Van tax question

GTDolanator

i have a berlingo,havent had it on the road in roughly two years.It was always used as a private vehicle with commercial tax,whats the crack with taxing it now am i still able to tax it commercially?or DO I HAVE TO tax it privatley?i no i should tax it privatley but thats not what im asking

cheers

ted1

Your asking about tax evasion which is illegal.

GTDolanator

ted1 wrote: »

Your asking about tax evasion which is illegal.

i never once stated i was actually going to tax it

corktina

you always should have had it taxed privately if you werent using it solely for commercial purposes. They are being more active in investigating such use now than they were.

ted1

GTDolanator wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Your asking about tax evasion which is illegal.

i never once stated i was actually going to tax it

And I never said you were going to hence the evasion of tax.

dave45dave

ted1 wrote: »

Your asking about tax evasion which is illegal.

I drive an X5 which is taxed commercially and used soely for private use. I dont see a problem. Just give them your pps number as a vat number. Job done;)

dave45dave

dave45dave wrote: »

I drive an X5 which is taxed commercially and used (solely) for private use. I dont see a problem. Just give them your pps number as a vat number. Job done;)

sorry my spelling is crap

bryaner

ted1 wrote: »

Your asking about tax evasion which is illegal.

Everyone meet ted who has never done anything illegal in his life ever..

bryaner

And do what Dave says a lot of my mates do the same..

corktina

until they catch you...

focus_mad

Yes is the short answer.

No is the answer you want to hear.

GTDolanator

so yous are telling me that people are actually using their pps number as a vat number and getting away with it?i find that hard to believe

Gophur

GTDolanator wrote: »

so yous are telling me that people are actually using their pps number as a vat number and getting away with it?i find that hard to believe

Business people who are not VAT registered have to use their PPS number for the necessary declaration. It's not a case of "getting away" with anything.

The law was clarified last year. Any private use of a commercial vehicle necessitates private motor tax to be paid. It's your decision whether to abide by that law, or not.

Gophur

Gophur wrote: »

Business people who are not VAT registered have to use their PPS number for the necessary declaration. It's not a case of "getting away" with anything.

The law was clarified last year. Any private use of a commercial vehicle necessitates private motor tax to be paid. It's your decision whether to abide by that law, or not.

If you are caught using a commercially taxed vehicle for private use what would be the consequences? and how could you be caught?

BronsonTB

Landon Squeaking Orange wrote: »

If you are caught using a commercially taxed vehicle for private use what would be the consequences? and how could you be caught?

When stopped at a check point. If the gaurd is of the opinion you have the incorrect tax displayed for the vehicle being driven. (ie If you can't prove van is used for commerial purposes). Then they can take the van, you must then pay the difference in the tax rate, pay the daily storage fine & if they really want, they can take you to court for deception but once you pay the correct tax they are usually happy.

As stated above if you don't use your van comercially you should not be paying the commerical rate. But like everything else, people break the law everyday & they can't catch everyone. They do the best they can with what they've got.

And you will always have a someone saying they've never been stopped & never had a issue....but they know full well they are breaking the law.

Not all counties are enforcing this consistantly but slowly getting more coverage.

If you do, you take your chances & please take your punishment if caught.

dgt

Gingernuts31 wrote: »

How is that possible when you have to be registered for VAT to tax a commercial vehicle now? VAT numbers start with IE and they don't end with a letter like your PPS does.

It's what you use on the declaration form if you don't have a vat no. If you want a van and don't have a vat no, you use your pps no instead

mullingar

BronsonTB wrote: »

When stopped at a check point. If the gaurd is of the opinion you have the incorrect tax displayed for the vehicle being driven. (ie If you can't prove van is used for commerial purposes). Then they can take the van, you must then pay the difference in the tax rate, pay the daily storage fine & if they really want, they can take you to court for deception but once you pay the correct tax they are usually happy.

As stated above if you don't use your van comercially you should not be paying the commerical rate. But like everything else, people break the law everyday & they can't catch everyone. They do the best they can with what they've got.

And you will always have a someone saying they've never been stopped & never had a issue....but they know full well they are breaking the law.

Not all counties are enforcing this consistantly but slowly getting more coverage.

If you do, you take your chances & please take your punishment if caught.

I dont think thats 100% true. AFAIK, the Gards job to to ensure that the disc is in date.

Its the Co. Council's job to ensure that the vehicle is in the correct tax category, so if you are dodging the correct tax, its a bye-law you are breaking.


Open to correction though......

Gingernuts31

dgt wrote: »

It's what you use on the declaration form if you don't have a vat no. If you want a van and don't have a vat no, you use your pps no instead

But thats only if your self employed right? I mean ordinary Joe soap who works in a shop but doesn't own the shop or use his van for stock going to/from the shop shouldn't be entitled to pay commerical tax on a vehicle that he uses purely for social purposes as he isn't self employed. Am I right?

BronsonTB

mullingar wrote: »

I dont think thats 100% true. AFAIK, the Gards job to to ensure that the disc is in date.

Its the Co. Council's job to ensure that the vehicle is in the correct tax category, so if you are dodging the correct tax, its a bye-law you are breaking.

Open to correction though......

The gaurds can & they do check the tax category as well. They are loosing revenue over this at the end of the day.
Co Council's don't man checkpoints but if you want to chance it, by all means. Do let us know if you end up in court & win based on your bye-law assumption. I will then be quite happy to stand corrected (And I'll also have a courtcase for future Van Taxing queries)

And also a revenue officer can also check your tax at a customs check point & do the same if they feel the correct VRT was not applied to the commerical vehicle when it was first registered.
(Ie Having back seats on a commerical van but only paying the commecial rate excl crew cabs)

But this is diviating from the OP. If it's used private then it SHOULD be taxed private. PERIOD.

BronsonTB

Gingernuts31 wrote: »

But thats only if your self employed right? I mean ordinary Joe soap who works in a shop but doesn't own the shop or use his van for stock going to/from the shop shouldn't be entitled to pay commerical tax on a vehicle that he uses purely for social purposes as he isn't self employed. Am I right?

Correct....
If used for private use it should be taxed private.
If used for commercial purposes then tax it commercial.

Anyone can tax a van commercial as long as it's used commercially. Self employed or otherwise!

gbee

GTDolanator wrote: »

so yous are telling me that people are actually using their pps number as a vat number and getting away with it?i find that hard to believe

It's an urban myth.

If you've been taxing a van for yonks, they don't ask any questions at all, "thank you sir, have a nice day"

And always remember that it was the tax office's OWN fault for not accessing compliance when customers simply 'asked' for and were given commercial tax for a private car.

It should never have happened but once one got it it spread throughout the lazy service to endemic proportions.

The laws regarding commercial and private tax where not changed, they always were in effect, but due to an error in the Motor Tax office it was simply ignored.

I drove back in the day when I had to park up my commercial at 8pm ...

Gingernuts31

Spoke to a man I know in my town who uses his van for work but he is not self employed and when he tried to tax it in Laois co,co they told him he either paid private or registered for VAT. He paid the private but he then found out guys who work with him have been taxing their vans in Offaly and tipperary just using their pps no's.

He complained to Laois co co and she said she did know about it but that next year it was all going to revenue. Revenue would be checking the people who taxed their commercials using their pps numbers and would be contacting them about taxing their vehicles illegally.

I had a feeling it wouldn't go un-noticed but at the end of the day the tax office's shouldn't be allowing people to tax a vehicle using their pps numbers. There is a big difference in them in that VAT starts with IE and ends in a number and PPS starts with a number and ends with a letter so it is untimatly the tax office fault but even so the owners know its illegal in the sence that you must be registered for VAT. Not everyone who is using the PPS is self employed so they should be taxed privatly.

O.A.P

Gingernuts31 wrote: »

Spoke to a man I know in my town who uses his van for work but he is not self employed and when he tried to tax it in Laois co,co they told him he either paid private or registered for VAT. He paid the private but he then found out guys who work with him have been taxing their vans in Offaly and tipperary just using their pps no's.

He complained to Laois co co and she said she did know about it but that next year it was all going to revenue. Revenue would be checking the people who taxed their commercials using their pps numbers and would be contacting them about taxing their vehicles illegally.

I had a feeling it wouldn't go un-noticed but at the end of the day the tax office's shouldn't be allowing people to tax a vehicle using their pps numbers. There is a big difference in them in that VAT starts with IE and ends in a number and PPS starts with a number and ends with a letter so it is untimatly the tax office fault but even so the owners know its illegal in the sence that you must be registered for VAT. Not everyone who is using the PPS is self employed so they should be taxed privatly.

I dont agree I have a car for private use and a commerical landrover for my work but I am not vat registered.
Are you saying that I should be forced to tax the landrover privately also ?

Gingernuts31

O.A.P wrote: »

I dont agree I have a car for private use and a commerical landrover for my work but I am not vat registered.
Are you saying that I should be forced to tax the landrover privately also ?

The guy I was talking to said the woman in the tax office told him if he could get a letter from his employer to say he uses the van for work, for carrying work equip etc then once the tax office received that letter they would put him on commercial and the diff between private and commercial tax he paid would be refunded to him. BUT he had to tax it privately before he complained that it was different in each county. If you use it for work you should either be VAT registered or have a letter from yuor employer to say its needed for work even if it is your van. But there is the law in that says you can't drive a commercial work vehicle unless it is for work.

This new law was brought in to stop people just using vans for nicksers. So in other words the "man with van" adverts that are getting paid for their work but not paying tax on it. The whole idea was you have to be registered for VAT and that is what he was told the tax office would be clamping down on next year, people paying commercial tax using their PPS numbers which is in fact illegal now as you must be registered for VAT. It is a bit stupid considering you must ONLY register for VAT if you expect your income will be over a certain threshold.

It should be you have to register for VAT if you have a commercial regardless of income. You can claim your VAT back on diesel then and submit your returns. If you didn't make enough then you don't pay. Thats in my opinion anyway.

O.A.P

I use it on my farm its got two seats and gets so full of dirt that the dog would rather walk if its dry out and I need it almost every day. I gave them my pps number and my herd number the guard stamped it and I broke no law.
I will not worry about this clampdown or am I somehow wrong ?

Gingernuts31

O.A.P wrote: »

I use it on my farm its got two seats and gets so full of dirt that the dog would rather walk if its dry out and I need it almost every day. I gave them my pps number and my herd number the guard stamped it and I broke no law.
I will not worry about this clampdown or am I somehow wrong ?

If you only use it on your farm then I don't know how it stands. All I know is that the law was changed to stop people using commercials when in reality they were using them for illegal purposes such as man with van for hire without paying tax. I can only tell you what the guy told me. It makes sence revenue should be investigating this otherwise it just defeats the whole purpose of the law.

Tax office systems should be linked to revenue with regards to the VAT numbers. If someone goes in to tax the commercial with their PPS then it should come back instantly that it cannot be taxed commercial as there is no VAT no in place and must be taxed privatly. That is how it should be done. Obsivously there is some cases that are not as cut and dry as that like in yours for instance but the law was introduced for the government to make money and if they are loosing it because of people using their PPS then they will stop it.

gbee

Gingernuts31 wrote: »

the law was introduced for the government to make money and if they are loosing it because of people using their PPS then they will stop it.

No it was not. Motor Tax regulation cover several areas. The use of commercial vehicles is covered in one such area.

What happened was yuppie mummies buying kicka** 4x4 luxury saloon cars [which they are for tax purposed] and then taxing them as a van [which a 4x4 commercial is for tax purposes].

There was no new law, as post well informed people will know already. My first van goes back to 1972 and I changed it's tax from private to commercial at will at the rates changed, each time filling in the appropriate forms and getting them signed in the local Garda Station.

What happened is a Tax office did not request existing legislation to qualify, then a minister saw all the Chelsea Taxii's doing the school run on commercial Tax [when they clearly could afford the private tax] and flipped out demanding how this could happen.

Since then the minister concerned as informed himself of the situation.

101sean

OAP, you should still be fine with a herd number and you're using it legitimately.

I've no choice, I cough up €1050 pa. :mad: