Is GAA ability genetic?

CyberDave

The more you read about the history of GAA the more I realise how many great players followed on from fathers, uncles, cousins who had played with distinction before them. There are of course exceptions to the rule. But in general is GAA ability genetic? or is it down to our small population, or indeed that young players that don't have a history of coming from a family that hasn't produced good playersin the past, not getting the same chances as those who have. What are people's thoughts?

MickySticks

I don't think GAA ability is genetic per say, I would say competitiveness, awareness, determination, motivation and confidence are all genetic, these characteristics are key to becoming a top GAA player. Sean Og O' Halpain's (sp) parents had no affiliation with Gaelic games whatsoever yet he was a superstar, and he's just one example.

Music is the same a lot of son/daughters of famous musicians also become musically inclined.

n32

natural ability isnt genetic. but what is the genetic is the attitude of some to go out and practice the skills religously, take care of themselves and prepare well so that they can measure up to their talented family members who came before them. The O Se brothers werent born class foootballers just because their uncle was a great player. They became great players because they saw what their uncle achieved and the training he did to become a great player and they worked on their skills. Ability isnt genetic, but the motivation to emulate those who came before you is genetic

Gaelic football and hurling do not come natural no matter who youre related to. Gooch, Shefflin etc are the best at what they do because of the hours of practice they put from when they were young kids.

macgrub

In my opinion, the quick answer is No.
My belief is that a player's environment is the biggest influence. This may come in the form of various members of family who are involved in a particular discipline. In addition, I believe that general aspects of life are very important. For example, if the parents are focused, if the community where they live has a sporting tradition and schooling (to mention just a few). All of these variables within society shape how a person gains ability.
Not forgetting, dedication and practice by the person .

Lemlin

macgrub wrote: »

In my opinion, the quick answer is No.
My belief is that a player's environment is the biggest influence. This may come in the form of various members of family who are involved in a particular discipline. In addition, I believe that general aspects of life are very important. For example, if the parents are focused, if the community where they live has a sporting tradition and schooling (to mention just a few). All of these variables within society shape how a person gains ability.
Not forgetting, dedication and practice by the person .

I'd agree. If you surround a child with farming when small, they usually grow to love it. Surround the child with animals, they grow to love them. So if you surround them with football or hurling, they are bound to play from a young age and thus improve.

efb

No having the uncle as a selector helps

hardybuck

Would find it hard to believe that it isn't. If you take a county like Kilkenny, all of their players seem to be able to point to a parent, uncle or grandfather who played at the top level and won a few All Irelands.

If you have two big slobs of parents who never got off the couch and are allergic to sports, chances are that their child would be similar regardless of his environment.

If genetics weren't a factor, why would the equine industry bother with their extensive investment in breeding? Why would be bother with pedigree dogs who come from a good line and have registered papers?

bruschi

hardybuck wrote: »

Would find it hard to believe that it isn't. If you take a county like Kilkenny, all of their players seem to be able to point to a parent, uncle or grandfather who played at the top level and won a few All Irelands.

If you have two big slobs of parents who never got off the couch and are allergic to sports, chances are that their child would be similar regardless of his environment.

If genetics weren't a factor, why would the equine industry bother with their extensive investment in breeding? Why would be bother with pedigree dogs who come from a good line and have registered papers?

Shefflin doesnt have any historical links as far as I know.

As others have alluded to, I dont think it is genetics, moreso what is around you from when you are young. If your parents, uncles etc are into whatever sport when you are young, its highly likely you are going to be immerssed in that sport and aim to be like them.

parents being slobs on the couch has nothing to do with genetics, its what you are brought up with and accustomed to. If they have little interest in sport, then its likely the child will have little interaction with sport, and wont aspire to be a sportsperson.

the one thing having a relatvie involved does do though, is it garners some interest int he kid as they grow up, and they are looked out for more so than the kid who hasnt come from such a background. And I could again point to Shefflin in this regards, as he didnt do much at all in the underage ranks in Kilkenny, and only really began to shine after minor level.

blue note

hardybuck wrote: »

Would find it hard to believe that it isn't. If you take a county like Kilkenny, all of their players seem to be able to point to a parent, uncle or grandfather who played at the top level and won a few All Irelands.

If you have two big slobs of parents who never got off the couch and are allergic to sports, chances are that their child would be similar regardless of his environment.

If genetics weren't a factor, why would the equine industry bother with their extensive investment in breeding? Why would be bother with pedigree dogs who come from a good line and have registered papers?

Kilkenny is a good example actually. They're all great hurlers and they're all related!

hardybuck

Not 100% about Shefflin, but probe back into his family tree and you'll probably find something. Maybe Henry Jr will be a good test, his mother is also a former Kilkenny camogie player!

People being slobs on a couch has everything to do with genetics. Many people simply aren't built in a way which will enable them to play sports. They may be simply too large, too slow, or naturally weak and slight.

As I say, look at the equine industry. They pump endless sums of money into genetics, and recently traced a speed gene back to a horse from 200 years ago.

Altreab

hardybuck wrote: »

Not 100% about Shefflin, but probe back into his family tree and you'll probably find something. Maybe Henry Jr will be a good test, his mother is also a former Kilkenny camogie player!

Many factors are at work to making any athlete and all the attributes mentioned previously are essential. What i think hasnt been said is that when someone is very successful at their sport (or anything in life) Those who around them like sons/daughters/nephews/niceces get to see whats required to become successful. The younger family members tend to absorb from whats around them the levels of training and the skills needed.
Then endless training and focus thats required. Then when they have say for an example Henry Shefflin training with them he will push them harder and be more demanding than any other coach, because he does know exactly whats required.
Its for this reason and more that people who have previously successful family members find it "easier" to get to the top in the "family business"

keane2097

Google "nature versus nuture".

There's no clear answer to this question, it's probably a bit of both. Certainly talent without hard work is useless, I wouldn't say the same for hard work and no talent.

6ix

I'd be in agreement with the first few responses on the thread.

I'm reading a really good book on this subject at the moment. Not about GAA, but more about sportspeople in general. It has really challenged any beliefs I had in 'natural talent'.

Bounce - The Myth of Talent and the Power of Practice

There are some very convincing arguments in there that point to success in sport being much more about practice than any 'natural talent'.

Yes, genes help - like competitiveness, strength, natural levels of fitness etc, but like a few of the other posters have already said, the reason that so many GAA players follow in the path of their relatives is more to do with being in an environment where they are heavily involved in the sport from a young age, and want to emulate their relatives.

bruschi

hardybuck wrote: »

Not 100% about Shefflin, but probe back into his family tree and you'll probably find something. Maybe Henry Jr will be a good test, his mother is also a former Kilkenny camogie player!

People being slobs on a couch has everything to do with genetics. Many people simply aren't built in a way which will enable them to play sports. They may be simply too large, too slow, or naturally weak and slight.

As I say, look at the equine industry. They pump endless sums of money into genetics, and recently traced a speed gene back to a horse from 200 years ago.

I know this is the second time you have mentioned horse racing. I purposly ignored it the first time.

You cant seriously equate the sheer physical trait of running as being a sole reason for genetics being a big part? anyone can run, anyone can be an athlete, but not everyone can be a hurler.

Genetics help physical traits, blood cell count and all that jazz that makes African men better long distance runners etc. Genetics dont help you shoulder a lad onto his arse whilst driving the ball over the bar from 80 yards out.

hardybuck

bruschi wrote: »

I know this is the second time you have mentioned horse racing. I purposly ignored it the first time.

You cant seriously equate the sheer physical trait of running as being a sole reason for genetics being a big part? anyone can run, anyone can be an athlete, but not everyone can be a hurler.

Genetics help physical traits, blood cell count and all that jazz that makes African men better long distance runners etc. Genetics dont help you shoulder a lad onto his arse whilst driving the ball over the bar from 80 yards out.

Yeah its obviously more than genetics, but it certainly plays a huge part. Clearly a huge amount of time must be spent to perfect the skills, the same as the horse must have a good trainer and a good jockey.

However, there is no use being the most skillful player in the county if you weigh 20 stone, have no speed, no aggression, can't jump and have terrible stamina.

ReacherCreature

Socialisation is a key factor at times in my view. Similar to "political socialisation" i.e if your parents support Fine Gael or Labour or Democrats or Republicans there's a strong chance you will too. If a child is steeped in hurling or football throughout their childhood and early adult years they will in all likelihood grow to love it and want to succeed in it. At a young age success and determination, if bred to the player in a healthy dosage will likely make them want to succeed and better themselves.

On the other hand the families may not have any connection and the person picks up a hurley or ball and decides to give it a go, through self-learning and teaching from others, they may become great.

Genetics has a role too but that's a grey area for me so I wouldn't be certain. Just a lot of what-ifs and hypothetical situations.

What would be an interesting idea for research would be to ask this question, is genetics a factor in GAA? It would make for enjoyable reading but the work would be enormous. That's a thread in itself!

Littlehorny

For every player on a top county team that has a father or uncle who were good in their day i.e share similar genetics, there must be about ten with no family history. As Kilkenny was mentioned already its not genetics that has them so good, its that they are just hurling fanatics in the county. If they possess superior genetic athletic ability than other counties then why is the football team the worst in the country?
I heard an old Kilkenny man on the telly one night just saying they just walked around all day with a hurl in their hand growing up, as he said himself "if we wer'nt hitting a few balls, we used them as rifles to play cowboys and indians".

ReacherCreature

Littlehorny wrote: »

I heard an old Kilkenny man on the telly one night just saying they just walked around all day with a hurl in their hand growing up, as he said himself "if we wer'nt hitting a few balls, we used them as rifles to play cowboys and indians".

True. A friend of mine who knows some of the Tipperary team heard about how, when Lar Corbett was a young lad he brought his hurley and ball practically everywhere and wasn't seen without it, such was his interest.

Panrich

While all of this is true, there are certain genetic components that allow players develop into top sportsmen that cannot be attained through coaching exclusively. For instance, natural speed and hand to eye co-ordination is not coachable if totally absent although it may be enhanced by training. The correct size and body shape for any particular sport is also largely genetic.
We all know people from our youth that you could point to from a very early age and say that he has all the tools to be a great player. Others you could say would never be great because they were too un-coordinated and unathletic and no amount of coaching would ever get them to surpass those who had the natural talent/genetic headstart.