battery meter was flashing - saying about 10.7. It would struggle and turn over sluggishly - but it would start after a few seconds. Yesterday it seemed like it was dead, but I switched it off and on again and it did start. This morning - probably because of the cold, it just could not give it what it needed to turn over. Balls.

So, I'm not sure if it's quite simply the battery is nackered and I need a new one - or if it just needs a proper charge - or if it might be something else. My commute to work is on 15 mins - might this be a reason for it slowl discharging?

So annoying - I always seem to have battery issues with cars and bikes. Anyone else have issues like this also?

Hi if you have trouble with a power source in the bike shed look at a solar panel that would be strong enough to charge in place or as other said just take battery out to give a good charge but would recomend getting new battery and start again

Zascar

I went and bought this charger in Halfords yesterday - its aparently automatic and it has a switch for "Bike" and one for "Sealed Batteries" also - so I assume it pretty good. I charged the battery last night so I'll go put it back in the bike later - I'm sure she will start I just need to keep an eye on the numbers etc - and if the voltage drops over the next few days or she's sluggish starting, I'll just get a new battery.

The one that is in there is CT12B-BS made by Unibat - I'm told the Yuasa ones are good but I'll be looking for the ones mentioned above if I do change it

Hotblack Desiato

Everyone who owns a bike should get one of the ten euro chargers next time Lidl have bike gear in.

I've a commute of 25 mins each way, and twin dipped headlights that can't be switched off, the battery slowly loses charge unless I give it a charge every weekend or two.

The Lidl charger can be left permanently connected to a stored bike, it won't overcharge the battery. The charger comes with crocodile clips but I have it connected to a power socket on the bike.

Squ

T954 wrote: »

As for where to get one, it depends on where you are.

i'm some gobsh1te!! Thanks

uncle betty

T954 wrote: »

I didn't know that. I thought once the engine was running the alternator took over. Yes the more revs you do the more output from the alternator and then the regulator takes over. If you check the voltage at a healthy battery you will get a reading of 12v however when you start the bike you get a jump to 14v indicating that the alternator is doing some work when the bike is at tick over. Looks like I might be wrong on that

You have a good point there.

I just found a note that I made in a Haynes manual I have for an XJ 750 - it says

''the average battery voltage of c.14.5 volts is dependent on the engine rpm staying at or above 2k rpm. Below 2k rpm, the rotor isn't rotating quite fast enough, and therefore you get lower stator output.''

Obviously a quote I got from somewhere. But quite different to what I wrote above.

I must get stuck into this later on tonight, as I'm starting to have doubts now

Sure it's no harm to rethink these things through anyway, we're all learning

T954

uncle betty wrote: »

You have a good point there.

I just found a note that I made in a Haynes manual I have for an XJ 750 - it says

''the average battery voltage of c.14.5 volts is dependent on the engine rpm staying at or above 2k rpm. Below 2k rpm, the rotor isn't rotating quite fast enough, and therefore you get lower stator output.''

Obviously a quote I got from somewhere. But quite different to what I wrote above.

I must get stuck into this later on tonight, as I'm starting to have doubts now

Sure it's no harm to rethink these things through anyway, we're all learning

No harm at all. I'll check it out myself...well for my own bike anyway and see what the story is.

Cedrus

ninja900 wrote: »

I've a commute of 25 mins each way, and twin dipped headlights that can't be switched off, the battery slowly loses charge unless I give it a charge every weekend or two.

I just put a toggle switch on the fairing so I could turn off the headlamp during daylight if the battery was struggling in the winter, left the tailight alone because it was such a lower wattage it wasn't as bad a drain.

Cuddlesworth

ninja900 wrote: »

Everyone who owns a bike should get one of the ten euro chargers next time Lidl have bike gear in.

I've a commute of 25 mins each way, and twin dipped headlights that can't be switched off, the battery slowly loses charge unless I give it a charge every weekend or two.

The Lidl charger can be left permanently connected to a stored bike, it won't overcharge the battery. The charger comes with crocodile clips but I have it connected to a power socket on the bike.

WTF? There is no way a 25 minute ride both ways should drain the battery in any way unless there is something seriously wrong with the bike. A push bike could power two dipped lights.

Hotblack Desiato

55 watts each - you wouldn't power that with a pushbike
Plus an alarm/immobilizer on the bike
Plus heated grips in the winter.
It's not 25 minutes of steady running, it's stop-start. Some mornings 10 minutes of that is spent waiting at red lights. If there's any kind of slope, then I have to cover the brake, that's 2x21 watts as well.
Motor is a 955 triple and it's happiest cruising between 2-3000 rpm, totally different riding style to my old 'rev the nuts off it' CBR6 You can happily rev the nuts off the Triumph, but only in very short bursts, unless you've no fear of losing your licence...

Zascar

Lads my mate who knows everything there is to know about electrics etc recommends these chargers by CTEK: http://www.ctek.nu/gb/en/chargers/12v

They do everything including recovering damaged batteries.

I'm going to get this one I think: http://www.ctek.nu/gb/en/chargers/MXS%205.0
Amazon Reviews: http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B004ZWV1JI

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHSI_qHOI4U

Zascar

Lads she was sluggish starting this morning so I think you were right an the battery is nackered. Need to get a new one now. The Model is YT12B-BS - I'm told Yuasa is a good replacement but I just want to get the best one I can.

Where in (south) dublin can I go to get one? I could order one oneline and get it delivered for a decent price, will save me the hassle - http://www.ebay.ie/itm/GENUINE-YUASA-YT12B-BS-MOTORBIKE-QUAD-JETSKI-BATTERY-/130494954517?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e621afc15#ht_1658wt_905 however it might take a while for delivery.

Cheers

RosieJoe

I've PM'd you Matt's number.

They have a couple of places around but I got my one from here:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=53.321284,-6.362884&num=1&t=m&z=19

The place is at the end of beech road, it's a truck parts place.

Edit: Just priced the battery from a thread in Biker and last September it was priced at €45.

Zascar

I have been calling Ducati Dublin every day for the last few days, sending emails and leaving voicemails - not a things back from them. Really annoys me - If I did not call my customers back asap in work I'd get a whipping. I don't understand how people can run a business when they do not respond to sales enquires.

Anyway I called Moto Technic in Kimmage and spoke to a really nice guy called Robbie who was very helpful and he's getting me a Yuasa which is the only battery he recommends for these bikes. I've heard lots of good things about these guys so I'll definitely be using them again

Cuddlesworth

Zascar wrote: »

I have been calling Ducati Dublin every day for the last few days, sending emails and leaving voicemails - not a things back from them. Really annoys me - If I did not call my customers back asap in work I'd get a whipping. I don't understand how people can run a business when they do not respond to sales enquires.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76959704&postcount=46

I don't think they are in business any more.

colm_c

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76959704&postcount=46

I don't think they are in business any more.

Jaysis, wonder if there'll be any cheap Ducatis, Aprilias, Alfas, Fiats or Maseratis going!