MSISS or computer science and business

Call Me Lia · 31-01-2012 5:30pm #1

Is anybody doing/did one of these courses? What are the difference between them?

Need to decide by tomorrow for CAO :rolleyes:

Amirani · 31-01-2012 5:59pm

MSISS is far more based around statistics and the use of mathematics in business. There's heavy emphasis on Probability, Management Science techniques and the use of software such as Excel for creating models for business. There's a limited amount of Programming and Engineering Maths. They also do Economics, Accounting and a couple of other business subjects with BESS.

Computer Science and Business is a lot more directed towards computers than business. There's less emphasis on mathematical ability (hence not needing LC honours) and much more on the technical aspects of computing than MSISS. In my view it's a bridge between something like MSISS and Computer Science.

Both are good courses in my opinion, evidenced by the high levels of graduate employment from the area.

Call Me Lia · 31-01-2012 9:47pm

Thanks

,
I've decided to put msiss above computer science and business because it's more numerical.

higgz · 01-02-2012 10:11am

Call Me Lia wrote: »

Thanks ,
I've decided to put msiss above computer science and business because it's more numerical.

Excellent choice, I'm first year MSISS and it's an amazing course. Let me know if you've any further questions.

Call Me Lia · 01-02-2012 1:11pm

higgz wrote: »

Excellent choice, I'm first year MSISS and it's an amazing course. Let me know if you've any further questions.

Hi

,
I'm putting it as no. 2 after economics and finance in UCD...but I really don't know, would it be better? Was it your first choice? I'm still also considering maths and economics in Trinity, and actuarial studies in UCD.

higgz · 01-02-2012 3:44pm

Call Me Lia wrote: »

Hi ,
I'm putting it as no. 2 after economics and finance in UCD...but I really don't know, would it be better? Was it your first choice? I'm still also considering maths and economics in Trinity, and actuarial studies in UCD.

Personally I wanted to go Trinity over UCD because of transport so MSISS was my first choice. I can't really say what I'd have picked if UCD was more convenient to me.

I had considered Economics and Maths but ruled it out because the maths is meant to be very hard. In MSISS the maths is relatively easier but still at an honours level of course. It's also focused on statistics and probability which was my favourite part of LC maths. And I was always interested in computers so MSISS had the advantage there too.

Call Me Lia · 01-02-2012 6:00pm

higgz wrote: »

Personally I wanted to go Trinity over UCD because of transport so MSISS was my first choice. I can't really say what I'd have picked if UCD was more convenient to me.

I had considered Economics and Maths but ruled it out because the maths is meant to be very hard. In MSISS the maths is relatively easier but still at an honours level of course. It's also focused on statistics and probability which was my favourite part of LC maths. And I was always interested in computers so MSISS had the advantage there too.

I know economics and finance doesn't have any computers, but I'm planning to take some programming modules through the horizons electives. Ya I'm going to have to get two buses, but I figure it'll all be worth it in the end. Hopefully anyway

.

The cao is closed now till 5th march.
But there's always the change of mind.

This is what I put down:
1. economics and finance (ucd)
2. actuarial studies (ucd)
3. msiss (tcd)
4. business and computing (tcd)
and the rest aren't important

But anyway, thanks for all your help. Whenever I'd type anything cao related into boards that I was looking for, your threads always came up

they're still being read

NSNO · 01-02-2012 6:43pm

Just remember that Business & Computing (Or Computer Science and Business as it is now) is 50% of a Computer Science degree. 50%. It isn't Business with Excel. It is 50% Business and 50% Computer Science. That means the study of mathematics, logic and lots & lots of programming. Just be aware of that.

Gae · 03-02-2012 9:28pm

NSNO wrote: »

Just remember that Business & Computing (Or Computer Science and Business as it is now) is 50% of a Computer Science degree. 50%. It isn't Business with Excel. It is 50% Business and 50% Computer Science. That means the study of mathematics, logic and lots & lots of programming. Just be aware of that.

Looks like more than 50% CS according to the handbook (PDF - http://www.scss.tcd.ie/assets/resources/bacsb-handbook.pdf)

NSNO · 04-02-2012 4:22pm

It's pretty much 50% for the first year/two. After that you get a lot of choice to go almost completely business focused or vice versa.

Call Me Lia · 05-02-2012 1:00pm

I figured there would be lots of programming, considering it's computer science and business. :P

If I end up going to UCD to study business, I'd be taking programming electives through Horizons. Having a knowledge of software and programming is very important in today's business world and having those skills would add to my employability.

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

Unregistered. · 05-02-2012 1:21pm

Call Me Lia wrote: »

If I end up going to UCD to study business, I'd be taking programming electives through Horizons. Having a knowledge of software and programming is very important in today's business world and having those skills would add to my employability.

I don't think so.

Call Me Lia · 05-02-2012 5:20pm

Unregistered. wrote: »

Call Me Lia wrote: »

If I end up going to UCD to study business, I'd be taking programming electives through Horizons. Having a knowledge of software and programming is very important in today's business world and having those skills would add to my employability.

I don't think so.

You dont think having a knowledge of programming is essential to the business world and employers look for that nowadays?

Unregistered. · 05-02-2012 6:46pm

Call Me Lia wrote: »

You dont think having a knowledge of programming is essential to the business world and employers look for that nowadays?

The business world? No.

C.D. · 09-02-2012 7:19pm

Unregistered. wrote: »

The business world? No.

Any office I've been, multinational through to SME has benefited enormously from people with VBA skills and strong Excel skills, especially from people in non-technical roles. You'll get the Excel stuff in MSISS, unsure about VBA. Web based skills and database skills are a definite value add for the SME sector.

Unregistered. · 09-02-2012 7:23pm

Computer Science do a lot of Excel.

Dante · 10-02-2012 5:13pm

Unregistered. wrote: »

Computer Science do a lot of Excel.

Speaking from a CS&B perspective, I'm in 3rd year now and have only had to use Excel only a hand full of times, most of which was in 1st year. I also highly doubt that CS students even do a fraction of the amount of Excel that MSISS students would be doing.

Call Me Lia wrote: »

This is what I put down:
1. economics and finance (ucd)
2. actuarial studies (ucd)
3. msiss (tcd)
4. business and computing (tcd)
and the rest aren't important

Judging from what you put down on your CAO, you seem to enjoy working with numbers so I think it was good choice picking MSISS over CS&B, best of luck anyways.

NSNO · 10-02-2012 6:12pm

Unregistered. wrote: »

Computer Science do a lot of Excel.

I have never done Excel. Ever.

Actually I don't even think I have Microsoft Office.

Amirani · 11-02-2012 1:54am

C.D. wrote: »

Any office I've been, multinational through to SME has benefited enormously from people with VBA skills and strong Excel skills, especially from people in non-technical roles. You'll get the Excel stuff in MSISS, unsure about VBA. Web based skills and database skills are a definite value add for the SME sector.

Plenty of VBA in MSISS from second-year onwards. Seems we do some amount Excel in pretty much every module...

Call Me Lia · 12-02-2012 6:51pm

DaaaaaaaaaaN wrote: »

Unregistered. wrote: »

Computer Science do a lot of Excel.

Speaking from a CS&B perspective, I'm in 3rd year now and have only had to use Excel only a hand full of times, most of which was in 1st year. I also highly doubt that CS students even do a fraction of the amount of Excel that MSISS students would be doing.

Call Me Lia wrote: »

This is what I put down:
1. economics and finance (ucd)
2. actuarial studies (ucd)
3. msiss (tcd)
4. business and computing (tcd)
and the rest aren't important

Judging from what you put down on your CAO, you seem to enjoy working with numbers so I think it was good choice picking MSISS over CS&B, best of luck anyways.

You're right. I do enjoy working with numbers. If I choose msiss would I be missing out on anything important in CS&B?I've heard that msiss do a lot of projects together, so they get a lot of experience in that end. Do you do that in CS&B? Is working in finance still an option after CS&B?

I'm seriously reconsidering my choices at the moment and I'm glad I started this thread.

robobobo · 02-05-2012 3:28pm

I'm in MSISS and we focus more on the mathematical side of business (management science) which B&C wouldn't look at as much. We don't do as much in the line of programming as B&C but we do have our programming lectures with them and the Computer Science guys.

B&C go more in depth than MSISS on the programming side of things but MSISS still gain a pretty good knowledge of it all as well.

If you really like working with numbers I'd say MSISS is definitely something you'd be interested in. We do general business as well and then we apply maths to it. It's actually quite interesting because you can see why the stuff we do is relevant to the real world.

With regards to working in Finance after B&C. It's still a possibility, but you would be more geared to developing financial programs as B&C is focused on creating programs for business I believe.

MSISS is a sure thing for getting into the Financial industry, the range of maths skills we develop are very highly sought after.

Tragedy · 02-05-2012 3:56pm

robobobo wrote: »

MSISS is a sure thing for getting into the Financial industry, the range of maths skills we develop are very highly sought after.

What maths do you do after SF?

MSISS is more geared towards management consultancy on IT firms than the financial industry.

robobobo · 02-05-2012 4:00pm

Lots of stats, probability, applied finance, forecasting, investment analysis

It's all here
http://www.scss.tcd.ie/undergraduate/msiss/

Tragedy · 02-05-2012 4:12pm

So you mean MSISS do one half year module in JS (Practical Data Analysis) on stats and no maths, and choose either applied finance or financial and management accounting?
And in SS they do no maths or stats unless they choose one of the two stats modules as their elective? In fact, they can choose investment analysis OR finance OR one of two stats modules.

Definitely a sure thing for getting into the financial industry, unlike pure maths/TSM maths/economics/physics/finance/etc etc students

It's in the name of the course, Management science and information systems.

robobobo · 02-05-2012 4:20pm

I'll agree maths/TSM maths/economics/physics/finance/etc students would be well suited for the financial industry, probably more so than MSISS students.

The original question was whether or not Finance was still a possibility after B&C and I was just pointing out that MSISS would definitely have the edge over them.

Don't read too much into the title of the course though, it's not really that accurate of a description of what we do and Trinity are looking into renaming it.

Tragedy · 02-05-2012 4:35pm

Indeed, but you said MSISS was a sure thing for getting into the financial industry. It really, really isn't. Is it a possibility? Sure, but you'll have far more difficulty than any of a hundred different courses in Ireland.

MSISS is also a fairly accurate name as course names go, considering the two MSISS grads I know work in dundundun! management systems consultancy on IT projects.

Just out of curiousity, what year are you in?

Dante · 02-05-2012 5:20pm

robobobo wrote: »

With regards to working in Finance after B&C. It's still a possibility, but you would be more geared to developing financial programs as B&C is focused on creating programs for business I believe.

While I agree that MSISS is probably better suited to the financial industry mainly due to its emphasis on statistical and general quantitative-based modules, I'd have disagree with this part. B&C students can also take a number of finance-oriented modules in SF, JS, and SS that are specifically geared towards working in the financial industry, such as introduction to Corporate Finance, Applied Finance, Financial Markets and the Corporate Sector, and International and International Finance & Risk Management. When you combine these with various other complimentary modules such as Financial & Management Accounting, Financial Reporting and Analysis, and International Business and the Global economy etc., B&C students have a wide variety of choice with respect to gearing their degrees towards working directly in the financial sector, and not just as financial program developers.

robobobo · 02-05-2012 6:58pm

DaaaaaaaaaaN wrote: »

B&C students can also take a number of finance-oriented modules in SF, JS, and SS that are specifically geared towards working in the financial industry, such as introduction to Introduction to Corporate Finance, Applied Finance, Financial Markets and the Corporate Sector, and International and International Finance & Risk Management. When you combine these with various other complimentary modules such as Financial & Management Accounting, Financial Reporting and Analysis, and International Business and the Global economy etc., B&C students have a wide variety of choice with respect to gearing their degrees towards working directly in the financial sector, and not just as financial program developers.

That's fair enough then, I'm not completely up to date on the modules that B&C students take later on in their course but it does seem like you can lean more towards that side of things then if you want. B&C does offer more choice in modules that you can choose from as the years go on in comparison to MSISS as well.

@Tragedy I've just finished my first year of MSISS.
As DaaaaaaN has just said, do you not think that MSISS would be quite appropriate for the financial industry if you wanted to head in that direction because of the stats and forecasting skills you learn? I know of several people who have done interns with the likes of Goldman Sachs and Citibank

MSISS is quite a broad degree and is most certainly not just for consultancy if you don't want to go in that direction

Tragedy · 03-05-2012 12:37pm

robobobo wrote: »

.

@Tragedy I've just finished my first year of MSISS.
As DaaaaaaN has just said, do you not think that MSISS would be quite appropriate for the financial industry if you wanted to head in that direction because of the stats and forecasting skills you learn? I know of several people who have done interns with the likes of Goldman Sachs and Citibank

MSISS is quite a broad degree and is most certainly not just for consultancy if you don't want to go in that direction

Not particularly, no. That being said, I'm sure they'd take a MSISS graduate with a first over a BESS grad with a 2.1(unless he had done heavy maths+quants in 4th year). But they'd likely take a B&C grad with a first over a MSISS grad with a 2.1.
On a level playing field, an MSISS grad is going to be miles behind a very large amount of other courses when it comes to suitability and adaptability of course to getting into the financial industry.

TL;DR, if you want to end up working in the financial industry: Decide what kind of roles and then pick a maths heavy course regardless.

MSISS or computer science and business

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