Mil Dots - does everyone use them?? Help

Fiachra cork

Hay lads, me again, discovering the agonies and intestacies of a beginner shooter. I picked up an air rifle just before Christmas and have been havin a bit of a laugh. As predicted by some, it has also been fairly frustrating at times as I keep missing things. The gun came with a Gamo scope ( I know) - basically does the job and I can zero it handy enough but.... There are no mil dots and I'm finding it virtually impossible to compensate for targets outside of the zeroed range. Is this normal?

I also have nothing to gauge distances - don't really want to be spending money on range finders (don't have it anyhow) as I think this shouldn't be necessary. A well measured 25meters is fine for plinking in the garden - (I mean authorised firing range), but when your out in a field, I'm finding it really hard to gauge distances - any tips welcome.

Hunter21

As I also play alot of golf and pitch and putt in the summer it helps greatly with judging distances while shooting. I know this isn't practical for everyone or everyone's cup of tea.
I got my first rifle a few days ago but been using mates rifles in their company for ages, the key is practice practice and more practice at different ranges.

Also another point to note is how wind affects shots. A 5mph wind could play tricks with ammo. Learn your ground well and especially prevailing winds.

I wouldn't be concerned with using mill dots on an air rifle excePt for windage.

Witcher

Go out and find a point in a field, guess the distance and then step it out. Keep doing it and you'll get your eye in and you'll be able to gauge distances better. It'll be trial and error to get it but everyone has to do it:)

Fiachra cork

Thanks lads - been doing the practice and don't intend to give up! Its just so frustrating when you miss things that seem so obviously easy.... Will persevere.

Vegeta

Fiachra cork wrote: »

Thanks lads - been doing the practice and don't intend to give up! Its just so frustrating when you miss things that seem so obviously easy.... Will persevere.

Welcome to the world of hunting

Hunting implies an element of chance, you might be successful or you might not. If you hit your target every-time then they'd call it shopping or something.

If you can't afford a range finder get to know your land really well. Walk it out and keep a mental note (or record them in a note book) of distances between bushes, ditches and other landmarks. If in a farmyard then walk between sheds and note the distance, count how many blocks high a building is etc.

Then practice a lot to figure out how much hold over you need in those situations. Go out on windy days and see how it effects your pellets.

At least the ammo for practice is cheap

extremetaz

For air rifle distances, if you get a scope with parallax adjustment on it (side wheel preferably) and decent mag, then you can use the combination of high mag and the parallax to estimate range as well.

As for the mildots - they are very useful - particularly if you're using a .22 (.177 is a hell of a lot flatter so it's not as critical).

I've a Hawke Nite-eye 6.5-24x50 AOIR - has mildots and a parallax ring. I shoot at mag 10 most of the time, but I'll crank up to 24 when I'm rangefinding, then pull back when I have my range. These scopes can be had for as little as €190 if you look around.

However, as has been mentioned - wind is the number one influence with air - even very slight gusts can blow a shot well off target. Getting that right is just down to shedloads of practice and occasionaly a little bit of luck.

session savage

Welcome to the world of shooting
First off dont worry about missing shots its all part of it. I remember when I started out I was the same. Frustrated that I didnt know the tricks of how to guage distance etc. and compensate for drop.... thing is its all down to practice. And thats the beauty of an air rifle they are so cheap to run you can fire away for hours on end.
I started off with just plain crosshairs and to be fair I did perfectly well with them, dividing the distance between the thick bar and the hair into 1/4s or 5ths or whatever to allow for bullet drop. Just keep practicing with targets set at various ranges and itll become second nature.
To get used to guaging ranges do as blay said only do it everywhere. Guess distances everywhere you walk and step it out.
If you do want a scope with mils look into hawke optics. They have scopes with MAP (multi aim point) reticules. Not mil dots but they have markers that work in conjunction with free software that calculates bullet drop and tells you what distance each dot will represent (they also have mildots and the software will work with any of the reticles)
Hope I made sense, the young lad had me up at 4.30 and I'm falling away with tiredness. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Fiachra cork

Thanks lads - got out in the field today and measured out 25 & 50 meters. There was no wind so ws fairly perfect for practice. I spent so much of my practice time (about 45 minutes) doing my best to zero in at 25 meters. I'm lying down and resting the rifle (in my hand lightly) on a hump of ground so everything is dead steady. The very first challenge for a beginner, I feel is actually keeping the rifle steady enough to take a shot. Anyway - I'm literally aiming for a small dot in the middle of a circle around the diameter of a tin can - about the size of a thumb tack - I find its literally hit and miss but groupings are reasonable( I think). I'm willing to persevere with the scope I have for a while although I found that when I moved the target to 50 meters, I couldn't see it all that well - it was a bit small! My scope is X4 magnification.

Another query is how powerful the rifle is? Is there a simple/ rough way of testing the power of the gun? For example - I hit a food can at 50 meters but didn't penetrate (its cut through them like butter at 25 meters) - this has me slightly worried as I am after bunnies at the end of the day.

After all my typing I'll take your advice and practice those distances for a few weeks. The hold over is definitely an eye opener!

Fiachra cork

extremetaz wrote: »

I've a Hawke Nite-eye 6.5-24x50 AOIR - has mildots and a parallax ring. I shoot at mag 10 most of the time, but I'll crank up to 24 when I'm rangefinding, then pull back when I have my range. These scopes can be had for as little as €190 if you look around.

Yeah - its a.22 - I'll do a whole lot more practice before I invest but have you by any chance come across the JSR scopes? Apparently some of them are made by leapers and the price is really attractive?

extremetaz

Haven't any experience with the JSR's I'm afraid no - but from what I have played with, most anything in the cheaper end of the scale is of similar quality.

Don't go too high with the mag - all you'll see is shake.

As for your groups, I take it it's a break barrel springer you're using?

They can be tough to learn on - I'd have about a 65% hit rate at a bean tin at 50 meters, standing (so pretty crap really), with the auld boys HW90 and it's a gas ram (easier) - he on the other hand will knock out a 2" group, everytime, at the same range and will tell you that the rifle can do better.

My own machine is a HW100 - so I'm entirely spoiled by the absence of recoil and its beautiful trigger. (It's a complete cop out. )

Your technique sound right with the front hand (supported in the hand but not "gripped" etc..). Be aware of your trigger hand though - you shouldn't be steering the rifle with it (you should be able to release the hand completely without your point of aim moving). Take the trigger up slowly and follow through after the shot paying very close attention to where your scope is pointed at that stage - that will tell you more than anything else. You should still be on your point of aim. If you're not, then it's you that's out, not the rifle.

As for the energy - your local club may have a chronograph, or you can buy your own for about €60 if you look around. You need about 7ft.lbs at point of impact to take a bunny with a headshot if I'm correctly informed.

Hawke do a great ballistic package to compliment their scopes which will give you drop rates for a given caliber of a given weight fired at a given speed. Stroelok is also great if you've got a smartphone (available free in the markets). For the record, the ballistic coefficient for most air pellets is aroundabout 0.02 (lower for lighter rounds, rising to about 0.028 for the heaviest rounds).

The calculators are no substitute for plotting your own ballistics though, but they'll give you a good idea.

Hawks BRC software

Fiachra cork

extremetaz wrote: »

As for your groups, I take it it's a break barrel springer you're using?

I'm using a HW 97K - so its a top loader - I've no excuse!!

Will persevere......

extremetaz

Fiachra cork wrote: »

I'm using a HW 97K - so its a top loader - I've no excuse!!

Will persevere......

Don't be too hard on yourself - there's very little in accuracy between a good break barrel and a top loader. Bottom line, it's still a springer so there's still significant enough recoil to be dealt with ( I'd be as ****e with it as with the '90! ).

Just bear in mind what I said about the trigger hand and follow through - those two points alone should bring you on a bit.

Fiachra cork

Fiachra cork wrote: »

I hit a food can at 50 meters but didn't penetrate (its cut through them like butter at 25 meters)

Got another opportunity today - things are improving. I set the can on a little stake to keep it upright - pellets went right through it! I reckon I just caught the side of it the other day.

Fiachra cork

extremetaz wrote: »

Don't be too hard on yourself - there's very little in accuracy between a good break barrel and a top loader. Bottom line, it's still a springer so there's still significant enough recoil to be dealt with ( I'd be as ****e with it as with the '90! ).

Just bear in mind what I said about the trigger hand and follow through - those two points alone should bring you on a bit.

Thanks extremetaz - taking a lot on board at the minute - for example I now know that 25 meters is approximately 33 steps! Not exactly precision but... Lying down, I got to hit the can at 50 meters no problem - A food tin of course is a tad bigger than a rabbits head and I was lying down. I'm definitely getting the idea so will persevere - thanks again for the advice.