ICT Action Plan

keryl

Hi

Did anyone see this announced. Seems like a good idea for once, the fact that they offer placement is only positive and the ability to stay on Social Welfare is encouraging for a lot.

I couldn't find the institutions involved though.

scunermac

All the institutions involved are here...

http://www.bluebrick.ie/ICTSkills/

and some more info here...

http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2012/01/over-750-new-places-available-on-graduate-skills-conversion-programmes-as-part-of-joint-government-industry-ict-action-plan-2/?cat=3

I'm not sure what to think of it yet. There isn't a lot of information out there about it yet.

MysticalRain

I think it's a perfect example of the government applying a brute force/quick fix solution to a problem. The government needs to focus on quality, not quantity. I can't see how trying to flood the market with a bunch of people with an arts degree and a H Dip in computing will benefit the industry in the long term. That was done 10-15 years ago and it ended up diluting the overall quality of graduates because a lot of people joined the industry who were never cut out for it in the first place. Employers are a lot more picky about graduates nowadays, so many of these people will struggle to get jobs when they finish their courses.

The main reason why the Irish education system is not producing enough ICT people is because there is far too much time spent on rote learning and teaching stuff like religion and Irish, and not enough time spent on teaching maths, science and computers. If the government wants an education system that produces lots of computer geeks, then they need to focus on exposing kids to computers at an early age. That means teaching computers as a subject in school, like they do in other countries (I'm talking about real computer science here, not boring kids senseless by teaching them secretarial stuff in MS Word/Excel). That is a long term project, and things are not going to change overnight.

boobar

I think it's a good start to be honest and a great opportunity for graduates who are struggling to find employment in their field.

Having said that I believe more could be done also in providing funding for people who want to get certified in programming e.g. Java. These wouldn't cost the earth but would be very useful qualifications to have.

Dman001

Is it possible for Undergrads to apply for this, who maybe graduating this year??

bobbytables

MysticalRain wrote: »

I think it's a perfect example of the government applying a brute force/quick fix solution to a problem. The government needs to focus on quality, not quantity. I can't see how trying to flood the market with a bunch of people with an arts degree and a H Dip in computing will benefit the industry in the long term. That was done 10-15 years ago and it ended up diluting the overall quality of graduates because a lot of people joined the industry who were never cut out for it in the first place. Employers are a lot more picky about graduates nowadays, so many of these people will struggle to get jobs when they finish their courses.

The main reason why the Irish education system is not producing enough ICT people is because there is far too much time spent on rote learning and teaching stuff like religion and Irish, and not enough time spent on teaching maths, science and computers. If the government wants an education system that produces lots of computer geeks, then they need to focus on exposing kids to computers at an early age. That means teaching computers as a subject in school, like they do in other countries (I'm talking about real computer science here, not boring kids senseless by teaching them secretarial stuff in MS Word/Excel). That is a long term project, and things are not going to change overnight.

I couldn't agree more with all of this. My parents nurtured my interest in technology in the 80s. All teachers in both primary & secondary school bar maybe 1 or 2 undermined my interest & on one occasion in secondary school I was given detention for asking the teacher to explain what loops were while they got us to copy lines of BASIC out of a text book. Granted for that 1 hour each month it was the most exciting time I had in secondary.

Thankfully all that changed when I went to college & the fact I had already taught myself a few programming languages was aot only advantageous, but appreciated.

The goverment & education system in this country is so far detatched from ICT, they might as well do a Medicine Action Plan to fast track doctors in to hospital wards while they're at it.

Moocawn

MysticalRain wrote: »

I think it's a perfect example of the government applying a brute force/quick fix solution to a problem. The government needs to focus on quality, not quantity. I can't see how trying to flood the market with a bunch of people with an arts degree and a H Dip in computing will benefit the industry in the long term. That was done 10-15 years ago and it ended up diluting the overall quality of graduates because a lot of people joined the industry who were never cut out for it in the first place. Employers are a lot more picky about graduates nowadays, so many of these people will struggle to get jobs when they finish their courses.

The main reason why the Irish education system is not producing enough ICT people is because there is far too much time spent on rote learning and teaching stuff like religion and Irish, and not enough time spent on teaching maths, science and computers. If the government wants an education system that produces lots of computer geeks, then they need to focus on exposing kids to computers at an early age. That means teaching computers as a subject in school, like they do in other countries (I'm talking about real computer science here, not boring kids senseless by teaching them secretarial stuff in MS Word/Excel). That is a long term project, and things are not going to change overnight.

Just wondering, do you think these courses are a waste of time? I've a masters in town planning and I'm very tempted to apply for one of these or else go down the GIS route. Do you think the people out of them will be unemployable?

MysticalRain

Moocawn wrote: »

Just wondering, do you think these courses are a waste of time? I've a masters in town planning and I'm very tempted to apply for one of these or else go down the GIS route. Do you think the people out of them will be unemployable?

Put yourself in the employers shoes: if you had the choice between a graduate with a 4 year degree, or one with a 12-18 month crash course in computing which barely touches on the core concepts, which one would you pick? You might be more attractive to employers if a) you had a previous degree in semi-related field like engineering, maths or science, or b) have a personal interest in computers to begin with e.g. you contribute to open source projects or write iPhone apps in your spare time.

If you don't have a genuine love for technology, and are only doing it because you heard there were "lots of jobs in IT", then you are probably better off looking for some other line of work.

Also bear in mind that there may be a double dip recession looming. So if that happens, the labour market may be a lot tighter for graduates by the time you finish the course.

scunermac

MysticalRain wrote: »

I think it's a perfect example of the government applying a brute force/quick fix solution to a problem. The government needs to focus on quality, not quantity. I can't see how trying to flood the market with a bunch of people with an arts degree and a H Dip in computing will benefit the industry in the long term. That was done 10-15 years ago and it ended up diluting the overall quality of graduates because a lot of people joined the industry who were never cut out for it in the first place. Employers are a lot more picky about graduates nowadays, so many of these people will struggle to get jobs when they finish their courses.

The main reason why the Irish education system is not producing enough ICT people is because there is far too much time spent on rote learning and teaching stuff like religion and Irish, and not enough time spent on teaching maths, science and computers. If the government wants an education system that produces lots of computer geeks, then they need to focus on exposing kids to computers at an early age. That means teaching computers as a subject in school, like they do in other countries (I'm talking about real computer science here, not boring kids senseless by teaching them secretarial stuff in MS Word/Excel). That is a long term project, and things are not going to change overnight.

Does this seem like something that could help to improve things for our future workforce? I think so.

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/25654-digsch2010/

BostonB

MysticalRain wrote: »

Put yourself in the employers shoes: if you had the choice between a graduate with a 4 year degree, or one with a 12-18 month crash course in computing...

They'll hire a contractor with years of experience and moan they can't get staff.

But as you say the more you've done, even your own projects, the better your chances. That said if you are interested you'd probably be doing your own projects anyway.

Jbpc

I completed masters in accounting about 18 months back but have gotten nowhere with it and have became a bit disillusioned with the whole thing. I thought this looked like a perfect opportunity for me to get my career in a much needed different path without completely dismissing the skills I've already attained. The fact that there are no fees, the possibility of retaining social welfare and a 6 month placement at the end of it all also sounded very beneficial.

My only problem came when reading the negative sounding posts on here, and i'm now unsure whether this might be the right option to take? I got the impression from previous posts that its only useful for those with previous experience in ICT and a love for technology. I do have an interest in technology, computers, games industry, etc but have no experience in ICT like personal projects etc. Does that mean its not for me and I would be wasting my time? Anyone have any advice regarding this.

BostonB

I don't understand your question. How is a personal project advanced?

There no quick fixes, you climb Everest in little steps. Not massive leaps.

Jbpc

BostonB wrote: »

I don't understand your question. How is a personal project advanced?

Sorry, I misused advanced.

But basically, i'm going into this with no real knowledge of real ICT education like writing codes or developing any software or anything like that i.e. what I would call advanced . However, I would like to learn, do you think this would be a suitable way to do that to a good standard where I may get employed afterwards?

BostonB

Its the first rung certainly.

nicmcs

I come from an architectural technology background with an interest in computers, and recently got left go from my job.
I've applied for the cloud computing and mobile software development in CIT.
I think these kind of courses would be a benefit to people in my situation.

If not I'm off to canada.

Jbpc

nicmcs wrote: »

I come from an architectural technology background with an interest in computers, and recently got left go from my job.
I've applied for the cloud computing and mobile software development in CIT.
I think these kind of courses would be a benefit to people in my situation.

If not I'm off to canada.

Good for you. I really do think its a good option for those like you and I who are unemployed and seeking to use this time to upskill and maybe take their career in a different direction. Although I have some reservations i'm thinking of going for it too, DIT in my case, fingers crossed we're successful...if not i'm off to Canada or Oz too