St. Brigid, Ireland's first abortionist

NecroSteve

Opinions, anyone?

http://choiceireland.blogspot.com/2008/02/happy-st-brigids-day-irelands-first.html

gimmebroadband

The following links may help!

http://www.jstor.org/pss/25508920

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04094a.htm

homer911

Can you not post some sort of commentary or opinion yourself other than just a title and a link? - having to click off to other sites to discover what you are talking about is really annoying..

qrrgprgua

homer911 wrote: »

Can you not post some sort of commentary or opinion yourself other than just a title and a link? - having to click off to other sites to discover what you are talking about is really annoying..

Yeah ... But when its Atheist Pro-Choice they prefer to punch and run. They don't have the stomach for discussion.

Benny_Cake

NecroSteve wrote: »

Opinions, anyone?

http://choiceireland.blogspot.com/2008/02/happy-st-brigids-day-irelands-first.html

OK, I read it and I think they aren't doing their credibility any favours by pushing the semi-mythical figure of St.Brigid as a pro-choice icon. What do you think OP?

philologos

My opinion is that it is a badly written article. I don't see how this is an argument for a pro-choice position or how it weakens Christianity in any shape or form.

scriba

The originally posted article states:

In the 7th century, Brigid performed an abortion on a young woman. This was perfectly acceptable in the eyes of the Church then and her ability to 'cause the fetus to disappear' was considered nothing short of a miracle.

It was not perfectly acceptable in the Church. Contemporary evidence from the Irish Church (the Canones Hibernenses) state that penance is required for the destruction of a child in a mother's womb, of 3.5 years (Section I.6). If it is the mother herself that performs it, 12 years on bread and water (s. I.11). Similar negative attitudes to abortion are found in the Penitential of Columbanus (s. B.6), and the Penitential of Finnian (s. 20), see Bieler's edition of the Irish Penitentials for details.

Cogitosus' Vita is a hagiography, in the finest sense of the tradition. A collection of miracle stories which are arranged in such a way as to edify on Christian life and belief, while forwarding the intercessory powers of the saint in question. A hagiography (particularly Irish examples) is not authoritative like Scripture, when examined for an orthodox position. While the meaning of hagiographical episodes is always open to debate, the emphasis here is on the impossibility of the event and the saint's unparalleled faith in God's ability to draw people to salvation. The young woman had broken her vow of virginity to God, due to what is described as 'youthful concupiscence'. Brigit, through her faith, acquires the restoration of her physical and spiritual health, because 'all things are possible to those who believe.' (Mk 9:23)

I believe the episode is thoroughly suspect, but to claim it for an early medieval ecclesiastical position on abortion is fraudulent. The author of the article should have done some research.

tommy2bad

Isn't their some thing about 'quickening' or some such term for a fetus before the first trimester that allows abortion as life isn't thought to be present yet?
Have to look it up but as I understand it the idea of 'from conception' is relatively recent.

Benny_Cake

tommy2bad wrote: »

Isn't their some thing about 'quickening' or some such term for a fetus before the first trimester that allows abortion as life isn't thought to be present yet?
Have to look it up but as I understand it the idea of 'from conception' is relatively recent.

I knew I read something like this before, but couldn't remember exactly what, so Wikipedia to the rescue:

In pregnancy terms, the moment of quickening refers to the initial motion of the fetus in the uterus as it is perceived or felt by the pregnant woman. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, to "quicken" means "to reach the stage of pregnancy at which the child shows signs of life."[1] In the twentieth century, ultrasound technology made it possible to see that a fetus is in motion even if the pregnant woman does not yet feel it. This technological development made the concept of "quickening" more complex.

So it seems to be quite an outdated concept at this stage. As for life beginning or not beginning at the moment of conception, I won't go near that particular can of worms!

The Quadratic Equation

Why was this thread title allowed on a Christianity forum ?

tommy2bad

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Why was this thread title allowed on a Christianity forum ?

Rumor has it St Brigid was a Christian, I doubt it myself, mostly re purposed pagan godess imnsho, and if she condoned abortion then.... well you see where it goes.

Mentioned the quickening thing because it makes the term abortion contextual to an understanding of pregnancy at the time St Brigid would have lived and therefore a non event as far as our definitions are concerned. Or not. Depending on your stance.