Ireland Players

ddogsbollix

In my opinion its about time that trap changes a lot of these irish players... seen how it is coming up to the euro there is a few irish players available to inspire ireland to get past the group stages

i think its a joke how players like McClean, Long, Walters will not be starting in the squad. im ashamed that kevin doyle is gonna start in this championship.

and i know there is plenty of kevin doyle fans on here but a strikers job is to score goals! he has got away with running after the ball up forward for to long! i know he does a job for ireland but its not good enough! for far to long players like kevin doyle have been getting man of the match! i know il get plenty of critics from this thread but you know im right!

ASOT

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056515621

Theirs your answer.

veXual

None of the 'new' players merit a place in the squad because they've had no part to play in qualification, this is Traps philosophy which I pretty much agree with.

The next batch of players are young and will be given their chance after Euro 2012

killwill

Long deserves more game time alright. I think the Irish contingent in Norwich deserve a call up for some friendlies.
McClean is not ready for international football yet IMO.

gustavo

ddogsbollix wrote: »

In my opinion its about time that trap changes a lot of these irish players... seen how it is coming up to the euro there is a few irish players available to inspire ireland to get past the group stages

i think its a joke how players like McClean, Long, Walters will not be starting in the squad. im ashamed that kevin doyle is gonna start in this championship.

and i know there is plenty of kevin doyle fans on here but a strikers job is to score goals! he has got away with running after the ball up forward for to long! i know he does a job for ireland but its not good enough! for far to long players like kevin doyle have been getting man of the match! i know il get plenty of critics from this thread but you know im right!

Maybe , just maybe and I know this is a long shot but go with me on it - It's possible that Trap knows better than you ? What with getting us qualified and all

jonnyfingers

veXual wrote: »

None of the 'new' players merit a place in the squad because they've had no part to play in qualification, this is Traps philosophy which I pretty much agree with.

I don't have much of a problem with this unless:

a) players are not playing for their club and are severely lacking match fitness and practice

b) "new" players are performing exceptionally and consistently so, especially ones who could easily fit in with Trap's game plan.


But I'm more so talking about the first team, I think there should be space available for "new" players in the squad regardless. There were plenty of fringe players in the qualification squad who contributed very little on the pitch. I see no reason why they should be given a place if they don't earn it between now and June.

That_Guy

With regards McClean OP, he's only recently started getting a look in for Sunderland and has a lot to learn. Sticking him straight into the Ireland squad at a major tournament may not be the best idea imo.

I want to see young players blooded in as much as anybody else but I'll gladly and proudly support the players who have gotten us to a major tournament for the first time in years.

I might not agree with team selections sometimes but Trap knows best and we're reaping the benefits.

kerosene

England had no bother throwing michael owen in at a world cup when he was 17. I dont think anyone is looking for wholesale changes but one or two young lads, bang in form and high on confidence could only be good for the squad as a whole. Had Babb, Kelly and McAteer played in the qualifiers before the 94 world cup?, I cant remember but I think they were relativley new to the squad.

gnfnrhead

gustavo wrote: »

Maybe , just maybe and I know this is a long shot but go with me on it - It's possible that Trap knows better than you ? What with getting us qualified and all

So he's immune from criticism?

I don’t see how anyone can think it's a good idea to ignore players, regardless of how well they are playing, just because he hasn’t picked them before. He should be picking those best suited and in the best form, not just those who have played for him before. Kevin Doyle for example, has been awful for quite some time now (club and country) but you can guarantee that barring injury he will be the second striker on the plane, no questions asked.

Staying loyal to the players that got you there is fine... provided they are in form. But, come decision time, if they are playing like Doyle currently is, they should be left at home in favour of someone who may contribute something.

Mr.Nice Guy

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Staying loyal to the players that got you there is fine... provided they are in form. But, come decision time, if they are playing like Doyle currently is, they should be left at home in favour of someone who may contribute something.

It amazes me how some fans are turning on Doyle right now. Talk about short memories.

What happened to form is temporary, class is permanent?

Kevin Doyle was a shining light in a very dark time for Irish football. Twice named Senior Player of the Year. Worked his socks off and set an example for the others. Now he's going through a bad patch and people want to discard him?

We will probably take four strikers and there's no guarantee the fourth striker will even feature. Would I play Doyle on current form? No. Would I leave him at home? Hell no. He deserves to be there as much as Dunne, Given, Duff or Keane.

There's no point in fans banging on about loyalty when it comes to having a moan about the absence of Stephen Ireland or the seeming reluctance of Stokes and McCarthy to feature, and yet at the same time, when a player who would run through a wall for the country like Doyle has a dip in confidence, they then want him to be left on the scrap heap.

gnfnrhead

I'm not suggesting discarding him at all. He can still fight for his place afterwards. I just dont believe he should be taken on current form just because he has played a lot under Trap.

Assuming Trap takes four strikers with him, Keane is automatic first name on the team sheet. Doyle will be second when it comes to strikers. Now pretend Walters, Cox and Long (lets add in Best or Stokes to avoid the "take five" answer) all score 20 goals each between now and June while Doyle continues to be muck. How can you justify taking him at the expense of someone who is playing much better?

Only an injury will see him lose his place under Trap, it doesnt matter how bad his form is, he'll still get picked. Thats what my problem is.

jdooley28

but if mc clean keeps playing for sunderland nd doing well how can we leave him at home?

ddogsbollix

2 things get you far in tornaments- clean sheets and someone that can scores!
he got us to the tornament so far play to him.

but the players we have to our disposal we could play much better football and win more games!

players like paul mc shane, andy keogh, gibson, cox and the likes should be thrown out of the squad cause they didnt get us to this euro's.

alan hansen famously said ya cant win the league with kids and what happened UTD won the league. i would much prefere to bring in McClean who is young, fit, and very confident the same can be said for some of the norwich lads!

this rubbish of the young lads for the next tornanments..... thats not gonna happen cause most of this squad isnt awful old only the best players!

at the moment you should be breeding in new GOALSCORING strikers like long to replace keane because doyle wont!!! :mad:

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Blood new players like McClean and get hammered by Spain, Italy and Croatia or playing the same system and by some miracle scrape through the group?

Scrape through the group every time.

A European Championship is no time to start throwing in players in the hope that they'll run the show - they more than likely won't.

As for Doyle - he's one of Ireland's best 5 players and the second best striker. Without him Ireland would've been no where near these championships, imo. His work rate is unbelievable, I'd rather have a work horse and a goal scorer than two goal scorers that don't put in the work. Especially for a team like Ireland against the teams of the quality that we'll be playing in June.

Raskolnikov

ddogsbollix wrote: »

at the moment you should be breeding in new GOALSCORING strikers like long to replace keane because doyle wont!!! :mad:

How can you breed someone who has already been conceived? Or are you suggesting that Shane Long be put into stud with the daughters of top players like Maradonna, Cruyff, etc. in order to breed some sort of super footballer?

Raskolnikov

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It amazes me how some fans are turning on Doyle right now. Talk about short memories.

I think it's fair to say that most fans don't have a clue about football management. When we had Steve Staunton, we played our best 11 players every match, even if it meant shoe-horning them into positions they didn't play. The results were disastrous, and it's amazing that people want to go back to those days. Considering that we're playing some of the best teams in the world, it's hardly going to make much of a difference choosing a mid-table Premier League player like Duff, over another mid-table Premier League player like McClean. What gives this team a chance is having a system, having players that understand and are familiar with the system, and having players that are motivated and will play for the team.

woodoo

I hope McLean is included in the squad, he is not afraid of the ball and really puts an effort in.

Raskolnikov

ddogsbollix wrote: »

im ashamed that kevin doyle is gonna start in this championship.

:pac:

Soups123

Raskolnikov wrote: »

ddogsbollix wrote: »

im ashamed that kevin doyle is gonna start in this championship.

You have a serious mis understanding of the word shame, how the **** could you be ashamed Doyle will start? shouting 4 players like McLean after 6/8 weeks of form cop on, Doyle deserves to start with Keane no other option has done enough to warrant pushing him out (yet), his effort, attitude & ability is exactly what we need in a 4 week tournament.

Father Damo

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that most fans don't have a clue about football management. When we had Steve Staunton, we played our best 11 players every match, even if it meant shoe-horning them into positions they didn't play. The results were disastrous, and it's amazing that people want to go back to those days.

Indeed. Throughout Traps reign people have complained that he isnt making the selections that seem blindly obvious. Everyone was up in arms when, despite being in great form, Shane Long was benched and he played the little known Simon Cox, against Armenia IIRC. What happened? Cox scored and had an all round blinder of a match. Trap has his methods and I always trust his selections even if they do seem bizarre, as they nearly alwaays pay off.

WoollyRedHat

McClean is a player for the future ( i.e world cup qualification 2014) but in saying that it would be nice to see him as an impact sub. On the other hand, chemistry and team morale is quite important, if someone who has played no part in the qualifications gets in, and is only just been on the horizon gets in, then it will agitate some in the camp possibly... but then there is also the argument that form= deserving of a place.... I'd rather see how he fares in some friendlies before sticking him on a plane tbf.

eire4

I can understand and am fine with why Trap has said he is going to go with the players who have got Ireland to the finals. But I really do hope there is some room to freshen things up a bit with the squad for the finals. Players like Kevin Kilbane for instance have been great servants to Ireland. But his time is past and I think we would be much better served by having one of the younger left backs such as Greg Cunningham or maybe Ciaran Clarke who is so versatile included instead. Andy Keogh is a player who I have no idea why he still makes squads and certainly I would be fine with James McClean or another emerging player making the finals squad instead of him.

Predalien

That_Guy wrote: »

With regards McClean OP, he's only recently started getting a look in for Sunderland and has a lot to learn. Sticking him straight into the Ireland squad at a major tournament may not be the best idea imo.

I want to see young players blooded in as much as anybody else but I'll gladly and proudly support the players who have gotten us to a major tournament for the first time in years.

I might not agree with team selections sometimes but Trap knows best and we're reaping the benefits.

With regards McClean he played a lot of football before he joined Sunderland, so only having a small number of premier league games shouldn't count against him, he's been very good for a few years, not just a few weeks.

That_Guy

Predalien wrote: »

With regards McClean he played a lot of football before he joined Sunderland, so only having a small number of premier league games shouldn't count against him, he's been very good for a few years, not just a few weeks.

I understand but he's only recent started playing at a much higher level than he's used to.

For now stick with the tried and trusted players that have gotten us to the Euro's and then start looking towards the next batch of lads for the upcoming World Cup qualifications.

darkman2

One of those who will be on the flight

Raskolnikov

ddogsbollix wrote: »

im ashamed that kevin doyle is gonna start in this championship.

:pac:

darkman2

Kevin Doyle set up the first and scored the second for Wolves today. Maybe that's the game Trap should be at! Horror show for McClean.

Raskolnikov

darkman2 wrote: »

Kevin Doyle set up the first and scored the second for Wolves today. Maybe that's the game Trap should be at! Horror show for McClean.

McClean to the glue factory then :P

noodler

ddogsbollix wrote: »

. im ashamed that kevin doyle is gonna start in this championship.

Snnnnnnoooooooooorrrrrreee.

briany

It doesn't matter how good these fringe players are, if Trap doesn't feel that they fit his system then they don't get in so when people say McClean should be in instead of Hunt, I don't agree because while McClean may be the Irish player of the moment, we just don't know how he'll integrate into Trap's team and that goes also for all the fringe names that people are talking about. We don't know how well they might follow Trap's instructions and we don't know how well they'll gel with their team mates. I don't think that Trap is anti-newcomer but it would go against everything we have seen of the manager to mess with the team's chemistry at this point in time. It's nice to have options on the back burner to fall back on if we some catastrophic clusterf*** of injuries but I don't expect any of these players to make their way into the first eleven by the time of the Euros.