Fitness to be added to the 2015 Leaving Certificate Curriculum

Mossess

OK, not yet, but would you be happy if Fitness was to be added to the 2015 Leaving Certificate Curriculum?
If your level of fitness was to assessed during the year as a leaving cert subject would you be happy? It could be worth the same points as any other subject regarding college entry.

Obviously it wouldn’t suit some students in the same way higher level applied maths wouldn’t suit everyone. It would however go a little way towards helping reduce Irelands ever increasing bulge, which down the line may have an impact on the number of people who are relying on our health service. Just a thought.
Would you do it for the leaving?

Canard

It has absolutely no impact on doing well in college so god no.
"Didnt get into college coz I'm too fat"

Lena137

I wouldn't do it. Suffering through a game of soccer for 40 mintues of P.E. is crazy as it is. Maybe if there was different sports each week or so, like rounders one week, basketball the next week, it would be good. But being examined on the way it is at our school at the moment would be torture! I don't think it would make a difference. Some people still wouldn't participate in P.E. I heard someone say before that they were on about doing this until they saw some of the facilities available in many schools and it just wasn't possible. Would they make it compulsary? Because that wouldn't be fair to people who have an illness that prevents them from taking part. Everyone knows they should exercise to be healthy just as everyone knows smoking is unhealthy. You can't force people to change.

In short, if there were varied sports and there was different levels to take into account peoples different abilities, it might be a good idea. But I don't think it would make much of a difference.

Mossess

I thought about the illness aspect as well, and it being unfair. And some people are naturally Big Boned. But then, what about people who are not so bright? Is it fair that they do Physics or Irish? but I don't know about making it compulsory, choice is always best.

I would stick to fitness though and testing during the year. The reason I'd say fitness is that Everyone can be fit, but not great at certain sports. So there would be no point in testing football skills for example, as I myself wouldn't hit a wall with a ball.
And the reason I'd say test it through out the year is that anyone can get injured at any stage, so my checking it at different times you can get an average. Just seems a little fairer?

Any money invested in school equipment at this stage will be saved 100 times over when the kids reach the age of 35 and they don't have a multitude of weight related illnesses, that they will carry with them for the rest of there lives.

Another positive thing would be that it might allow people to be more rounded (not physically round), in that it would be an actual advantage to take part in sports.

And of course, can you imagine, in a few years we may even be sending more people to compete in the Olympics.

doyler101

it's only going to be like 20% practical like it's about learning health stuff and all i imagine

doyler101

i would do it i like sport the same way creative people do music

Jimbobjoeyman

Wish it was in this year.
Would be a handy A1 for me.
Could have dropped history

Gumbi

Patchy~ wrote: »

It has absolutely no impact on doing well in college so god no.
"Didnt get into college coz I'm too fat"

Flawed logic. Would it be any different saying "Didn't get into college - poor grasp of English"

Personally, I fail to see much of a difference between the typical "academic" subjects, and one such as was mentioned above. I think it would be an excellent idea.

Owen_S

IMO it's a terrible idea, even as a non-compulsory subject. The curriculum would probably just help spread the common misinformation abundant in the fitness world. Also, who would teach this? Our incompetent PE teachers struggle to teach the practical aspect of subject properly as it is, adding it to the Leaving Cert would be a disaster.

Mossess

Owen_S wrote: »

IMO it's a terrible idea, even as a non-compulsory subject. The curriculum would probably just help spread the common misinformation abundant in the fitness world. Also, who would teach this? Our incompetent PE teachers struggle to teach the practical aspect of subject properly as it is, adding it to the Leaving Cert would be a disaster.

What is the misinformation in the fitness world? Seriously I don’t know.

I’d have to disagree with you completely regarding it being a disaster. PE as it is at the moment is merely a nod in the direction of the concept that kids need to be active. If there was a structured two year cycle prepping for the leaving then perhaps the standard of PE teachers would surely improve. In saying that I’d like to clarify that I don’t think they are incompetent. When I was in school though PE consisted of a double class on a Friday. Never did the same thing twice in a row. Never had gym equipment. But that was years ago.

plein de force

well i've already done the leaving but given a chance to do the fitness thing back then, not a chance i'd do it. I'd rather do a different academic subject such as a language etc. and do what i did and keep my fitness for outside of school. And the approach to PE all throughout my secondary school life was, here go play football for an hour.

Canard

Gumbi wrote: »

Flawed logic. Would it be any different saying "Didn't get into college - poor grasp of English"

Personally, I fail to see much of a difference between the typical "academic" subjects, and one such as was mentioned above. I think it would be an excellent idea.

Yes, it would be completely different in exactly the same way as saying "didnt get into engineering - failed honours maths". Fair enough if you wanted to be a fitness instructor maybe you should have a test similar to the HPAT, but English is important for college because theres a lot of learning involved - fitness doesnt really impact that.

doyler101

in fairness you guys it's only going to be 20% practical i've heard, that means someone with an illness wouldn't do any worse in it really.
put it to you this way if i study leaving cert music 50% goes to practical and i can't sing or play an instrument, so it's no more difficult or unfair than any other subject

reznov

A minuscule amount of attention is portioned to fitness in the education system. This is very disheartening as health is above education. Your brain is nothing without a functioning body. Certainly, "this is the education system though!" is the predictable response, but how are adolescence expected to engage in sport if they are not guided into it by the institution in which they a significant number of hours in daily? Several countries globally integrate sport into education, even grading students' performance. Soviet countries especially emphasised the coupling of sport with education. Chinese pupils run daily before class commences. Is that so harmful? As with all subjects, it can be isolated as an option. Why discourage rewarding students for their fitness achievements, as well as academic? At least one subject would offer vitality, fitness, and health in the endless points race. 625 points is not an excuse to ruin your body. Some people I am acquainted with have not spent even a month on their body in 18 years of their life. It's quite depressing considering we originated from monkeys swinging branch to branch, maintaining an active lifestyle.

Jimbobjoeyman

If you actually had some illness that would effect your performance I'm sure there would be some compromises made much like how student with a learning difficulty can have certain compromises made in written tests like english.

But if your just unfit that's a different story and in all fairness that's your own fault.
And that's the only reason I can see most people being against something like this.

Really wish it was in this year :pac:

J_E

There are already enough issues with self-esteem and non-interest in sport with some students, so pushing this onto them is only furthering problems already there. It might suit some people fine, but what about the people who don't want to participate?

Zhavey

Cydoniac wrote: »

There are already enough issues with self-esteem and non-interest in sport with some students, so pushing this onto them is only furthering problems already there. It might suit some people fine, but what about the people who don't want to participate?

In all fairness you could put this argument forward for someone who has very deep problems/little interest with Irish/Maths/English - despite how hard it is, while they can get help, they still have to do it. I would imagine this courses aims would be to give confidence and a clear direction on how to live a healthier (and happier) life and help tackle self-esteem issues.

I would be for fitness on the Leaving Cert to tackle some of the obesity problem in Ireland. It wouldn't come easy for myself, but I'd want to better myself to get a high grade and points, and thankfully would in turn lead to better health.

Gumbi

Honestly, some of the proposed arguments against this are laughable. "What if someone's sick, that would be so unfair!" Really? Did you really just say that. Apply 3 seconds thought to that statement and you'll see how ridiculous it is.

As for the person above who essentially said that "Some people really don't want to be pushed into that". Really? And the same doesn't apply to any other subject?

Owen_S

First of all, perhaps the wording in the title is a little vague, but 'fitness' is too broad an area to cover even the extreme basics most aspects involved. Even complex subjects such as physics or biology are looked into with at least a certain amount of depth. From personal experience, learning the basics of cardio, weightlifting (for hypertrophy specifically), the basics of nutrition and supplements is more time consuming than any higher level leaving cert subject I've studied, and that's only a couple of areas which would fall under 'fitness'.

All this not even considering the fact that just about everything in the fitness world is constantly being updated and even debated, with scientific research often presented to back up both sides of arguments. To say that an answer on a written paper is correct or incorrect would be very difficult.

Mossess wrote: »

What is the misinformation in the fitness world? Seriously I don’t know.

Consider just about everything you have ever heard about fitness from anybody in person, or even from mainstream media outlets as partly or wholly incorrect. A lot of the usual stuff accepted as facts from poorly informed people(i.e. just about everybody, even in gyms), including many PE teachers, which I've seen even from my limited experience with them, are actually just common misconceptions.

This topic should be posted on the fitness forum here, since there would be more people there with good knowledge and opinions on the subject, as we haven't really had an 'expert's opinion' in here.

reznov

Ah, the "someone sick" argument. What if I am dyslexic? There's a caveat that affects reading, and subsequently all language related education. Thankfully, we have exceptions. I wouldn't excuse 90% of people from taking part in sport as a subject.

Self esteem issues are solved through improving your body shape!

Fitness, if it is to be implemented as an option a number of years down the line, should consist of non-weight based exercises, weight lifting (for older classes) and last, however not least, cardio. Assessment would be problematic perhaps! Foundation level Fitness anyone? :pac:

paddykell

No. Absolutely under no circumstances! I hated PE when I had to do it for Junior Cert. I'm not overweight, I love to walk and run and cycle, but I hate sports. Introducing fitness for Leaving Cert students would be a bad idea in my opinion. Perhaps it wouldn't be any harm to have it as an optional subject that you could get points in, but it'd have to be very tough so that only people who were genuinely good at it would do it.

Gumbi

paddykell wrote: »

No. Absolutely under no circumstances! I hated PE when I had to do it for Junior Cert. I'm not overweight, I love to walk and run and cycle, but I hate sports. Introducing fitness for Leaving Cert students would be a bad idea in my opinion. Perhaps it wouldn't be any harm to have it as an optional subject that you could get points in, but it'd have to be very tough so that only people who were genuinely good at it would do it.

The same stuff again! All that you have said, the same can apply to any subject. It could easily apply to Irish, for example, for someone else.

Mossess

I don’t think that anyone would seriously argue that being fit and healthy is a bad thing. I’m sure that people might argue that they don’t want to do it as a subject and from reading the posts I’d have to say that my thoughts on it have slightly changed.

I would make it compulsory for the junior cert and optional for the leaving. We have to face a few facts, We are an obese nation. Kids are getting heavier and heavier for lots of reasons. The knock on effects in 20 years’ time will be that these same heavy kids will be cursed with life threating diseases caused directly with being overweight. Cancer and diabetes are the first things that come to mind.

Another plus would be that it could cut down on the numbers of kids smoking. Think about it. If you have the ability to get a high score in fitness and high points towards a college place, would you light up? I smoked while in 5th and 6th year. If fitness was a leaving cert subject I wouldn’t have smoked, and as such I wouldn’t have smoked during college.

As a country we cannot afford to not have it as a leaving cert subject.

Canard

Gumbi wrote: »

The same stuff again! All that you have said, the same can apply to any subject. It could easily apply to Irish, for example, for someone else.

I'm the exact same as paddykell - I'm not overweight and I hate sport but I dont mind exercise, and hated PE for the three years I had to do it. It could easily apply to Irish - in fact it really does, personally I love French and I dont mind Irish but I really resent being forced to take a dead language to such a high level, its useless. Thats bad enough, imagine being forced to take PE to LC? I know its not as useless as Irish but for a lot of people it'd be even more tedious.

Zhavey

If you are comparing the 'dead language' argument to fitfulness, at least fitness could apply to your whole life and you could take important life skills that would lead to much healthier life. Its much more practical than having the ability to use Irish. Same could be said for maths, its boring and tedious - you still have to do it and from it you gain life long skills that apply to an endless list of things, why should fitness be excluded?

Some of the replies in this thread is the core reason why it should be added - to get rid of this 'fear'/dread of PE and getting/maintaining fitness.

Canard

Zhavey wrote: »

If you are comparing the 'dead language' argument to fitfulness, at least fitness could apply to your whole life and you could take important life skills that would lead to much healthier life. Its much more practical than having the ability to use Irish. Same could be said for maths, its boring and tedious - you still have to do it and from it you gain life long skills that apply to an endless list of things, why should fitness be excluded?

Some of the replies in this thread is the core reason why it should be added - to get rid of this 'fear'/dread of PE and getting/maintaining fitness.

I disagree, I learned very little of any relevance in P.E except vaguely the rules of football/soccer which I will absolutely never use again. The one good thing I took from it was where certain bones and muscles are - thats it. In the same way that maths is tedious and a lot of people would be all for it becoming optional, I find PE tedious and would want it to stay optional. The biggest argument people seem to be making is that too many people are overweight - why should healthy but more academic than sporty people have to do it then?

Making it compulsory wont detract from the dread of it, you either like it or you dont. I hated it. I can see the benefits but they dont convince me. Some schools give students in 5th/6th year the choice of a PE class if they want it or a study class if they dont want it. I think thats the best way to do it.

AlmightyDublin

Patchy~ wrote: »

I'm the exact same as paddykell - I'm not overweight and I hate sport but I dont mind exercise, and hated PE for the three years I had to do it. It could easily apply to Irish - in fact it really does, personally I love French and I dont mind Irish but I really resent being forced to take a dead language to such a high level, its useless. Thats bad enough, imagine being forced to take PE to LC? I know its not as useless as Irish but for a lot of people it'd be even more tedious.

Ní aontaim le é sin :P Is é dróch íomha den teanga a bhfuil ag cruthu an saghas smaoineamh sin Ba cóir go mbeidh daltaí ag dul go dtí scoileanna Gaeilge suas agus síos na tíre
On topic, would love to see fitness as a subject

anirishlad

Cant believe theres actually people complaining about going to school and exercising :pac:

blatantrereg

doyler101 wrote: »

in fairness you guys it's only going to be 20% practical i've heard, that means someone with an illness wouldn't do any worse in it really.
put it to you this way if i study leaving cert music 50% goes to practical and i can't sing or play an instrument, so it's no more difficult or unfair than any other subject

I think it's a good idea to teach and assess it as an academic subject. An education on how to be healthy is beneficial to everyone. If it's assessed in an academic manner then it fits in well with academic exams.

I think it might be controversial in a different way to just its inclusion. The content might be too. People often follow fad diets and regimes and strongly disagree with established ideas about fitness and a diet. For example wholewheat is demonised by a lot of people now, and a very high protein/low carbohydrate diet is recommended - which is directly contrary to what most government agencies suggest. [Personally I agree with the government agencies on that example].

Food is a bit political in nature no matter what though. There are commerical, ethical, religious, cultural and pop cultural influences on ideas about what sorts of diets should be recommended. The key might be to deal with things at a lower level than recommending diets at all. Examine the basic facts instead. Like that eating meat is evil and dirty and makes you smell.

Mossess

In fairness I think the curriculum could be worked out by experts over time so I wouldn’t worry about that. As for the physical side I’d be into promoting a lot of exercise. For everyone. It may mean joining a football team and that training may be part of a class, or a running club, but all the core basic cardio could be done during class time.
And the funny thing is that many people would right now hate the idea of having to exercise for 30 minutes a day because they are completely unfit and possibly even incapable of running a mile if their lives depended on it. Those are the people who should be exercising for 30 minutes a day because their lives do depend on it.

Below is a list of 20 different things which are on the increase in this country, and the increase is linked to being overweight. If your happy being overweight randomly pick 5 items from the list. If you were told that there is an 80% chance that you will get those 5 things during your life time would you still be happy? If you could switch those statistics around and reduce that risk to 20% by exercising would you?

1. Diabetes which is a disorder where the pancreas is not producing enough or sometimes not any insulin. Diabetes can lead to a whole host of other medical issues and obesity is one of the main causes due to the body having excess glucose due to overeating.
2. Cancer has many different forms and types and many of them could be prevented with more attention to eating healthy and avoiding obesity.
3. Congestive Heart Failure is a condition in which the heart can’t pump enough blood to the body’s other organs.
4. Enlarged Heart is another heart condition where the muscle of the heart become larger due to being overworked which naturally happens if you are overweight.
5. Pulmonary Embolism is a sometimes fatal blockage of an artery. Being overweight causes most people to reduce activity and after time lack of activity can result in an embolism.
6. Gastro esophageal Reflux Disease means that stomach acid and juices flow from the stomach back up into the esophagus. It is common in overweight people.
7. Fatty Liver Disease is a reversible condition where large pockets of fat accumulate in liver cells. Fatty liver can be considered a single disease that occurs worldwide in those with excessive alcohol intake and those who are obese.
8. Hernia is caused when the hole in the diaphragm weakens and enlarges.
9. Erectile Dysfunction is the inability to develop or maintain an erection which can be caused by a medical problem due to obesity or a psychological effect.
10. Urinary Incontinence is the inability to control ones urine and is frequently associated with obesity, weak bladder and pelvic floor muscles
11. Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome is when cysts develop in your ovaries. These can burst causing even further problems.
12. Chronic Renal Failure meaning the kidneys fail to work is a much greater risk to those that are overweight or obese.
13. Lymph edema is a condition that occurs from a damaged or dysfunctional lymphatic system sometimes caused by people suffering from obesity actually crushing the lymphatics.
14. Cellulitis is clinically a spreading infection involving both the dermis and subcutaneous tissues due poor lymph flow caused by obesity.
15. Stroke is a lack of blood supply as the body has to work harder when you are obese.
16. Pickwickian Syndrome is mainly characterized by sleep apnea due to obesity placing an excessive load on the pulmonary system.
17. Depression is a condition where a person feels extremely sad all the time. Even to the point of being suicidal. This can be greatly enhanced for someone that has a weight problem.
18. Osteoarthritis is a clinical syndrome in which low-grade inflammation results in pain in the joints, caused by abnormal wearing of the cartilage oftentimes due to obesity.
19. Gout occurs when uric acid accumulates in the blood. Nerve endings then become irritated causing extreme pain made worse by carrying extra weight.
20. Gallbladder Disease commonly affects overweight people as a result of high blood cholesterol levels and causes gall stones.

If everything went well, and 3 years of exercise actually had an effect whereby you had a class of healthy students do you not think that there would be a good uptake for the leaving cert?

Mossess

AlmightyDublin wrote: »

Ní aontaim le é sin :P Is é dróch íomha den teanga a bhfuil ag cruthu an saghas smaoineamh sin Ba cóir go mbeidh daltaí ag dul go dtí scoileanna Gaeilge suas agus síos na tíre
On topic, would love to see fitness as a subject

Maidir leis an teanga marbh Gaeilge riamh, thuig mé é ar scoil. Bhain mé triail as ranganna grind, ainm tú é. Anois tá mo mhac ag iarraidh mé focal i nGaeilge agus níl a fhios agam an freagra. Mar sin, tá mé ag dul chun iarracht a dhéanamh arís.
Ná thabhairt suas, ní stop a rá liom.

J_E

Fitness should be taught as a part of PE rather than a whole subject to itself. It doesn't make sense to have two subjects that could easily be integrated. In fact, we learned about body types, different types of activity, etc. in our PE class.