Help! Hemmed in by forestry?

brynne

Hello, I'm new here. My husband and I have just built a new house near Inagh on the site of the farmhouse where his father was born. We've just moved in. It is a lovely spot, with a fantastic uninterrupted view of The Burren, 25km to the North. On a clear day we can even see the Connemara Mountains, 90km away as the crow flies. Of course, we don't get too many days like that at this time of year, but it doesn't seem to matter. Whatever the weather, short of thick fog, even the view over adjacent farmland is always a joy.

Unfortunately, it seems that it won't be for very much longer. Our neighbour has just sold a 36-acre parcel of land, directly below our house, for forestry. We already have forestry close to the house on two sides, and I am truly gutted to think that we will eventually be hemmed in on three sides - with no view at all. Everyone who comes to the house comments on our spectacular view. It would be really heart-breaking to lose it.

I don't want to sound like a nimby, but does anyone know what the rules are regarding the rights of neighbouring property owners? Obviously, we are aware of the economic importance of forestry and we can't prevent the new owner planting his land. But if he plants the whole 36 acres, it wouldn't take the trees to be fully mature by any means before they completely blotted out our view.

Does anyone know if there is any sort of planning consent governing forestry? I cannot seem to find any reference to forestry planting on the Council site.

Thanks in advance.

Clareman

Welcome to boards brynne, sorry to hear about your issues, I think the Construction and Planning section might be able to help out a bit more, perhaps the forestry section might help as well, so I'll move it to the P&C section first.

@Mods please feel free to move it back to Clare or the Forestry section if you don't think it fits here

sydthebeat

there is some information here for you.
also read here particularly

"Therefore, from a situation where forestry was exempt, it is now necessary to get planning permission “and” undertake an EIS for afforestation involving an area of over 50 hectares (or only 10 if the work involves replacing broadleafs with conifers).

But i would always advise talking to your local area planner, or planning official for their specific requirements.

Its quite possible an Environmental Impact Assessment would be required for such a development.

BryanF

brynne wrote: »

it wouldn't take the trees to be fully mature by any means before they completely blotted out our view.

is your house anyway elevated in-relation to this parcel of land? as in could you purchase/discuss alternative use for an area closest to your house in order to protect/retain your view..

as syd says there may be enviro studies required especially if there is a water course or bogs nearby

brynne

sydthebeat wrote: »

there is some information here for you.
also read here particularly

"Therefore, from a situation where forestry was exempt, it is now necessary to get planning permission “and” undertake an EIS for afforestation involving an area of over 50 hectares (or only 10 if the work involves replacing broadleafs with conifers).

But i would always advise talking to your local area planner, or planning official for their specific requirements.

Its quite possible an Environmental Impact Assessment would be required for such a development.

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, it doesn't look as if we have a leg to stand on. The parcel of land currently has no trees on it (hence our lovely view) and is only 14 hectares, so it would seem that no EIS/EIA is required.

greenfingers89

prime example of nimby-ism even if you dont mean it.
too many people say to the likes of me "i dont mind trees but just not in that place"
99.9% of us use timber in one form or another or use products/services dependant on timber.
anyway to answer your question........

an environmental impact assessment won't be required as the proposed area is less than 50 hectares (125 acres)...despite whats said by other posters

the "planning" process for afforestation will require approval to plant from the forest service, department of agriculture (regardless of grant aid being sought after or not)
the application will be made known to any relevant bodies that may have an interest in the locality eg. National Parks & Wildlife Service, Fisheries board, authorities over archaeological interest etc
if the site is deemed to be in the county development plan under the designation of area of High Scenic Value then the council will be able to give their reccomendations regarding the permission
once all the relevant bodies give their 2 cents on it the forest service will make a decision.

if you contact the council you should be able to find out if the area is of high scenic value...you could complain to them when you're at it i suppose

you could also contact the forest service and complain to them

but remember....... an objection from a member of the public needs to have a decent reason (it will effect my view for a third of the rotation length is not classed as a decent reason)......i know your disapointed but if every application was stopped because someone didnt want it to happen then there wouldn't be any forestry at all!:o

the first thing you should do is contact the forester involved and see if the site is close to being approved, only lodged for approval or whatever.

i can guarantee you if its not approved yet then the sale isn't gone through yet so if you were in a position you might be able to buy part of the site to allow a decent gap in the forestry to preserve some or most of the view

in short it is highly unlikely you will get your own way on this or that big compromises will me made with your interests in mind,

forester

brynne

Greenfingers: Appreciate your points about nimby-ism and the need for timber. But, as I said, what we find hardest about this is that we already have forestry within a couple of hundred metres on two sides, and now face the prospect of the area in front of us about to be planted.

... an objection from a member of the public needs to have a decent reason (it will effect my view for a third of the rotation length is not classed as a decent reason)......

We face the prospect of being hemmed in on three sides by trees. That seems more like three quarters to me, but I cannot find a reliable definition of "rotation length" in this context, so may be I have misunderstood you. The field behind us is also for sale and, from what we understand, there is nothing to stop a new owner planting that as well. The total area of forest would probably be then over 50 hectares, but because the applications have been submitted at different times by different owners, we could potentially be left with small plot in the middle of a pine forest and absolutely nothing to be done about it. If this were your house, I have no doubt you would want to complain too.

BryanF: Our house is elevated and there is a steep escarpment a few metres from us which would prevent trees being planted directly in front of the house, i.e. it would probably take 10 years before grew to a point that they were visible above the escarpment. Even so, below us there is a small rise in the land with a few native conifers growing on it. This little group of mature trees is only about 30ft tall, but still tall enough to obsure the view even from our elevated position, which doesn't auger well for a forest of fast-growing spruce trees.

We could make an offer for a section of the land, but I doubt the new owner would be keen to give it up - given the financial incentives available for planting. We might do better to wait until the 20-year old trees to the West/North West are cut down and make an offer for that land instead ...

Thanks all for your insight.

sydthebeat

brynne wrote: »

..... we already have forestry within a couple of hundred metres on two sides, and now face the prospect of the area in front of us about to be planted...

*ahem*
"within a couple of hundred meters"... ???!?!?!

i seriously cant agree with your description of being "hemmed in" by forestry now.

you cannot control all development within sightlines of your views. and there is no right to view enshrined in irish law.

greenfingers89

sydthebeat wrote: »

*ahem*
"within a couple of hundred meters"... ???!?!?!

i seriously cant agree with your description of being "hemmed in" by forestry now.

you cannot control all development within sightlines of your views. and there is no right to view enshrined in irish law.

completely agree, hence why i might come across as harsh in this thread.....most forest inspectors nowadays also impose a 60m setback between buildings and forestry.

for the record brynne, i wouldnt object in your situation. i might be harsh (in this thread) but im not a hypocrit......and anyway the closer forestry is to my house the less commuting for me to work!:D

its quite possible when your house was built someone was having a moan about their view

brynne

sydthebeat wrote: »

*ahem*
"within a couple of hundred meters"... ???!?!?!

i seriously cant agree with your description of being "hemmed in" by forestry now.

you cannot control all development within sightlines of your views. and there is no right to view enshrined in irish law.

As I explained to Greenfingers, the discovery that our neighbour's land had been sold to/for forestry came as a bit of a shock on Wednesday evening. I suppose what surprised us was that forestry is exempt from planning regulations and doesn't fall under the remit of the local authority. So be it. We have now calmed down and accepted the situation is not actually the disaster we initially thought. We won't be complaining to anyone.

Re my comment about feeling hemmed in, just so as you don't think too harshly of me, I'm crap with estimating distance. I should remember from our house plans exactly how far we are from existing forestry, but it's a lot closer than 200 metres.

This is the view from our bedroom window. This plantation is nearly 20 years old. Luckily, as the trees are planted at the bottom of a steep escarpment, we can only see the tree tops. The truth is that it will take several years before the new planting is tall enough to block the view from the living room ... and by that time these ones will have been harvested.

sydthebeat

byrnne,

i can only reply to information given, so sorry if it seemed harsh.

1865

Hi,

I'm not sure of your location or circumstances but is the land within a protected European site or very close to one. If so the development will need to be, at least, screened for Appropriate Assessment and will probably need one. All of these documents have to be made available to you - including the reasons why any decision was made.

I suggest that you look into this to see ifyou have a case here but if you are "surrounded" by forestry at the moment it might not make a difference.

http://www.npws.ie/planning/appropriateassessment/

1865

and this link

http://www.birdwatchireland.ie/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=aeLSNXL11hU=&tabid=250

brynne

1865 wrote: »

Hi,

I'm not sure of your location or circumstances but is the land within a protected European site or very close to one. If so the development will need to be, at least, screened for Appropriate Assessment and will probably need one. All of these documents have to be made available to you - including the reasons why any decision was made.

I suggest that you look into this to see ifyou have a case here but if you are "surrounded" by forestry at the moment it might not make a difference.

http://www.npws.ie/planning/appropriateassessment/

Many thanks for this information and to all who have posted in response to my original panic.

I have now managed to speak to the Forester to whom approval has been granted. He has suggested a meeting and reassured me that the rules re proximity to dwellings are much stricter now than they were 20 years ago, when the existing forestry was planted - way closer than they are allowed to plant now.

MOSSAD

Nowhere in Irish law are you entitled to a view.
If you want to keep the view you have, buy the land.
People have to make a living-spare a thought for whoever sold/bought the land.Work with what you have. There is a minimum setback distance from buildings for grant-approved plantations. Maybe you could talk to the forester involved and ask if perhaps he's consider planting a smaller colourful broadleaf such as rowan in your line of sight-this may be a good thing for all involved, and perhaps suggest to the forester that you'd be a good neighbour and report dumping/fires etc.