Rainwater Harvesting

reilig

We got our first bill for mains water this week. It was for 2010 and 2011 and came to just over €1200. It wasn't too bad I suppose, if you consider what the scheme supplies to us. A dwelling house with 3 people, garden tap etc. Drinkers in 18 bays of slatted sheds and water to drinkers on about 50 acres of land. the rest of the land has a river flowing through it which can be accessed at several points.

But on the other side, €1200 is a lot of money when with a small investment, we could cut water usage by 66%. (So the experts say).

So, how many people harvest rainwater for their farm sheds and homes?

I have 3 slatted sheds - in different locations. That means 3 storage tanks. I'm thinking about installing 2 IBC tanks on a block stand outside the 2 smaller sheds and diverting the gutters into them. I will T them into the drinkers of the sheds and leave a simple stop valve for turning on and off the mains water if the tanks run dry. Although with the amount of rain that we get in this part of teh country, that isn't very likely. I might leave provision for adding an extra IBC tank if its needed.

I'm looking at getting a bigger tank for the bigger slatted shed - 5000 litres or bigger. This is the main shed of the farm and it uses a lot of water. has anyone bought a Rainwater Harvesting tank?? If so, can you give us some idea on price?

Does anyone know if there are any current grants available. If so, can you link some information on them?

I'm also looking at expanding my pasture pump collection. I currently have just one pump which is set up in an isolated piece of land with no mains water. I buried a 12" perforated Corri pipe and put a couple of buckets of gravel around the base to keep the water clean. i capped it off and i have a 20ft piece of pipe from the Pasture pump going down to the bottom of the pipe to get water for me. It works very well. I'm thinking about buying another pump and setting it onto a transportable frame so that i can move it with my cattle. I will also put down a few more corri-pipes to make diy wells in various locations.

Any thoughts?

MfMan

Good ideas in theory. How will such storage tanks react to the kind of temperatures we've had the previous 2 winters? If they were full, would severe frost crack them? Also, would pressure from gravity be enough to feed the drinkers? You may also need filters to ensure (minute) debris from the gutters don't cause blockages along the pipes and in the drinkers themselves.

lakill Farm

Reilig,
I know a ad who has a 3000 gallon steel tank for using to supply water to a beet feeder. he collects off 2 big sheds, the out flow is through a 4 inch pipe so no problem with filters. But it works well for him. You pick one up on donedeal the odd time.

I think the ibc is a waste of time, i saw last year a half full ibc freezing overnight inside in the shed with cattle right beside it. imagine outside.

I looked at the pasture pump last year. would love to look at it again and implement it

Swinefluproof

Got this quote from JFC after the ploughing this year. Never actually got around to doing anything about it cos was busy working and just didn't have the time. I don't think I would have bothered with the upgraded filter but the mains switch-over kit would probably be worthwhile if it works right. As far as I know this system is good enough for drinking water for cattle but not for use in a milking parlour. Have a PDF file about the installation of the tank that was attached to the quote but I don't think I can upload that here.

5,400 Litre Rainwater Harvesting System

1 x 5,400 Litre Tank (Dimensions: Ø 2m x 2.3m (height)) €1296 Exc. Vat
*1 x Filter Basket with Overflow Trap & Skimmer (Adds 0.3m to tank height) €332 Exc. Vat
*Unit comes with Standard Filter Basket: (Above Filter is optional upgrade)
1 x Delivery€100 Exc. Vat
TOTAL: €1,728 Exc. Vat



Optional Extra’s

1 x Integra Inox Submersible & Surface Pump (4 Bar 50 l/min) €365 Exc. Vat
1 x Pump Control Kit (60 Ltr Expansion Vessel & Controls) €140 Exc. Vat
1 x Automatic mains switch-over kit €300 Exc. Vat
1 x 10" Sediment Filter Housing with 5 Micron Filter Cartridge €37 Exc. Vat
TOTAL: €842 Exc. Vat

NewBeefFarmer

thoughts to add.
if u could have it inside, insulate it.
outside might work, but then ud have to protect the insulation.
also, light affects the water, algi / bad water etc . .. green water. so again covering with insulation would solve this. . .
but id always allow for over flow, or better way of putting it, keeping the water moving, if its not being used.

JohnBoy

IBCs are no good unless you can get the black ones.

the white ones let light in, which allows algae to grow, giving you green tanks.

The ideal (but spendy) solution is a buried tank, no light, no growth.

the flipside of that is you'd want good filtration going in. It's amazing the amount of silt that gets into a rainwater tank. My folks have a huge one, my mother used do a lot of gardening in her younger days, the place was full of tubs and window boxes. The auld lad used have a fine potato garden too, but we didnt have the most reliable of group schemes back in the 80s (to this day they always have a few litres of water, just in case it goes) so when a forklift drove into a milk tank at the co op one day my auld lad bought it for scrap value.


Had a never ending supply of water for flowers, spuds and anything else you'd care to water in even the driest of summers. the feckin thing is huge (and probably worth a fortune nowadays... stainless!!)


I'm rambling..... we cleaned it out after ten years of it taking water from a shed around 60x20 and there was 8-10 inches of silt in the bottom of it. so if you're gonna do this make sure the tank has a man sized access hole ( or keep breeding childer to drop into it)

reilig

I had a full IBC tank outside a shed last winter at -18 degrees and it froze solid, but didn't burst. I think that's enough of a test for anything. If the weather gets that cold, the sheds are frozen anyway and I end up having to bring water to the cattle. Insulation would be a waste of money.

I thought that algae only grew in stagnant water? I've an IBC under a gutter of one shed which is used for washing wellies and used when powerwashing machines for the last 7 or 8 years and it is still clear. It isn't emptied as much as a tank hooked to drinkers would be and it hasn't caused a problem. It holds a small bit of the dirt off the gutters in the very bottom so it is drained and hosed out once a year - there's never more than a handfull of silt in it though.

Would a steel tank be prone to frost damage?

Pressure isn't an issue for my drinkers. I have JFC flip lid ones which aren't pressurised. Just as long as the tank is up higher than the drinkers, the water will flow into them. Speed of flow isn't important when cattle are in a pen because they will be beside the drinker all the time.

I suppose I'm looking at the cheapest and most convenient way of doing it, keeping in mind that i always have the back-up of the mains. I have access to free IBC tanks, so the only cost to me is adapting the gutters, building the stand for the tank and the pipes and fittings.

Interesting figures Swinefluproof. I'm sure that a standard filter basket would be sufficient for drinking water for cattle?

JohnBoy

I've seen many an IBC go green, but couldnt speak for how long the water would be sitting in them. I suppose for what you're proposing there will be a fairly constant exchange of water as the tanks will be relatively small compared to the demand.

BeeDI

JohnBoy wrote: »

I've seen many an IBC go green, but couldnt speak for how long the water would be sitting in them. I suppose for what you're proposing there will be a fairly constant exchange of water as the tanks will be relatively small compared to the demand.

Couple of wraps of black bale plastic:cool:

JohnBoy

The man does have a wrapper

reilig

An average suckler cow will drink about 50 litres of water per day. One of the sheds holds 10 cows and 10 calves, so they'll drink no more than 750 litres per day. Possibly less if they are on damp silage. 2 IBC tanks full of water will last no more than 3 days. If the water in the tanks is changed every 3 to 5 days, I seriously doubt if there will be an issue with algae.

Tipp Man

reilig wrote: »

An average suckler cow will drink about 50 litres of water per day. One of the sheds holds 10 cows and 10 calves, so they'll drink no more than 750 litres per day. Possibly less if they are on damp silage. 2 IBC tanks full of water will last no more than 3 days. If the water in the tanks is changed every 3 to 5 days, I seriously doubt if there will be an issue with algae.

Is 2 tanks sufficient storage?

I suppose you will have the mains back up

blue5000

kwikstage scaffolding is going cheap on donedeal, could you hold 2 IBC tanks on one tower, that would be 2 ton? You would have about 6 foot of a head for gravity feed to drinkers.

cjpm

blue5000 wrote: »

kwikstage scaffolding is going cheap on donedeal, could you hold 2 IBC tanks on one tower, that would be 2 ton? You would have about 6 foot of a head for gravity feed to drinkers.

A litre of water weighs 1kg.

A 1000L IBC will weigh just over 1 tonne.

pakalasa

If you're using an IBC, can you check if it has good UV resistance from the supplier. They're may be different grades of plastic used, depending on what the IBCs are used for. I don't honestly know.
Sunlight does degrade them over time. It makes the plastic brittle.
Like you said, freezing wont be a problem as the plastic can expand that bit.
It's worth doing in a domestic house too, for toilet flushing water. It all adds up....

bbam

We gather rain water into a 600 gallon tank, 10 cows would empty it in 3/4 days no bother... a frosty snap and you're out of water very quickly..

This year it feeds drinkers to 20 weanlings and they never got it under half full..

We have another IBC tank gathering water and it is out in the open... Been there about 8 years and no problems with either brittle nor frost damage..

Jebus €1200 is a serious water bill rellig... Would it not pay to drill a well ??

redzerologhlen

bbam wrote: »

We gather rain water into a 600 gallon tank, 10 cows would empty it in 3/4 days no bother... a frosty snap and you're out of water very quickly..

This year it feeds drinkers to 20 weanlings and they never got it under half full..

We have another IBC tank gathering water and it is out in the open... Been there about 8 years and no problems with either brittle nor frost damage..

Jebus €1200 is a serious water bill rellig... Would it not pay to drill a well ??

A dairy farmer in my parish got one for €6000 a few months ago!!

reilig

We have a well.
Its 600 per year.
How much would it cost in electricity to run a pump for a year?
How much would the maintenance be?

Milton09

This is a system I use, 5000L tank (cost 1565 inc VAT) mounted on a pre-cast slab sitting on 3 block “walls”. Over designed but I had the materials left over and wasn’t going to take any chances as the tank weights over 5 Ton when full. Collecting water from a 3X3 bay shed. Works well, especially with all the rain we get in my area. There are a lot of trees around the shed so leaves are a problem, I put a self cleaning filter on the inlet and although it works quite well, its not very efficient, i.e looses a lot of water to waste as the mesh is very fine.
I replaced the lid with an old washing machine drum as a smell tended to develop in the tank in summer time. I also have a 1400 liter bowser that I can draw water to the tank with if need be as I have water troughs plumbed around the farm from the tank also. No mains water available.

blue5000

looks good milton, do you sterilise it with milton to kill algae:D:D:D:D?

Ah no joking aside, how big are the holes in the filter? I was thinking of using something like a big laundry plastic basket as a filter.

Milton09

blue5000 wrote: »

looks good milton, do you sterilise it with milton to kill algae:D:D:D:D?

Ah no joking aside, how big are the holes in the filter? I was thinking of using something like a big laundry plastic basket as a filter.

The filter is very fine, you might get a standard sowing needle through the holes. Problem is, it tends to get blocked with pollen and other sticky residue from leaves so have to disassemble to clean every now and then. Its stainless steel mesh and moulded into the housing so cannot be changed.

Good idea about the milton though !!!

feckin day gone again!!

reilig wrote: »

We have a well.
Its 600 per year.
How much would it cost in electricity to run a pump for a year?
How much would the maintenance be?

If u have a well y would u even bother with tanks and blocks and filters and leaves and ..... Put a uv light on the well and ur water is fit for human consumption. Did u know that roof water is full of bird droppings and where does a crow bring a rat/mouse/rabbit to eat? ..up onto a roof!! Crows carry all kinds of diseases. oh and bits of rust and paint added to the mix!!! Sorry Relig(: (: Our bills were 600 per quarter so we bored a well. It'l pay for itself in 3yrs!

reilig

feckin day gone again!! wrote: »

If u have a well y would u even bother with tanks and blocks and filters and leaves and ..... Put a uv light on the well and ur water is fit for human consumption. Did u know that roof water is full of bird droppings and where does a crow bring a rat/mouse/rabbit to eat? ..up onto a roof!! Crows carry all kinds of diseases. oh and bits of rust and paint added to the mix!!! Sorry Relig(: (: Our bills were 600 per quarter so we bored a well. It'l pay for itself in 3yrs!

But answer my question??

How much does it cost in electricity to run a well pump for a year?
Considering that we would have a 4 bedroom house on it, 18 slatted shed bays and about 20 field drinkers? We keep approx 100 cattle (60 cows + younger cattle).

How much would it cost to install a modern submersiable pump on it and a uv light?

What other maintenance costs would there be?

Our water bill is €150 per quarter. Before we went onto mains, the esb bill + ESB standing charge for our well was in excess of €150 per quarter as there was a constant demand on it. We had an old type pump and expansion vessel which required regular and expensive maintenance.

Would it make sense not to install some type of rainwater system??

Tora Bora

reilig wrote: »

But answer my question??

How much does it cost in electricity to run a well pump for a year?
Considering that we would have a 4 bedroom house on it, 18 slatted shed bays and about 20 field drinkers? We keep approx 100 cattle (60 cows + younger cattle).

How much would it cost to install a modern submersiable pump on it and a uv light?

What other maintenance costs would there be?

Our water bill is €150 per quarter. Before we went onto mains, the esb bill + ESB standing charge for our well was in excess of €150 per quarter as there was a constant demand on it. We had an old type pump and expansion vessel which required regular and expensive maintenance.

Would it make sense not to install some type of rainwater system??

Have you got a flowing stream or even a slow stream on higher land, which could be piped to a lower point in the land. Then install a ram pump.
They are absolutely brilliant when installed properly, if you are lucky enough to have a suitable water source.
Proper cast iron version, will go for years and years witout any maintenance cost. Then only simple and cheap seals are required.
No electricity needed. If the water source is deep enough and moving reasonably quickly enough, it will keep going and keep pumping in hard frost.

feckin day gone again!!

Our water bills were too big... over 2,000 a yr and pressure was crap. Water had alot of chlorine too so wasnt taking chances with it leaving a residue in bulk tank after cleaning.. Dont get me wrong, i have plenty of storage tanks for wash down pumps, power posing etc, i just dont use rain water for cattle or milking parlour/dairy. People should look their gutters... anytime i check mine there is always a few little skeletons in it....and an odd tex screw!!!:D

No6

What are you paying per cubic meter for the water relig?

cjpm

reilig wrote:

Our water bill is €150 per quarter. Before we went onto mains, the esb bill + ESB standing charge for our well was in excess of €150 per quarter as there was a constant demand on it. We had an old type pump and expansion vessel which required regular and expensive maintenance.

Reilig,

Not sure if you mean that you had an overground pump sucking water out of the well.

Modern submersibles are supposedly up to 7 times more efficient and maintenance free for years. I have never seen ours, it was put in over 20 years ago.

reilig

Yea ours was an over ground pump sucking the water up. Installed in the early 80s. How much is your pump costing in electricity per year and how many cattle are you watering with it?

cjpm wrote: »

reilig wrote:

Our water bill is €150 per quarter. Before we went onto mains, the esb bill + ESB standing charge for our well was in excess of €150 per quarter as there was a constant demand on it. We had an old type pump and expansion vessel which required regular and expensive maintenance.

Reilig,

Not sure if you mean that you had an overground pump sucking water out of the well.

Modern submersibles are supposedly up to 7 times more efficient and maintenance free for years. I have never seen ours, it was put in over 20 years ago.

JohnBoy

Must check that out.

we have a submersible pump, low maintenance, supplying about a dozen field troughs, two in the yard, a house and a few leaks thrown in for good measure.

lights in the yard are rarely on, and the fencer uses practically nothing so the bill would be 99% or so water.

I've an idea it's costing around €200/pa

cjpm

reilig wrote: »

Yea ours was an over ground pump sucking the water up. Installed in the early 80s. How much is your pump costing in electricity per year and how many cattle are you watering with it?

A good few years ago the Comic did an article on this issue.

To be honest i've no idea what it's costing. Theres a lot of other stuff running off the same metered supply so I couldn't tell you.

We had an over ground pump on a different well, only lifting water about 20 feet but it was a total b***ix of a job. A submersible was subsequently put in to replace it.

amby1980

reilig wrote: »

We got our first bill for mains water this week. It was for 2010 and 2011 and came to just over €1200. It wasn't too bad I suppose, if you consider what the scheme supplies to us. A dwelling house with 3 people, garden tap etc. Drinkers in 18 bays of slatted sheds and water to drinkers on about 50 acres of land. the rest of the land has a river flowing through it which can be accessed at several points.

But on the other side, €1200 is a lot of money when with a small investment, we could cut water usage by 66%. (So the experts say).

So, how many people harvest rainwater for their farm sheds and homes?

I have 3 slatted sheds - in different locations. That means 3 storage tanks. I'm thinking about installing 2 IBC tanks on a block stand outside the 2 smaller sheds and diverting the gutters into them. I will T them into the drinkers of the sheds and leave a simple stop valve for turning on and off the mains water if the tanks run dry. Although with the amount of rain that we get in this part of teh country, that isn't very likely. I might leave provision for adding an extra IBC tank if its needed.

I'm looking at getting a bigger tank for the bigger slatted shed - 5000 litres or bigger. This is the main shed of the farm and it uses a lot of water. has anyone bought a Rainwater Harvesting tank?? If so, can you give us some idea on price?

Does anyone know if there are any current grants available. If so, can you link some information on them?

I'm also looking at expanding my pasture pump collection. I currently have just one pump which is set up in an isolated piece of land with no mains water. I buried a 12" perforated Corri pipe and put a couple of buckets of gravel around the base to keep the water clean. i capped it off and i have a 20ft piece of pipe from the Pasture pump going down to the bottom of the pipe to get water for me. It works very well. I'm thinking about buying another pump and setting it onto a transportable frame so that i can move it with my cattle. I will also put down a few more corri-pipes to make diy wells in various locations.

Any thoughts?

My brother bought a system last year from a company in Mayo. I am not sure how much he paid for it but I think it was approx. €2,000. It is a 5,500 litre tank with pump and filters.
All I do know is he extremely satisfied as he had never good water pressure and as he was using IBC tanks previously the water was always dirty. Even though we had little frost this year, the frost wont affect it as the tank is designed to allow expansion.
He has another smaller farm about 3 miles away and he is in the process of getting a similar system for there. The government are paying out a grant to cover 40% of the costs at the moment and he is using the same company as before which are based in Mayo and Donegal. Even though there are no grants at the moment for domestic systems I am highly considering fitting an under ground system for my house to service toilets, washing machines, sinks & showers.
I think we are 'Mad' living in such a wet climate and not using rainwater where possible! In mainland Europe they have rainwater harvesting systems in nearly every second house. We all know like oil, water is only going to get more and more expensive but as usual will not adopt to anything new or different and prefer to pay through the nose for things.
When water rates are introduced for houses these systems will only increase in price with extra demand so I think it makes perfect sense to get one sooner rather than later!

amby1980

amby1980 wrote: »

My brother bought a system last year from a company in Mayo. I am not sure how much he paid for it but I think it was approx. €2,000. It is a 5,500 litre tank with pump and filters.
All I do know is he extremely satisfied as he had never good water pressure and as he was using IBC tanks previously the water was always dirty. Even though we had little frost this year, the frost wont affect it as the tank is designed to allow expansion.
He has another smaller farm about 3 miles away and he is in the process of getting a similar system for there. The government are paying out a grant to cover 40% of the costs at the moment and he is using the same company as before which are based in Mayo and Donegal. Even though there are no grants at the moment for domestic systems I am highly considering fitting an under ground system for my house to service toilets, washing machines, sinks & showers.
I think we are 'Mad' living in such a wet climate and not using rainwater where possible! In mainland Europe they have rainwater harvesting systems in nearly every second house. We all know like oil, water is only going to get more and more expensive but as usual will not adopt to anything new or different and prefer to pay through the nose for things.
When water rates are introduced for houses these systems will only increase in price with extra demand so I think it makes perfect sense to get one sooner rather than later!

BTW I found the company on the local paper - Rainwater Harvesting Systems Connacht http://www.harvestrainwater.ie

eco_i

I had asimilar bill of €2200 on a small home farm. There is a lot of information outthere but I got this crowd called [SNIP] I don’t havetheir number now but they put in a system for us and it has provided most ofthe water this year already. I know we’ve had a lot of rain but it defiantly works.The man we delt with was called Denis Sheehy. maybe you might be able to find them on the web.

paddy147

which is better then for underground application...

A precast concrete tank

OR

A plastic tank


Looking into installing a 5000 litre underground system in Dublin.

eco_i

I found thename of the company in [SNIP] that helped me out they can and will answer yourquestion with no sales crap. [Snip]

marzic

reilig wrote: »

But answer my question??

How much does it cost in electricity to run a well pump for a year?
Considering that we would have a 4 bedroom house on it, 18 slatted shed bays and about 20 field drinkers? We keep approx 100 cattle (60 cows + younger cattle).

How much would it cost to install a modern submersiable pump on it and a uv light?

What other maintenance costs would there be?

Our water bill is €150 per quarter. Before we went onto mains, the esb bill + ESB standing charge for our well was in excess of €150 per quarter as there was a constant demand on it. We had an old type pump and expansion vessel which required regular and expensive maintenance.

Would it make sense not to install some type of rainwater system??

I would say keep the house on the mains as you would probably be getting a min charge anyway for the connection(once you didnt exceed the domestic allowance), and move the non domestic use on to the well - you could arrange the plumbing to switch over for backup. My brother re-commissioned the well last year with a new submersible pump installed and a can of treatment of some kind for the well for E900. He got the water tested prior to using and didnt require any treatment system, only that its quite hard. You are always only a leak away from a big bill and unless you are reading the meter regularly or can see all of your supply pipe the day the bill arrives may be the first sign. I dont know what the bills are like for electricity, he'd have said if they were OTT. The submersibles are much less problematic than old surface pumps.

Does your council provide a domestic allowance? Here in Clare its 50,000gallons per year (227m3/yr) - most average houses wont go anywhere near this. You pay E145 metered charge plus usage in excess of the 50k. so if you really wanted to optimise the usage you could switch over to the mains for house and land up to the 50k for the year for the min charge -it would take a bit of management but it could be done

jimini0

Has anyone set up their ibc tank rain water harvesting yet? I'm thinking of setting up a ibc tank to collect rain water. Its a straw bed shed. I'm only intending on keeping 3 or 4 cows in for a few months over winter. What height would the tank outlet have to be above the drinkers to get a good gravity feed? It will be goin to 3 drinkers.

blue5000

As high as possible, 1 scaffold leg, 4 uprights, 4 transoms, 4 8ft bars and something for the icb to sit on should do ok. About 8 ft high at the base of the icb. How high is the gutter?

jimini0

blue5000 wrote: »

As high as possible, 1 scaffold leg, 4 uprights, 4 transoms, 4 8ft bars and something for the icb to sit on should do ok. About 8 ft high at the base of the icb. How high is the gutter?

The gutter is only 9ft from floor. Don't think its gonna work I was hoping to have outlet of tank 2 or 3 ft above drinkers. Might have to look into a pump.

blue5000

jimini0 wrote: »

The gutter is only 9ft from floor. Don't think its gonna work I was hoping to have outlet of tank 2 or 3 ft above drinkers. Might have to look into a pump.

You could get round the lack of height by putting in bigger bore (1'')pipes to the drinkers. The plastic nipples in the ballcocks can be changed to larger holes (low pressure) too.

jimini0

blue5000 wrote: »

You could get round the lack of height by putting in bigger bore (1'')pipes to the drinkers. The plastic nipples in the ballcocks can be changed to larger holes (low pressure) too.

My uncle is a plumber so he is goin having a look at it. I'll tell him what you said.
I was looking into filter options too. An old neighbour told me to fill the gutters with sandstone pebbles. That will catch any unwanted stuff. I thought he was raving